how can i make SA against opponents with uncanny dodge? No feint or two weapon feint chain. Dirty trick (blinded) works against uncanny dodge & improved uncanny dodge?
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According to the PRD, Uncanny dodge:
cannot be caught flat-footed, lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible, still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action.
Improved Uncanny Dodge:
This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.
So, you can SA opponents with UD and IUD by flanking, and in the case of IUD being 4 more levels of rogue than they are. Feint also works. While Blinded isn't specifically mentioned, common sense says that not being able to see someone (Invisibility) is the same as not being able to see someone (Blinded).
According to the PRD, Uncanny dodge:
cannot be caught flat-footed, lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible, still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action.Improved Uncanny Dodge:
This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.So, you can SA opponents with UD and IUD by flanking, and in the case of IUD being 4 more levels of rogue than they are. Feint also works. While Blinded isn't specifically mentioned, common sense says that not being able to see someone (Invisibility) is the same as not being able to see someone (Blinded).
Are you sure? I find this thread:
“No no no, no no, just no! 3rd grade assumptions like that are what break the game. NO WHERE does it say when Blinded treat everyone as if they're Invisible. You wanting to treat it that way is your call but that is NOT RAW or RAI, just you trying to 'simplify' things by throwing around clearly defined words/conditions you see as 'the same', if I'm granted a +4 Bonus to avoid being tripped that is NOT a bonus against Bull-rush or similar attacks because 'being knocked prone is like being Tripped hahaha'
nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible.
IF THE ATTACKER IS INVISIBLE, NOT if the attacker is in-perceivable to you, if you're blinded, if you're stunned, etc. it SPECIFICALLY mentions being Blinded, as in, "here's a case where you should loose DEX to AC but now you don't" and that's what it does.”
According to PRD:
He cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does he lose his Dexterity bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible.
NOT
and does not lose the Dexterity bonus to the AC “EVEN” if the attacking opponent is Invisible.
there is a small difference
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Are you sure? I find this thread:
“No no no, no no, just no! 3rd grade assumptions like that are what break the game. NO WHERE does it say when Blinded treat everyone as if they're Invisible. You wanting to treat it that way is your call but that is NOT RAW or RAI, just you trying to 'simplify' things by throwing around clearly defined words/conditions you see as 'the same', if I'm granted a +4 Bonus to avoid being tripped that is NOT a bonus against Bull-rush or similar attacks because 'being knocked prone is like being Tripped hahaha'
nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible.
IF THE ATTACKER IS INVISIBLE, NOT if the attacker is in-perceivable to you, if you're blinded, if you're stunned, etc. it SPECIFICALLY mentions being Blinded, as in, "here's a case where you should loose DEX to AC but now you don't" and that's what it does.”
Okay, comparing a sincere answer to that of a 3rd grader's is exactly the kind of immature 3rd grade response that you should avoid if you want anyone to take you seriously. My knee-jerk response is to disagree with you just because of your tone.
With that said, if you're going Rules-As-Written then Uncanny Dodge does not help you against being blinded. And yes, there is actually an argument to be made that Uncanny Dodge shouldn't help when you're blinded. Being unable to see is very different in scale than facing off against one invisible attacker.
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The reason why many people treat Blinded characters as perceiving everyone else as Invisible, is because the conditions share the same bonus/penalty to Attack/AC and negation of Dex-to-AC. Implying that these two conditions are intertwined.
The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class, loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), /.../
Invisible creatures are visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents’ Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any). See the invisibility special ability.
Another reason is that the Blind-Fight feat wouldn't provide your character with Dex-to-AC against normal opponents if you're blinded, as it only specifies Invisible opponents. Which defeats the whole purpose of the feat.
Benefit: In melee, every time you miss because of concealment (see Combat), you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit.
An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however.
You do not need to make Acrobatics skill checks to move at full speed while blinded.
Normal: Regular attack roll modifiers for invisible attackers trying to hit you apply, and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC. The speed reduction for darkness and poor visibility also applies.
Special: The Blind-Fight feat is of no use against a character who is the subject of a blink spell.
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Also, the Uncanny Dodge ability was written during a time when there were precious few ways to get Sneak Attack. The author seemed to assume that the only ways to lose your Dex-to-AC was from being Flat-Footed, Immobilized, Feinted or being attacked by an Invisible creature.
This we can interpret from the use of "Still". The two last sentences would be redundant if Uncanny Dodge didn't protect you from "All" ways of losing your Dex-to-AC known to the writer. Therefore, we can assume that Uncanny Dodge would help you when you're Blinded, since it's not listed as an exception and isn't a new condition.
At 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her.
However, Improved/Greater Blind-Fight are not from the same book as Blind-Fight, and you could argue that we're not supposed to use these newer feats as a precedent instead of the original Blind-Fight. Since the intent and assumption of the author of the first feat may have been that the feat would protect a character from losing Dex-to-AC from all sources related to vision.
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PRD Uncanny Dodge:Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her.
If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.
Going more literally, the only ways a rogue can lose their dex bonus as called out under uncanny dodge is to be feinted or to be immobilized. Those are the listed conditions for denying a rogue their dex to AC, and are the only ways to do so by a literalist interpretation. This ability calls out the ways you can SA a rogue, and if you don't like it tough.
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Okay, comparing a sincere answer to that of a 3rd grader is exactly the kind of immature 3rd grade response that you should avoid if you want anyone to take you seriously. My knee-jerk response is to disagree with you just because of your tone.
I'm sorry I just copied from another thread
Ah, I see. Well you mentioned that you aren't a native English speaker in your previous post, so I get that it may not have been intentional.
The comment you copied is quite insulting, so you should be careful not to quote comments you may not completely understand.
Back to the original topic, It's exceedingly hard to get Sneak Attack against a target with Improved Uncanny Dodge. It's an ability made to negate Sneak Attack, and that's why it's hard to counter. Feinting is pretty much your only choice against a high-level enemy with IUC.
