A few questions I can't seem to find in the CRB for the Drone' Riding Saddle (Ex) modification.
1: Says it makes the Drone count as a "combat-trained" mount but I can't seem to find where it's clarified how "combat-trained" differs from a regular mount in Starfinder?
2: Mentions carrying my mechanic and potentially another passenger, but I can't seem to find if this means that my Drone's Strength must be able to carry them, or if weight/bulk is ignored for "passengers" as part of the upgrade. How does this work?
3: Says I can "Direct my drone mount in battle without attempting Survival Checks." Does this mean I automatically pass any survival checks related to riding the Drone, or just some of them? Furthermore, does require an action of it's own (for me or the drone or both)?
Did you see page 149 of CRB? It is under the Survival skill section.
Gary Bush wrote: Did you see page 149 of CRB? It is under the Survival skill section. Yes, none of these are covered directly. I also checked the Glossary and the Index.
Re-reading survival just confuses things further. Pax Miles wrote: A few questions I can't seem to find in the CRB for the Drone' Riding Saddle (Ex) modification.
1: Says it makes the Drone count as a "combat-trained" mount but I can't seem to find where it's clarified how "combat-trained" differs from a regular mount in Starfinder?
2: Mentions carrying my mechanic and potentially another passenger, but I can't seem to find if this means that my Drone's Strength must be able to carry them, or if weight/bulk is ignored for "passengers" as part of the upgrade. How does this work?
3: Says I can "Direct my drone mount in battle without attempting Survival Checks." Does this mean I automatically pass any survival checks related to riding the Drone, or just some of them? Furthermore, does require an action of it's own (for me or the drone or both)?
1: Combat-trained mounts only seem to be in reference to that special "Fight from a combat-trained mount bit." which sounds related, then we read the description:
Quote: When you direct a mount trained for combat into battle, you must attempt a survival check as a swift action. Stop. Question 3 points out that we don't have to do survival checks when directing a mount into battle. Does this mean that there is no action because taking the survival check itself is the swift action?
Directing is also an unclarified concept. Do they mean telling the drone/mount what to shoot, or do they mean moving? Also, does "directing" require hands? "Guide with knees" mentions that it doesn't require hands, but that's the only reference to required hands that I can find in the use of survival.
Additionally, if we don't have to take the survival check for the only thing that Combat Trained mount does, then it really doesn't do anything.
And how does this differ from just using the Limited AI (Ex) to command your Drone?
So breaking it down:
Pax Miles wrote: 1: Says it makes the Drone count as a "combat-trained" mount but I can't seem to find where it's clarified how "combat-trained" differs from a regular mount in Starfinder? Combat-trained is defined at the bottom of page 149. "When you direct a mount trained in combat..."
How a combat-trained mount differs from a non-combat-trained mount is found under the heading "Control Mount in Battle".
Basically the difference is that with a non-combat mount you have to use your Move action to make it move or your Standard action to make it attack. If you fail the check, you and the mount lose that action. A Combat-Trained Mount can be directed using a swift action. If successful, both the mount and you can make attacks as normal. Failure means only one of you can attack.
Pax Miles wrote: 2: Mentions carrying my mechanic and potentially another passenger, but I can't seem to find if this means that my Drone's Strength must be able to carry them, or if weight/bulk is ignored for "passengers" as part of the upgrade. How does this work? I don't really know about this part so I have nothing to offer.
Pax Miles wrote: 3: Says I can "Direct my drone mount in battle without attempting Survival Checks." Does this mean I automatically pass any survival checks related to riding the Drone, or just some of them? Furthermore, does require an action of it's own (for me or the drone or both)? You still have to control your drone as per the rules in Mechanic. It just means that you don't also have to make any Survival checks while mounted.
Pax Miles wrote: A few questions I can't seem to find in the CRB for the Drone' Riding Saddle (Ex) modification.
1: Says it makes the Drone count as a "combat-trained" mount but I can't seem to find where it's clarified how "combat-trained" differs from a regular mount in Starfinder?
2: Mentions carrying my mechanic and potentially another passenger, but I can't seem to find if this means that my Drone's Strength must be able to carry them, or if weight/bulk is ignored for "passengers" as part of the upgrade. How does this work?
3: Says I can "Direct my drone mount in battle without attempting Survival Checks." Does this mean I automatically pass any survival checks related to riding the Drone, or just some of them? Furthermore, does require an action of it's own (for me or the drone or both)?
Warning: These rules fundamentally do not answer all of your questions clearly or concisely - what I provide below is my best attempt to interpret them, not an argument that I am objectively correct or that I have necessarily interpreted them accurately.
1) Combat-trained mounts have two differences. The first is that you do not need to take the Control Mount in Battle action, which is a DC 20 Survival check you take on the mount's turn to get it to do what you want. The second is that you can legally take the Fight from a Combat-Trained Mount action, which is a DC 10 Survival Check and a Swift action to allow you and your mount to both attack - without it, only one of you can legally make attacks each round.
2) "Them" is a strong term - your mount has one saddle, custom fit for you. Another means different, not additional, in context, from what I can tell - it's only saying that the rules for whether or not it can carry you differ from the rules for whether or not it can carry someone else. Weight/bulk is not ignored, as we have no rules saying it is, so obviously you really want to be lightweight.
3) No. The Survival checks you do not need to attempt are the ones used to direct the drone: Guide With Knees, Leap, and Spur Mount. Your mount cannot bolt unexpectedly, since you will always expect everything it does, but you need to pass the DC 5 check if you take damage while riding it. Soft Fall, Fast Mount/Dismount, and Cover are actions you take totally unrelated to guiding your mount, so you still need to pass the relevant Survival checks to take them.
quindraco wrote: Warning: These rules fundamentally do not answer all of your questions clearly or concisely - what I provide below is my best attempt to interpret them, not an argument that I am objectively correct or that I have necessarily interpreted them accurately.
1) Combat-trained mounts have two differences. The first is that you do not need to take the Control Mount in Battle action, which is a DC 20 Survival check you take on the mount's turn to get it to do what you want. The second is that you can legally take the Fight from a Combat-Trained Mount action, which is a DC 10 Survival Check and a Swift action to allow you and your mount to both attack - without it, only one of you can legally make attacks each round.
2) "Them" is a strong term - your mount has one saddle, custom fit for you. Another means different, not additional, in context, from what I can tell - it's only saying that the rules for whether or not it can carry you differ from the rules for whether or not it can carry someone else. Weight/bulk is not ignored, as we have no rules saying it is, so obviously you really want to be lightweight.
3) No. The Survival checks you do not need to attempt are the ones used to...
It cut you off, not me. Thanks for answers, and especially for the warning to put it in the proper context.
Any clue how to determine my character's bulk? It's probably somewhere.
I will note that the vehicle rules don't seem to mention if passengers count towards bulk. Perhaps they simplified it and passengers lack bulk.
I think the book mentions something about 5 to 10 pounds being 1 bulk? I don't have it in front of me, but maybe the Encumbrance section?
Pantshandshake wrote: I think the book mentions something about 5 to 10 pounds being 1 bulk? I don't have it in front of me, but maybe the Encumbrance section? What you are describing is page 167 for "estimating Item Bulk" and it doesn't apply to creatures as far as I can tell. In general, bulk only applies to items.
I think they simplified it, I don't think passengers have bulk.
Speaking of, riding rules in starfinder apply to any creature, not just animals as in pathfinder. As written, you should be able to "ride" other players with those rules. Although I doubt starfinder society would let us, I do think it could make for a fun pair of characters to have one be a mount and the other a rider.
"Stay Mounted" is a reaction. Therefore, if you get hit twice in a turn, you automatically fall off. I would be THRILLED if someone could convince me that I'm wrong!
Pax Miles wrote: Pantshandshake wrote: I think the book mentions something about 5 to 10 pounds being 1 bulk? I don't have it in front of me, but maybe the Encumbrance section? What you are describing is page 167 for "estimating Item Bulk" and it doesn't apply to creatures as far as I can tell. In general, bulk only applies to items.
I think they simplified it, I don't think passengers have bulk.
Speaking of, riding rules in starfinder apply to any creature, not just animals as in pathfinder. As written, you should be able to "ride" other players with those rules. Although I doubt starfinder society would let us, I do think it could make for a fun pair of characters to have one be a mount and the other a rider. Yes, you stole the words out of my mouth. :) If creatures don't have bulk, we're going to run into all sorts of wackiness, like the party operative picking up an Oma and running off with it.
quindraco wrote: Yes, you stole the words out of my mouth. :) If creatures don't have bulk, we're going to run into all sorts of wackiness, like the party operative picking up an Oma and running off with it. Well, each character's gear still has bulk, plus picking up unwilling targets is likely a grapple check which has size related penalties for larger creatures.
Anyway, I think the GM would likely put a stop to any absurd weight related issues, but I do like the idea of not needing to track the carry weight of mounts in regard to their passengers. Just seems like a stupid extra complication, that doesn't really serve an in-game benefit.
Plus it eliminates the gender bias of mounted characters in Pathfinder (Females, with very few exceptions, weigh less in Pathfinder than males, so they have a mechanical advantage for PCs that plan to use mounts). I like the idea of gender equality in starfinder (would be nice to have it in pathfinder too).
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