Painful Stare, Manifold Stare and spell attacks.


Rules Questions


Hi, after reading the relevant descriptions I have some doubts.

Painful Stare wrote:

When an attack that deals damage hits the target of a mesmerist’s hypnotic stare, the mesmerist can cause the target to take an amount of additional damage equal to 1/2 the mesmerist’s class level (minimum 1).

The mesmerist can use this ability as a free action, and can use it even if it isn’t his turn. If the mesmerist uses this ability to increase his own damage, the additional damage increases by 1d6 points for every 3 class levels the mesmerist possesses. This damage is precision damage and is not multiplied on a critical hit. A mesmerist can trigger this ability only once per round, but a single creature can take damage from multiple mesmerists’ painful stares in a round.

Manifold Stare wrote:
You can trigger your painful stare one additional time per round.
What is considered an attack in the Magic Section wrote:
Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.

I understand that a mesmerist can use painful stare while casting magic missile. Because it is an attack, it deals hp damage and it hits ("strikes" in the spell description of magic missile), even if it is automatically and without a roll.

1. But can several missiles directed to a single target trigger manifold stare? There are more than one missile, but I consider all of the missiles the same 'hit' if directed to the same target. Is that correct?

2. Regarding the interaction with other spells that attack on their own, for instance spiritual weapon. Is a hit from a spiritual weapon considered as the mesmerist own damage for the purposes of applying +Xd6 instead of +X damage. I am inclined to say yes since the caster directs it and the spells uses casters variables, but since I had the 1st doubt, there is no harm in including an extra related question to the thread.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It seems to me that "manifold stare" would indeed allow you to do extra "stare" damage, either twice per round on the same victim, or once to each of two victims on the same round, even if it was from a single spell, such as magic missile or scorching ray.


Wheldrake wrote:
It seems to me that "manifold stare" would indeed allow you to do extra "stare" damage, either twice per round on the same victim, or once to each of two victims on the same round, even if it was from a single spell, such as magic missile or scorching ray.

Not to 2 different victims unless you are allowed a swift action between the two hits in order to change the victim you are "hypnotic staring" at.

Regarding Scorching ray and 1 victim there is no doubt, because they are clearly 2 hits, from 2 rays. I do not see it so crystal clear with magic missile, but I can see the point.

Any thoughts on question 2?


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Question 2 - maybe not.

If you are invisible, using "spiritual weapon" doesn't break your invisibility, does it? I would claim that you aren't doing the damage yourself, just like if you'd summoned a giant dire crocodile to bite somebody in half. You shouldn't be able to have it both ways, claiming that you get extra damage for it being "your own damage" but that it doesn't break invisibility because you aren't the one attacking. QED.


Thank you Wheldrake, you totally convinced me about Question 2. The invisibility point you made is strong.

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