Los Angeles VC and VL

Pathfinder Society

How do I get in touch with the Venture Captain or Venture Lieutenant in my area?

I have a rules question to clarify and based on a game I played and I would like to start a discussion.

Los Angeles is a big town. Who do I reach out too?

Last week I sent a few emails to my VC and never heard back, so I’m thinking the email link must not work.

What should I do in this case?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic


Venture-Captains and Venture-Lieutenants are responsible for getting games organised. They are not there to answer rules questions.

If you have rules questions regarding Pathfinder RPG, go to the rules questions forum.

Questions specific to Pathfinder Society (like "How do Pestige Points work") you can ask here.

Also if there is a grey area, you can expect table variance and then your GM has the final say.

Well, it wasn’t to really ask a question, it was to let them know the GM is inforcing the wrong rule. If I could reach the GM, I would.

I was told at the game I was not allowed to take 10 on a knowledge check out of combat. He said only Bards could take 10 on knowledge checks.

This is not true.

I do not think this is a gray area and when I researched it afterwards, the rules are pretty clear.

Should I not be bringing it up at all? I believe he is not aware of this rule and thought I could offer help. He told me only Bards could do that, and another player agreed. Again, this is not true. I didn’t want to challenge him during the game, so I just said ok and rolled. After the game, there were a lot of people talking and I didn’t want to approach. I figured it would be better to just show him the rules.

What is the process here?

5/5 *****

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The next time you play with the GM I would bring up the relevant FAQ to their attention.

So everyone else that plays with him will also be told to follow the wrong rule until I challenge him at the table with print outs and supporting documents in a hope to change his mind?

That seems clunky. Why not just have the people that are supposed to be providing structure let him know?

I supposed I can sit there next time I am at the table with a print out ready to hand him in when I try to take a 10... but that seems to be a disservice to the other people playing society.

Scarab Sages 3/5

taking 10 is always a grey area, everywhere. it's the single biggest table variation i've ever come across and good luck to you with getting that resolved, it probably won't be easy.

Wait, how is taking 10 a gray area? The rules are very clear about taking 10 and taking 20.

I can understand if you are saying that you have experienced table variance on people understanding, but the rule itself is very clear.

I will start another thread on that topic.

My main point is how to deal with correcting rules. I should just print things off or just ignore it and move on?

4/5 ***

People make rules mistakes. It happens. It's particurally annoying when its a bit of rules thats been resolved some time ago.

It's just not a big deal though.

Additionally there's enough fuzz and gm discression in when take 10 is allowed that it's hard to definitevly say that disallowing taking 10 in a circumstance is definitively wrong even if it almost certainly is.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Globetrotter wrote:

Wait, how is taking 10 a gray area? The rules are very clear about taking 10 and taking 20.

Immediate danger and distraction is incredibly arbitrary and causes the biggest variation. Additionally whether the thing you're doing is dangerous or if there needs to be an outside danger besides the thing you're doing.

It IS a bard ability to take 10 on knowledge checks, which a lot of people (myself included) interpreted as needing the bard ability to do it much the same way you need a rogue talent to passively spot a trap.

Show him this and see if that clears anything up. If it doesn't, only then even consider getting the higher ups involved.

This is the core rulebook *drops it to the table with a heavy thud*

This is the location where supplementary rules and explanations are *throws a ream of paper out the window where they're scattered into the wind*

This is the requirements to DM a pathfinder society game "a PFS number"

There is no way that a PFS number is going to grant complete knowledge of *thuds the book* much less all that other stuff out there. If you get a DM in trouble for every rules mistake they make in the middle of the game, they're going to stop running.

Scarab Sages 5/5

That being said, here is a link to the coordinators. Pick the one that is closest to where you live.


The Exchange 4/5 5/5

See the FAQ BNW linked for this particular subject.

To contact a particular GM, go to
My Account --> Organized Play --> Player Sessions
You can find the GM for your session there and send a private message.

As the first VL or VC to respond here, I'll give a little bit of insight into the "structure" of PFS.

PFS doesn't really have that degree of top-down authority. In other words a VC or VL can't go up to an individual GM and demand that they use a particular interpretation of a rule if there is a grey area. (The FAQ means this topic isn't grey, I'm talking in general.) Sometimes if there's disagreement or if the GMs and players agree a rule is unclear, someone will ask a VO to investigate the topic and provide an answer for future games to remove the uncertainty. But the VOs can't force any GM to accept their ruling.

The way to handle this is to point out the FAQ to the GM the next time you play with him. Hopefully he will acknowledge he was wrong. You should only involve the VOs if the GM is refusing to follow the correct rule even after he is aware of it.

Even if a GM is clearly ruling incorrectly even after a line in a rulebook or a FAQ with the correct interpretation has been pointed out to them, the only real recourse is to ban the GM from the games that VC's area organizes. Which is a VERY harsh step that no one is going to take without additional justifications.

Wait... hold on. I am not sure why assumptions are being thrown around here.

The GM was a really nice guy. He has the false understanding that only Bards can take 10 on Knowledge checks, no matter the situation. I only want to let him know that is not correct. I want to help him. I didn’t bring it up during the game because that would have been rude.

That fact that some of you also do not know this rule, well, this thread is helpful for you as well. Here is the link the the FAQ that clarifies this: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t8o

Lore Master Bard Ability and Taking 10: Can I take 10 on Knowledge checks? The Knowledge skill doesn’t say I can’t, but if that's true, the first half of the lore master bard ability doesn’t do anything.

Yes, you can. The lore master bard ability should add to the end of that first sentence “even when threatened or distracted.”

posted April 2015

As you can see, this is a rule answered nearly 3 years ago. That fact that some are saying there should be table variance is strange. I can understand there IS table variance on all rules, but there shouldn’t be. We can either help or contridict.

The reason for this post was because the VC has not responded ot any of my emails, ever. I am curious if I am not getting the emails correctly. I am not sure which VL is closest to me as many of them are all equally far.

Should I email them all?

Understand, this is a really small thing and I was asking a question on how to help this guy. I really don’t think you can get in trouble because you misunderstand a rule. Why one poster thought that is beyond my understanding.

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Kevin Willis wrote:

See the FAQ BNW linked for this particular subject.

To contact a particular GM, go to
My Account --> Organized Play --> Player Sessions
You can find the GM for your session there and send a private message.

As the first VL or VC to respond here, I'll give a little bit of insight into the "structure" of PFS.

Kevin, thanks for the insight. I will try and send him a private message that way.

I really do not think he is against the rules or trying to run his own way. He was knowledable about many of the rules and I think he would appreciate knowing this one was clarified. We all miss rules and make mistakes.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That sounds great, Globetrotter!

I am glad to hear that you tried out PFS again and had (mostly) a good time. As for why there were a lot of assumptions being thrown around... Well, those of us in the Venture Corps sometimes get into situations where our player base wants us to rule on something that lies in a grey area in order to house rule table variation away.

So we have to explain to them why we don’t have the authority to quite do that... Though we can rule in cases of disputes where a rules issue caused a complaint or a death. It’s complicated!


Thanks Hillary,

I can see that. I send a PM and beyond that I’ll forget about it.

Looking forward to PaizoCon

Dataphiles 3/5

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Hi Globetrotter,

First let me echo the advice you've already received to simply talk to the GM in question. GM's certainly aren't infallible, and I'd certainly want to know if I made a mistake. I believe I played at a table with you last night at Game Empire. There are a great group of GMs in that area all of whom I'm sure would be receptive to you sharing this FAQ with them. I hope I get to game with you again whether its here in L.A. or at PaizoCon.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager

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Removed some posts, I think the question was resolved so I'm going to lock it up.

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