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Its easier to make a negative impression or have a negative comment really tick someone off than it is for a positive notion to really help someone out. Any sort of rating system or feedback system would likely drive off dms but..
the dm should be listed if the game was reported. Under create a character
click pathfinder society
click "create a character"
sign in
click player sessions
That should let you know who the dm was. You'll have to remember that the dm from Trouble with tortoises was the one where you had the bad game but you'll have some kind of record.
Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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The easiest way, in my experience, is to GM and decide to be awesome at it.
That is what I did!
I’ve also been involved with a lot of GM training and mentoring in both face-to-face and play-by-post GMing. It can be tough learning how to GM, especially when it comes to the more complex scenarios and specials. But the more we give back to each other, the more awesome we all can be.
I am sorry that you had a couple lackluster GMs. Here’s hoping that your experiences are better going forward!
Hmm
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Also, bear in mind that what one person considers a bad GM, may be good to others. For example, a GM that greatly favors a particular style of play (Heavy RP, Power Gaming, etc.) may be hostile (or appear to be hostile) to other forms of gaming but is fabulous if you like that style. I have experienced this several times over the years as I would look at GMs that I and others considered horrible but had a loyal group of followers that thought he was the best GM ever. Heck, even the best of us have a few players who avoid or refuse to play under us as our GMing style may rub them the wrong way. While organized play GMs should always strive to be as inclusive as possible with playstyles, you are never going to be 100% successful.
So I would advise that when you ask around locally about the quality of a GM, you don't just ask if they are a good GM. Ask specific questions related to what you personally consider a good GM.
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My first PFS experience was when my wife and I asked to play, but the tables were full--so I was asked to GM a couple of scenarios and we'll see how it goes!
So yeah, Serisan's experience mirrors my own.
But Bill Baldwin is even more correct. Every GM has their own style, and they tend to be better at what they enjoy than they are at the parts they don't like. Find GMs who like the same things you do and you'll have a better shot at having a good time. And some GMs lend themselves more to some types of scenarios than others. There are GMs that I love playing for in a special but wouldn't want to play for them in an investigative scenario, and vice versa.
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100 scenario 1 death?
nope
No more than 5 scenario
I can think of 4 PC deaths on tables that I've run, none permanent. I'm not the most likely GM to kill PCs, I would think towards the lower end. So I'd estimate more than 1 in 100 chance for one PC to die (it might be closer to correct for each individual player), but 1 in 5 seems higher than it should be.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Actually, my community all know these guys, but newcomers not know
Well, newcomers they just know this game, make a character, see the recruitment, join the game, get the kill, and never play again. What is worse. They may think it's a game run like this and become a part of them.
If this is remotely true... This sucks.
We have advance signups at Dreamers. When we see new players signup, we make every effort to put them on a table with an excellent GM. Now it helps that I have a lot of great GMs at Dreamers to pick from — but then again, we’ve built that resource from the very beginning, recruiting people we think might be good, and then mentoring and helping them learn to GM.
As the brilliant Bill Baldwin notes, there are many types of GMs out there. Some of those ‘killer’ GMs are dedicated to giving their veterans a fun game by providing a hard ball challenge. However, what is appropriate for veterans is not always appropriate for newcomers. You want them to experience the joy of a roleplaying scenario and provide appropriate challenges for their skill level. You want to work with them, and have them so delighted with the story and the game that they learn the rules without thinking about it too hard.
Matching GMs to those new players is the job of a good organizer. You want to put those new players at tables where they not only have a friendly GM, but also friendly fellow players to show them the ropes. If there are advance signups, not taking care of your newbies seems irresponsible. Especially if the GMs assigned to those tables are ones that the rest of the player base avoids. I am really hoping that this is not a common experience in your area. New players are any venue’s life blood. You need that constant influx of new people to have a vibrant venue, and to find new potential GMs.
Is there an organizer that you can talk to about this? A Venture Officer of some sort? It might help if you envision the sort of greetings that you want new players in your location to receive. What may be happening here may simply be a mismatch in GM style, with a GM who is as inexperienced as the players are.
Hmm
PS As for player deaths, I think that all GMs eventually kill a PC at some point. I have one death on my hands in almost 150 games. I was running a first level adventure, and rolled a crit with a barbarian with a great axe. Alas, there was nothing that I could do... the dice killed the pc in a single blow. Deaths to crits at first level are the most common deaths in the whole game. Sometimes the deaths are ones that you just cannot help.
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In PFS I have not taken out a character yet.
I dread and loathe the day it will happen with a vengeance, but I will not shirk from my duties and I will do everything in my power not to candy-coat it.
It's part of why I'm pretty obsessive about my prep, because I want the players to have every option and opportunity available via their interaction with the scenario, versus a very limited menu of options.
As a player, I have had four or five situations In-Character where my characters either needed Breath of Life or... Raise Dead.
Most of those situations could have been avoided with better tactical awareness.
All of the situations were created by character roleplay.
I do not fault the GM for the poor choices my characters made.
What I do fault GMs for is when they go 'off-script' for a scenario (and only because they think the NPC should be doing X instead of tactics) and nearly wipe a party.
We're not talking Hard Mode -- that's a whole different can of worms.
We're talking BBEG in The Confirmation being run at full strength at the end of the scenario.
We're talking the last fight in Consortium Compact turned into squad-level SWAT tactics outside of tactics as written.
We're talking wave after wave after endless wave of mooks in one encounter of Wisp, only stopping when half the party was down.
And in case folks are wondering, no, I do not play at tables with those GMs anymore, and last I heard they hadn't run anything in a goodly while.
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I have one confirmed kill and two honorable mentions.
I almost killed my VC in my first game with him. Half-fiend mimic smite good crit, very nasty.
Fortunately, he had shield other
up.
As for the real kill... a fighter ate a one-two punch of forbiddance and blade barrier. What's more, his body was in the blade zone long enough that he needed a full resurrection spell to be revived.
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I have one confirmed kill and two honorable mentions.
First permakill was table 60, starting a long history of being very dangerous to ninjas, especially 10 Con ones.
In Eyes of the Ten Part 1, I made a 12 year girl cry when I killed her cleric.
I'm such a monster.
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I have a long history of killing my VC's characters and he never feels all that bad about it. A lot of them just have less-than-survivable personalities. My favorite was a module with a certain gunpowder ooze. His Talisman of Life's Breath triggered some primal magic, dealing fire damage to it. There was a chain of fire cones as the ooze had split.
Yay campaign mode modules for letting me have primal magic just this once.
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Generally speaking this is a community campaign so GMs and players come and go. Its next to impossible to guarantee you will not experience some poor players or GMs unless you play exclusively with the same ones every time. That being said, there is an expectation that GMs will learn over time. So, if you have a bad experience, I recommend talking to the GM about it. Personalities differ and they may not even realize what they did was not well received. Most GMs want to get better and take feedback very well.
Also, tell the organizer and/or Venture-Officer about your experience. They can follow up with the GM and help to mentor improvements. Too often people don't report their particularly good and bad experiences so organizers have no idea if their GMs are "good" or "bad." And, if the GM continues to perform poorly over time, the organizer can stop using them or players will become aware of the GMs quality and refuse to play at their table.
Improving the quality of play works for both the players and the GMs. If we share our experiences openly and respectfully, everyone will benefit.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
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I have a long history of killing my VC's characters and he never feels all that bad about it. A lot of them just have less-than-survivable personalities. My favorite was a module with a certain gunpowder ooze. His Talisman of Life's Breath triggered some primal magic, dealing fire damage to it. There was a chain of fire cones as the ooze had split.
Yay campaign mode modules for letting me have primal magic just this once.
Played that module with my martial artist and another monk, as well as a ranger and sorcerer back line. primal magic made other monks fist glowy, and he hit the ooze. we already had split it, so we had the fire cones as well. Evasion for the win, except for the nat 1 the other monk got...
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Poor GM's who go out to kill characters or make poor rulings that always put players in a bad situation get a reputation quickly. For me they are easy to avoid.
What I run into here and there are GM's who for whatever reason knew ahead of time they were signed up to GM and still decided to run cold. A GM running cold has always been a crappy playing experience for me. Lots of mistakes, GM retcons because they missed something, and long periods of dead time as the GM reads through things. The long periods of dead time almost always result in players losing interest in what's going on at the table and having problems staying in the game.
These GM's for me, go into a category of I don't trust them. Sometimes they prep and other times they don't. I generally try to avoid these gm's I don't trust. If I end up sitting at their table I ask if they prepped the scenario. If they did not I get up and leave the table and look to play the scenario another time.
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Actually, my community all know these guys, but newcomers not know
Well, newcomers they just know this game, make a character, see the recruitment, join the game, get the kill, and never play again. What is worse. They may think it's a game run like this and become a part of them
100 scenario 1 death?
nope
No more than 5 scenario
Wherever I organize, I don't allow killer GMs (or just really unprepared GMs) to run once they have proven themselves to be so. So *do* talk to your organizers, they have the control, even if they don't exercise it much. Of course, if they *are* the killer GMs, you may need to go higher with your comments to get action.
I would say 1 in 100 is lower than actual (though it does depend strongly on the GMs in general). I'm pretty easy going in that respect, and probably have a single death one per 15-20 sessions, and have yet to TPK after almost 200. Also depends on the season - 4,5, and 9 are pretty rough at points, in different ways.
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Played that module with my martial artist and another monk, as well as a ranger and sorcerer back line. primal magic made other monks fist glowy, and he hit the ooze. we already had split it, so we had the fire cones as well. Evasion for the win, except for the nat 1 the other monk got...I have a long history of killing my VC's characters and he never feels all that bad about it. A lot of them just have less-than-survivable personalities. My favorite was a module with a certain gunpowder ooze. His Talisman of Life's Breath triggered some primal magic, dealing fire damage to it. There was a chain of fire cones as the ooze had split.
Yay campaign mode modules for letting me have primal magic just this once.
He had evasion, but being helpless gave him a fabulous -5 dex mod. Pretty hard to succeed on Reflex saves when you have something like a 12 point swing on the save all of the sudden.
Wooden stakes, silver bullets, holy symbols, Large mauls these are a few of my anti bad gm tools.
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Also, tell the organizer and/or Venture-Officer about your experience. They can follow up with the GM and help to mentor improvements. Too often people don't report their particularly good and bad experiences so organizers have no idea if their GMs are "good" or "bad." And, if the GM continues to perform poorly over time, the organizer can stop using them or players will become aware of the GMs quality and refuse to play at their table.
Sometimes telling the VC or organizers about a bully GM can have the opposite effect. I was recently starting a high-level game with a group of players that I have been playing with for a while. We switched to a new GM and the new GM told me that the way I've been using Dervish Dance with the Magus was incorrect and wouldn't allow me to use it. When I asked the VC to come in and try to help with the situation, she came, told the GM that he was being too strict on his ruling, but allowed him to rule it as he chooses. After the VC left, he told me that a VC had no weight on a GM's game and kicked me off the table. (well, first he canceled the game and then decided to run it and kicked me.)
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Sometimes telling the VC or organizers about a bully GM can have the opposite effect. I was recently starting a high-level game with a group of players that I have been playing with for a while. We switched to a new GM and the new GM told me that the way I've been using Dervish Dance with the Magus was incorrect and wouldn't allow me to use it. When I asked the VC to come in and try to help with the situation, she came, told the GM that he was being too strict on his ruling, but allowed him to rule it as he chooses. After the VC left, he told me that a VC had no weight on a GM's game and kicked me off the table. (well, first he canceled the game and then decided to run it and kicked me.)
...wut.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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After the VC left, he told me that a VC had no weight on a GM's game and kicked me off the table. (well, first he canceled the game and then decided to run it and kicked me.)...wut.
In cases where the rules are not clear, it is generally a good idea as a VO to allow the GM at the table to make the rules determination. You can advise them of how you would rule, but leave the final determination to the table GM. Not doing so can be seen as lack of support for the GM. If there is a clear indication via FAQ or something like that, the GM must follow the rules.
On the other hand, canceling a table like that as a GM isn’t going to make VOs happy.
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Sometimes telling the VC or organizers about a bully GM can have the opposite effect. I was recently starting a high-level game with a group of players that I have been playing with for a while. We switched to a new GM and the new GM told me that the way I've been using Dervish Dance with the Magus was incorrect and wouldn't allow me to use it. When I asked the VC to come in and try to help with the situation, she came, told the GM that he was being too strict on his ruling, but allowed him to rule it as he chooses. After the VC left, he told me that a VC had no weight on a GM's game and kicked me off the table. (well, first he canceled the game and then decided to run it and kicked me.)....
Also, tell the organizer and/or Venture-Officer about your experience. They can follow up with the GM and help to mentor improvements. Too often people don't report their particularly good and bad experiences so organizers have no idea if their GMs are "good" or "bad." And, if the GM continues to perform poorly over time, the organizer can stop using them or players will become aware of the GMs quality and refuse to play at their table.
The way that was handled sounds pretty bad, but dervish dance working when slashing grace et all do not would make absolutely no sense. Its not a gray area, its pitch black with a teeeeeny tiny spot of light somewhere off in the distance.
We had this crop up in our local group. How i ruled it was that because the person had made the character pre faqratta, and there was no ability to swap out dervish dance (and their entire stat build... thats a pretty important cog in the watch) like there was and he was stuck with it it would work.
If someone knowingly hopped on the slashing grace loophole after the faqratta i have no sympathy for running into this. They specifically went out of their way to alter something so that a fighting style meant to empower fencing would not empower magusflurry.
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I've forgotten how many PCs I've killed in PFS. At least one, but probably not more then 3. I've got 4 stars.
And that group of cheese monkeys I GMed from 3 to seeker level? Never even killed any of them once =P They know me too well.
And I've never killed an animal companion nor a familiar in PFS. Campaign mode, temporarily, twice. But it was fixed with BOL.
Just random thoughts.
Oh. I've been GMing around too.
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Oh hell. I prepare the scenarios to the best of my ability...except when the VC gives me really short notice. What is it with all those you get the scenarios you're supposed to run only a week before instead of a month?
I know they're the latest scenarios but still... >.<
Season 9 I've heard hasn't been easy to prep. Too many fiddly bits. Ask me to run a fight? Sure. A series of skill checks all over the place, with weird mechanics for failure or each round something else happens? Sorry, I ain't your cat.
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I tell the VO that I'm going to be running for that I need the scenario at least three weeks before the convention date or I won't be able to run it for them.
If they have to take the initiative to make that happen, that's the job they volunteered to do.
I know my time restraints and capabilities and I want to do a good job, or like how some players said over the summer "It's like you almost wrote the scenario, you were on top of everything and you kept it moving even when we threw really weird stuff at you."
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The way that was handled sounds pretty bad, but dervish dance working when slashing grace et all do not would make absolutely no sense. Its not a gray area, its pitch black with a teeeeeny tiny spot of light somewhere off in the distance.We had this crop up in our local group. How i ruled it was that because the person had made the character pre faqratta, and there was no ability to swap out dervish dance (and their entire stat build... thats a pretty important cog in the watch) like there was and he was stuck with it it would work.
If someone knowingly hopped on the slashing grace loophole after the faqratta i have no sympathy for running into this. They specifically went out of their way to alter something so that a fighting style meant to empower fencing would not empower magusflurry.
For my character, it's more of the first than the later since I didn't even know there was a problem with a Magus using Dervish Dance and Spell Combat. I built my character around Dex, being in the middle of the fight and trying to soak up damage.
When the GM said that I couldn't use it how I have been using it for 7 years, I looked at the issue and tried to meet him with a compromise and listed spells with a material components that would occupy my open hand. When he shot that down is when I brought in the VC to try and negotiate the problem.
As for GMing scenarios. I have had time where I had all the maps ready and some times when I got off a 14 hour plane ride and hopped onto a table at GenCon, reading the scenario as quickly as I could.
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I tell the VO that I'm going to be running for that I need the scenario at least three weeks before the convention date or I won't be able to run it for them.If they have to take the initiative to make that happen, that's the job they volunteered to do.
I know my time restraints and capabilities and I want to do a good job, or like how some players said over the summer "It's like you almost wrote the scenario, you were on top of everything and you kept it moving even when we threw really weird stuff at you."
Just so everyone is aware (as I'm sure GM Wageslave is), doing this requires only one of a few options.
- buy it yourself
- VO buys it and gifts it to you
- somehow get Tonya to make an exception for one person and dump scenarios for 1 GM two weeks earlier than is SOP
- print out a copy for the GM from VOs downloads (they get them all free)
Regardless the method, it incurs some kind of cost to the VO.
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Sometimes telling the VC or organizers about a bully GM can have the opposite effect. I was recently starting a high-level game with a group of players that I have been playing with for a while. We switched to a new GM and the new GM told me that the way I've been using Dervish Dance with the Magus was incorrect and wouldn't allow me to use it. When I asked the VC to come in and try to help with the situation, she came, told the GM that he was being too strict on his ruling, but allowed him to rule it as he chooses. After the VC left, he told me that a VC had no weight on a GM's game and kicked me off the table. (well, first he canceled the game and then decided to run it and kicked me.)....
Also, tell the organizer and/or Venture-Officer about your experience. They can follow up with the GM and help to mentor improvements. Too often people don't report their particularly good and bad experiences so organizers have no idea if their GMs are "good" or "bad." And, if the GM continues to perform poorly over time, the organizer can stop using them or players will become aware of the GMs quality and refuse to play at their table.The way that was handled sounds pretty bad, but dervish dance working when slashing grace et all do not would make absolutely no sense. Its not a gray area, its pitch black with a teeeeeny tiny spot of light somewhere off in the distance.
We had this crop up in our local group. How i ruled it was that because the person had made the character pre faqratta, and there was no ability to swap out dervish dance (and their entire stat build... thats a pretty important cog in the watch) like there was and he was stuck with it it would work.
If someone knowingly hopped on the slashing grace loophole after the faqratta i have no sympathy for running into this. They specifically went out of their way to alter something so that a fighting style meant to empower fencing would not empower magusflurry.
I am confused. I thought Dervish Dance was the ONLY remaining PFS legal way to build a Dex-based Black Blade. I read the Slashing Grace FAQ and assumed the lack of reference to Dervish Dance was deliberate on the designers part so that Dex-base Black Blades could still have a legal method of not completely changing their characters. Now you seem to be telling me that you simply can't have a Dex-based Black Blade in PFS anymore? Guess I get to throw my 5-year old, 10th-level Magus in the trash.
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So they didn't deliberately end dex magi they just wanted them packing the pews of the temple of saranrae?
They didn't end Dex-based Magi. They simply limited how effective they could be until they could afford Agile on their weapon. But since Bladebound Magi can't put Agile on their weapon, Dervish Dance is the only remaining option they have for not having to rebuild so much it is no longer effectively the same character. Plus, Dervish Dance has been around a lot longer than Slashing Grace and thus has a greater effect on builds. Hence, I assumed the omission was deliberate.
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...wut.
After the VC left, he told me that a VC had no weight on a GM's game
As far as I can tell he is absolutely correct. There is nothing in the guide saying that a VC can override a GM at the table.
A Venture Officer has almost no formal authority. As a practical matter, they have a huge amount of influence in their area but the table GM IS the table GM and, as far as I can tell, has final authority at the table
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...wut.
After the VC left, he told me that a VC had no weight on a GM's gameAs far as I can tell he is absolutely correct. There is nothing in the guide saying that a VC can override a GM at the table.
A Venture Officer has almost no formal authority. As a practical matter, they have a huge amount of influence in their area but the table GM IS the table GM and, as far as I can tell, has final authority at the table
Coming from a former VC, this is absolutely true. Even if some try to run their regions with an "iron fist." There is nothing that actually gives a VC this type of authority.
What they do have, however, is the authority to overturn GM decisions after the fact. And they have the authority to not give those GM's assignments at the game days they organize. This is something I think I've done once only in the 5 years I was a VL and VC, and always tried to consider doing something like this frugally.
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Tallow: Well Aware.Paul: So as a GM I could theoretically say my scenario is going to be all 'theatre of the mind' because I didn't have time to draw out maps? And it's legit?
There is no requirement to use a grid in either PF or PFS. Of course, that doesn't mean your players won't have issue with you doing this and will avoid your tables in the future to the point you can no longer effectively GM. But that's your choice.