I've seen this old thread that talked about some of these issues but there wasn't any real conclusion to it.
1. If you don't have weapon proficiency (whip, do you take -4 on attacks with River Whip/Whip of Spiders ?
2. The entry for whip has: disarm, nonlethal, reach, trip
Can you do all of that with a River Whip? The spell tells us that you always deal damage, I suppose to circumvent a normal whips issue with armor, but does it remain being non lethal damage?
3. How do whips interact with size increases? The general assumption would be that they double so they should be 30?
4. Let's say you cast Whip of Spiders -which can be overcome by spell resistance- with spell combat and Vampiric Touch. What happens when the Whip fails the caster level check to overcome SR? Is it dispelled? Does it become a spider swarm? Let's say the Vampiric Touch had succeeded its caster level check? Would it still apply?
edit: removed some abundant information.
1. Yes:
You create a coil of flowing fresh water, functioning a whip appropriate for your size, except you make a melee touch attack instead of a regular attack
You can wield this object as if it were an actual whip, except you make a melee touch attack with it instead of a regular attack.
2a. Yes.
2b. River whip still does nonlethal. Whip of spiders does not, as it deals damage "as if it were attacked by a spider swarm". (Note: I'm less confident about this answer than the others!)
3. Correct:
A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.
4. It remains a whip of spiders--it just doesn't affect that creature:
Spell resistance prevents a spell or a spell-like ability from affecting or harming the resistant creature, but it never removes a magical effect from another creature or negates a spell’s effect on another creature. Spell resistance prevents a spell from disrupting another spell.
Against an ongoing spell that has already been cast, a failed check against spell resistance allows the resistant creature to ignore any effect the spell might have. The magic continues to affect others normally.
So since it didn't touch the enemy it can't apply the Vampiric Touch either, right?
Edit:
Do you need the proficiency to use trip? The entry for scorpion whip states that you need proficiency in whip to use disarm/trip/reach.
Why are the rules about reach suddenly changed?
Large "regular" reach weapons also have a reach of 20, even though they start only at 10 with medium size. It doesn't look very consistent.
Why are the rules about reach suddenly changed?
Large "regular" reach weapons also have a reach of 20, even though they start only at 10 with medium size. It doesn't look very consistent.
It's not. But that's the info we have for now. There are large devils/demons or whatever that have whips with only 15ft. So it looks like a whip adds 15ft instead of following normal reach rules.
3. A whip has reach of 15 feet, or a Large (tall) creature using a reach weapon has reach of 20 feet. Use the best reach applicable. Yes, this breaks at Tiny or smaller without a further ruling.
Cite?
So since it didn't touch the enemy it can't apply the Vampiric Touch either, right?
Edit:
Do you need the proficiency to use trip? The entry for scorpion whip states that you need proficiency in whip to use disarm/trip/reach.
Sorry, missed the vampiric touch part!
4b. Since the opponent is unaffected by the spell comprising the whip, it won't work as a delivery mechanism either--the spell (and therefore the whip) effectively doesn't exist to that creature.
5. Nope, that's only for the scorpion whip. A regular whip always has those properties, and both of those spells treat the resulting weapon as a whip. Trip/disarm away.
4. Let's say you cast Whip of Spiders -which can be overcome by spell resistance- with spell combat and Vampiric Touch. What happens when the Whip fails the caster level check to overcome SR? Is it dispelled? Does it become a spider swarm? Let's say the Vampiric Touch had succeeded its caster level check? Would it still apply?
You did say spell COMBAT, not spell STRIKE, but I'm going to bring up both here...
Spell Combat: I see no reason why the spell and the whip/spell would have any affect on one another. You are casting/attacking with the spell using your "off hand" when using spell combat. You should be fine if the whip/spell doesn't break spell resistance. What happens to the whip of spiders failed the SR check? My guess is, it has no effect on the creature at all.
Spell Strike: Spell strike is different. I only bring this up, because I've had some "discussion" with the venture captain in my area concerning spells that create weapons and using spell strike. Effectively, he told me, that it will not work, because the spell that created the weapon, is considered a "spell" not a "weapon", despite the fact that it created a weapon (I tried arguing with him for a while, he wasn't going to budge). I more wanted to warn you, that if you intend to use Spell STRIKE with one of these whips to get a touch attack spell strike, your GM may have issues with it. (for the record, I was trying to do it with Flame Blade, but same principle)
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3. A whip has reach of 15 feet, or a Large (tall) creature using a reach weapon has reach of 20 feet. Use the best reach applicable. Yes, this breaks at Tiny or smaller without a further ruling.Cite?
The rules for whips and for reach weapons are in the core rulebook. I'm not aware of an official ruling on how they interact.
This isn't the first time the question has come up. I doubt it is new to Pathfinder.
3. A whip has reach of 15 feet, or a Large (tall) creature using a reach weapon has reach of 20 feet. Use the best reach applicable. Yes, this breaks at Tiny or smaller without a further ruling.Cite?The rules for whips and for reach weapons are in the core rulebook. I'm not aware of an official ruling on how they interact.
This isn't the first time the question has come up. I doubt it is new to Pathfinder.
It isn't; it's come up multiple times. This is just the first time I've seen this particular resolution, so I wondered if I'd missed a FAQ somewhere. : D
The two schools I usually see are
1. The only first-party stat block for a larger-than-Medium creature I can find, the large balor, wields a whip but only gets 20' of range. (Counterpoint: Both mistakes and creature-specific rule changes are common in Bestiary stat blocks.)
2. James Jacobs weighed in on the issue in favor of 30' for Large creatures. (Counterpoint: James isn't/wasn't part of the rules team and has been "wrong" before.)
@Blahpers
Yeah, that's what I figured. Thanks.
@shalandar
Haha, yeah, I'm getting these two confused all the time.
Anyway, there are lots of effects that get dispelled if they hit upon spell resistance.
Thank you for your concern, I'm actually the GM but I like to build my encounters based on "actual" rules. Though I don't think I will incorporate that, they are creations/summons after all and not just illusions. They even need proficiency apparently (makes sense, just saw another level 2 spell, whip of rocks, grants you the proficiency but they are regular attacks).
@Starglim
Compromise, 25 reach?