starting at level 3, 20 point buy cleric with Luck / Liberty domain... ADVICE?!

[Vicon]

I'm starting a new campaign with a new group and really want to shine as a support cleric. I'm restricted to basic and APG -- and I really want this to work out well so I'm asking for handholds from people who really know the class, I've read one of the class guides but I'm still ultra-nervous and want to make the best of optimizing my character within the parameters I've already chosen. I'm particularly concerned about how I should do my point buy/attribute points as 20 is a lean number compared to what I've been used to.

My character will have luck and Liberty domains, and the character will be human, (or possibly dwarf if there is a really good reason over a human cleric)

What feats should I choose? I am thinking scribe scroll and improved initiative to start with.

Most importantly, how do I spend the 3000gp I'm starting with? I really want to be able to shine as a support character and know the knowledge base on the advice board is really spectacular.

I thank anybody for taking the time to read and reply to this.

[SanderJK]

A dwarf could be a good choice if you want to go defensive, though you give up some channel and luck domain uses with the cha penalty. The bonus to saves, which you can change to +4 with the Steel Soul feat make it more likely that you're not suffering from what the party is. (In general, will > fort > refl are orders of importance for this). And it allows you to feat in heavy armor and still move 4 squares once you have the gold, which allows for a really low dex.

Selective Channeling is very good if you want to focus on healing. It means you don't heal your opponents.

Mathematically, the luck domain 1st level power is an amazing boost. I use one standing next to our archer ranger, and it makes monster cry.

Scribe scroll is good, make sure your GM is ok with crafting, and that you will have downtime to do it. Because it takes up quite a bit of ingame time.

About what to buy:

- A cold iron weapon and a silver weapon for when you need to bypass DR.
Make sure 1 is a light slashing or piercing weapon, so you can wield it if you ever get grappled or eaten (and have to cut open a stomach from the inside)
- A ranged weapon. Light crossbows usually serve this. You can have arrows that bypass DR very cheaply.
- Alchemist fire flasks (20) /holy water (25) /acid flasks (10) to deal with swarms
- A masterwork armor (250 ish) - These help you against swarms and undead. Touch attacks are generally easier to make.
- A mw light shield or buckler (160 ish). If your GM allows it, consider having your holy symbol on it. That allows you to channel and cast spells without getting into fuzzy "present your holy symbol" territory.
- the basic cleric kit (holy symbol, spell component bag)

Consider a wand of Cure Light Wounds (750gp). 50 extra charges of healing until you get enough casts per day to not need it anymore.

A scroll of invisibility purge (150gp). You will need it one day, and be very happy when you do, but it's not good enough for your very few daily level 2 slots.

2 scrolls of remove sickness (2 x25gp). This supresses nausea, disease and sickened for 10 minutes and gives a +4 bonus against saves against new effects. It allows you to return a debuffed friend to the fight.

These stack with anti-toxins and anti-plagues, which is just great. If someone gets diseased

Also read the Heal skill real well, it solves more than you think.

Don't sweat exactly what you buy, income increases rapidly by level.

Have fun!

[Lady-J]

either aasimar or human(or in the unlikely event the dm oks it svirneblin, its better then dwarf tho you get a str penalty and an additional -2 cha) focus on summoning and battle field control and you should be good

[Matt2VK]

Can we get some more background on your game? As in what other classes, your deity/alignment, and maybe a bit on GM play style (is it combat heavy, lots of social/roleplaying, or a combo of the two.

Stats - Before racial modifiers
STR 7 (-4) you're going end up being a cloth wearing pansy
DEX 14 (5) You want a decent dex for init & reflex
CON 12 (2) Want it higher but you hope to be hiding behind the party bruisers. So hopefully wont need it that high.
INT 12 (2) extra skill point, yah! This doubles the class skills.
WIS 16 (10) Clerics don't really need a high WIS do to their buffing spells being a lot more effective then spells to nuke your enemies.
CHA 14 (5) Only go with this if you end up being the party face and/or have 4 or more party members. Large parties make channeling go farther and with the Feat: Selective Channel you can exclude 2 enemies.

This is not a combat build. If you want to help out in combat, you more up to a ally and tag them with a Bit of Luck from your luck domain. This will improve there damage by a lot. Specially if they're a archer and have the build to shoot twice in a round.

Feats -
These are the top two and everything else depends a lot on the type of cleric you want to build.
Selective Channeling
Improve Intitiative (You want to be fast to get your buffs off before anyone else can go)

Toughness (more health is always good)
Skill Focus UMD (this is a hard choice. Lots of good first level wands out there that this opens up but your lack of skill ranks hurts this.)
Extra Traits (if you're playing with these. Lots of good ones out there, just not sure if they're in the books you're playing with)
-traits: give initiative, make UMD a class skill, grants a +1 to channels per day - check to see if GM allows.

Scribe Scroll CHECK WITH YOUR GM ON THIS. Lots of games can get wrecked with the crafting feats and Leadership feat

[tonyz]

Clerics shouldn’t really need UMD for a while -there are huge numbers. Of spells they have that are great on wands, so unless you want to be using wands from another list, you don’t need this. You’re very skill-starved anyways.

[Vicon]

SanderJK wrote:

A dwarf could be a good choice if you want to go defensive, though you give up some channel and luck domain uses with the cha penalty. The bonus to saves, which you can change to +4 with the Steel Soul feat make it more likely that you're not suffering from what the party is. (In general, will > fort > refl are orders of importance for this). And it allows you to feat in heavy armor and still move 4 squares once you have the gold, which allows for a really low dex."

SanderJK -- how would you spend the 20 point buy if you were going for a low dex and plate-mail to start with? I think this sounds very compelling to me.

[Slim Jim]

Quote:

I'm starting a new campaign with a new group and really want to shine as a support cleric. I'm restricted to basic and APG

That's...eh, limiting. Ask the GM if some other "older" books are also OK. I.e., your vintage 2011 stuff like Ultimate Combat.[quote[I've read one of the class guides but I'm still ultra-nervous and want to make the best of optimizing my character within the parameters I've already chosen. I'm particularly concerned about how I should do my point buy/attribute points as 20 is a lean number compared to what I've been used to.20pt-buy is actually quite solid, and it sharpens your mind as to how to squeeze maximum bonuses out of your starting+racial attributes.

Quote:

My character will have luck and Liberty domains

Hello, Desna!

Quote:

...the character will be human, (or possibly dwarf if there is a really good reason over a human cleric)

My first advice is don't be slow. Slow(-moving) is boing and, occasionally, is responsible for getting you killed. Second advice: don't usurp the fighter role (expect that all smart bad guys will target casters such as yourself; if you put yourself on the front line, they will ignore the fighters and paste you into an oil-slick instead; if allies die after you "went first", expect fellow players to be glowering at you). It's also dull being a second-class fighter with no feats.

~ ~ ~

This isn't exactly what you requested, but it's close enough to give you some ideas:

Halfling Cleric of Erastil (15,15,12,12,12,10 20pt array)

STR- 8
DEX+ 14
CON: 12
INT: 14
WIS: 15
CHA+ 16

-- Being a halfling gives us a +1 attack and AC without having to sack point-buy to pay for it, and accesses half-weight armor. This lets us ignore the physical attributes and pump the mental ones. As a divine caster, wisdom is necessary, and as a party healer whose main "emergency" contribution is Channeling, charisma is also necessary. (Having high bonuses to social skills doesn't hurt either.)

Halfling racial alternate: Outrider
Traits: Exalted of the Society, Magical Knack (cleric)

01 Cavalier [Gendarme:Mounted Combat][Order of the Dragon], Improved Initiative, (Mount:pick dog)

-- I like to start clerics with a multiclass dip at 1st-level into a martial class. This particular combination....

* doubles move on a mount (who also carries your stuff)
* adds Perception and Survival to your class skill list
* acquires martial weapon proficiencies
* ignores armor-check penalties

02 Cleric1 [Erastil:Animal(Feather)/Plant]

-- Add barkskin and a ton of fun druid control spells to your list as well as featherfall and fly, and pick up some nice movement bonuses in those rare instances you need to be dismounted.

03 Cleric2 Selective Channeling

-- The party cleric's most important feat.

At 1st-level, put one skill rank into each of Climb, Handle Animal, Perception, Ride, Swim, Survival. At 2nd, put ranks into Diplomacy, Perception, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft. At 3rd, put ranks into Bluff, Heal, Perception, and Ride. You can make DC10 knowledge checks untrained in PFS, so you can wait to fill those in. Ride and Perception are your most important skills; keep them maxed. You get bonuses from Halfling (Outrider). Buy masterwork tools for your skills.

...going forward

04 Cleric3 2nd, WIS>16
05 Cleric4 [Animal Domain:Animal Companion], Boon Companion

-- the Animal domain's animal companion feature kicks in (it can be anything), and you pick up Share Spells for it (cavalier mounts don't receive it). The level -3 penalty is eliminated by Boon Companion.

~ ~ ~

Cavalier Skill List: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Order of the Dragon Skill List: Perception (Wis) and Survival (Wis)

Cleric Skill List: Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)

Equipment (3000gp to spend)

* Handy Haversack (2k)
* chainmail (unenhanced)
* buckler
* scale barding, saddle, and tack for mount
* net (cord tied to saddlehorn)
* lots and lots of cheap scrolls
...you don't own a melee weapon (aside from a plain dagger and a dinner fork); you avoid melee, and cast inflict when you can't.

[skulky]

Vicon, you mention support as a role, but do you plan on being more of a caster or melee?
Dwarf cleric is kind of iconic/classic. They have some great racial weapons that have reach. A reach cleric is a great support build, and good use of action economy as well. You cast buffs as your standard action and position yourself for attacks of opportunities to get bonus attacks on the enemies turn.
I second steel soul as being a great feat, and with being a wisdom based class along with dwarven stat bonuses you’ll have great will and fortitude saves.
I’d say stat array of: Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 8
Feats
1 combat reflexes
3 improves initiative

[Vicon]

With such low charisma won't thank gimp my ability to use my domain powers?

I keep getting more confused.

[Vicon]

skulky wrote:

Vicon, you mention support as a role, but do you plan on being more of a caster or melee?

Dwarf cleric is kind of iconic/classic. They have some great racial weapons that have reach. A reach cleric is a great support build, and good use of action economy as well. You cast buffs as your standard action and position yourself for attacks of opportunities to get bonus attacks on the enemies turn.
I second steel soul as being a great feat, and with being a wisdom based class along with dwarven stat bonuses you’ll have great will and fortitude saves.
I’d say stat array of: Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 8
Feats
1 combat reflexes
3 improves initiative

What reach weapons are we talking about? Anything that can be used with a shield?

[skulky]

Vicon wrote:

With such low charisma won't thank gimp my ability to use my domain powers?

I keep getting more confused.

Bit of luck is 3+wisdom bonus uses per day

And liberation is 1 round per cleric level
Low charisma limits your channel uses, but I don’t find that to be something worth investing in.
My bad I was forgetting clerics don’t get martial weapon proficiency, which is what all dwarven weapons count as, but they are great, checkout the dwarven dorn-dergar which even has it’s own feat line and dwarven longhammer.

[Ryan Freire]

Vicon wrote:

skulky wrote:

Vicon, you mention support as a role, but do you plan on being more of a caster or melee?

Dwarf cleric is kind of iconic/classic. They have some great racial weapons that have reach. A reach cleric is a great support build, and good use of action economy as well. You cast buffs as your standard action and position yourself for attacks of opportunities to get bonus attacks on the enemies turn.
I second steel soul as being a great feat, and with being a wisdom based class along with dwarven stat bonuses you’ll have great will and fortitude saves.
I’d say stat array of: Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 8
Feats
1 combat reflexes
3 improves initiative

What reach weapons are we talking about? Anything that can be used with a shield?

Reach + shield usually requires some work, there aren't a lot of 1 handed reach weapons, no non-exotic 1 handed reach weapons and for non fighters shield brace requires an extra feat (shield focus).