Hand of the Apprentice + Net Adept

[Mallecks]

Hypothetically speaking, what are the RAW consequences of this?

Hand of the Apprentice:

You cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning to you. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Net Adept:

You can treat a net as a one-handed melee reach weapon with a 10-foot reach. Further, you take no penalty on melee attack rolls for using an unfolded net, and you can use one full-round action or two move actions to fold a net.

Option 1: The net is not actually a melee weapon, even though you treat it like one. It is not eligible for HoA.

Option 2: You treat nets like 1H melee weapons and this qualifies it for use with Hand of the Apprentice. If I hit a create with the net, does it become ensnared? Does the net untangle itself and "instantly return to me"? What returns to me: the net or the trailing rope?

[Viondar]

I'd say the net is a melee weapon in this case, so you can use it with hand of the apprentice.

As to the 'instantly returning', I'd say it's a GM call to make. So I would discuss it with your GM. Some options:
- the net instantly returns via teleportation. Ergo the net is useless.
- the net tries to fly back, but can't, because it is stuck on your enemy. This would make the net only return when you miss... But what happens if you miss your enemy and hit a shrub?
- the trailing rope flies back. This would be quite useful.
- the net flies back to you, dragging the ensnared creature with an intelligence based drag combat maneuver on your part. While this would be cool, it might be considered too strong by some GMs.

[Mallecks]

Viondar wrote:

the net instantly returns via teleportation. Ergo the net is useless.

Are there any circumstances where "instantly returning to you" via teleportation would cause problems? What if I cast Dimensional Anchor on my net, then use Hand of the Apprentice?

Viondar wrote:

the net tries to fly back, but can't, because it is stuck on your enemy. This would make the net only return when you miss... But what happens if you miss your enemy and hit a shrub?

This is the angle I was trying to take. The net flies out and hits a target and entangles them. Now that it's all tangled up, it isn't able to fly back to you. Actually, I think the trailing rope (which could be considered the "hilt" of the weapon) tries to fly back as far as it can then drops on the ground. Also, if you miss, I think it should still come back. After all, your sword doesn't hit the shrub when you miss.

Viondar wrote:

the trailing rope flies back. This would be quite useful.

This is only useful if you use the ability on a target within 10 feet or craft a net with a special 30ft long trailing rope.

Viondar wrote:

the net flies back to you, dragging the ensnared creature with an intelligence based drag combat maneuver on your part. While this would be cool, it might be considered too strong by some GMs.

HoA explicitly states no Combat Maneuvers. So, I would say this is definitely outside RAW

[toastedamphibian]

You hit, creature becomes ensnared, net return to you, creature is no longer ensnared. Then they get confused as to what the hell just happened. Did I imagine it? Is it a prophetic vision? Why would someone learn to do such a useless trick? Must be me... unless it's an illusion!

[Mallecks]

What would happen if I used Hand of the Apprentice as a portcullis was falling and it closed before it returned to me?

What would happen if I used Hand of the Apprentice to try to attacking someone on the other side of a thick brush, in a tree with a thick canopy, on the other side of some netting, etc and my weapon gets tangled in the ropes, vines, branches, etc.?

What happens if someone catches catches the weapon used?

What happens if someone readies an action and teleports you to a different plane after you use HoA but before it returns? Does the sword fly at faster than the speed of light, passing through every barrier to return to your hand?

Does the weapon just no matter what fight against all the powers in the universe to become reunited with his master? And does so at "instant speed"?

While I would agree that normally RAW the weapon would return to you, the full circumstances of the net entangling a creature would prevent it from doing so.

[Pizza Lord]

I would say the weapon does not return if there would be a logical reason it wouldn't be able to. I don't view 'instantly returns' as teleport. I believe the wording is meant to differentiate it from typical returning weapons which don't return until the start of the next turn. In this case, it is making clear that the wielder has the weapon back in their hand after the action, but not that it teleports there. Otherwise, I would assume it functions like a returning weapon, flying back and if the wielder is not where they were or if they no longer have a hand to hold it somehow, it ends up in the square it was thrown from.

So that means that a hand of the apprentice-thrown weapon could be trapped in a room if someone had a readied action to close a door when you threw it into the room. It also means if you threw a net and entangled a creature, reasonably that would stop it from coming back too.

Other examples I would use: a monk snatching it, would prevent it from returning; a harpoon spearing and grappling a target would stay stuck in it; a weapon striking a mimic and getting stuck.