Playing a short survival campaign where the PC's are ONLY allowed NPC classes


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


My group has expressed interest in playing a short campaign where they are all farmers or some other type of commoner. I think this would be fun. They also want to at some time play a complete survival type campaign. I recently found the Serpents Skull adventure path and the first book is a survival setting. I am thinking of combining these two ideas. My group wants a really harsh and unforgiving experience. I believe that this could provide just that. I am going to only allow base races and NPC classes. They also get to choose one trait. For the ability scores i want to limit them even more so they can see how powerful PC classes really are. My idea for rolling stats would be roll 4d6 and drop the HIGHEST number. This will ultimately give them a really weak character compared to what they are used too. I have read that the Smugglers Shiv book is not to difficult and that a good party can get through it without any issues. Anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, or tips?

Dark Archive

This is a really fun idea, and a DM of mine just ran a one-off to this effect as well. It was a blast. So having just completed this thought exercise myself, I will tell you an Expert can get pretty darn close to PC effectiveness.

Not sure if this is something to watch out for, or a mercy tip to hand out to help them along.

My build went Expert 8

Stats::

Str 8
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 9

Class skill selection::

* Linguistics
* Craft Clothing
* Craft Traps
* Handle Animal
* Stealth
* Perception
* Disable Device
* Escape Artist
* Ride
* Knowledge (Arcana)

Feats::

Skill Focus (Linguistics)
Orator
Esoteric Linguistics
Master Craftsmen

So you end up with bit of a hedge wizard build focusing on range, traps, and trained animals in combat, pulling off the occasional scroll or wand casting when you really need it. Otherwise you are the primary face man and occasional scout with a ton of languages known.


That sounds cool. Another thing i forgot to mention is that they do not know that they are doing the survival part. I just told them that they are going to play the NPC class, and they will be in the Shackles. I changed the location of the adventure because we just finished the Skull and Shackles Adventure Path and I plan on the ship that saves them being there old characters. Not telling them that they are doing the survival quest will make it interesting. If i told them then I know that they will meta game and pick craft and spells to specifically deal with surviving. Also the adventure will end when they are 4th level.

Scarab Sages

I have a level 6 Aristocrat... he's pretty damned effective too, and skill heavy. which is nice. SOunds like a great idea!


4d6-drop-highest could easily lead to characters who are below average in every stat.

I'll give it a try:
Character 1
Str 7
Con 11
Dex 10
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 4

Character 2
Str 10
Con 9
Dex 5
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 9

Character 3
Str 8
Con 11
Dex 8
Int 6
Wis 11
Cha 11

Character 4
Str 7
Con 13
Dex 13
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 8

Well, that could have gone worse, I suppose.

For a Lord of the Flies setting where a group of woefully underprepared teenagers find themselves lost in the wilderness, it might be OK.


Matthew Downie wrote:
4d6-drop-highest could easily lead to characters who are below average in every stat.

Hmmm perhaps I could give them the option of roll 4d6 drop highest or they take the basic NPC stat setup which is 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8.

Or maybe just roll 3d6 and keep all numbers with option of taking NPC basic stat. In most of my campains i like to give players the classic roll 4d6 and drop lowest or they can simply take an 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, and 8. Oddly enough my group always rolls because "they dont like having an 8 stat"

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

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I did this very thing one time for a Halloween one-shot.

The premise was a city was overrun by zombies. The players played all the regular townsfolk just trying to survive while the heroes were off somewhere else saving the day.

For me, I noticed each NPC class had an advantage:

Adept: Spell access
Aristocrat: The best gear/equipment (due to high starting wealth)
Expert: Best/most varied skills
Warrior: Best BAB

but wait, you ask, where is the Commoner? They don't have anything like that.

I saw that too and so I included the optional Hero Point system and said Commoners started with 1 extra and could have up to 5.

..because it is the common, everyman who always does the greatest/most heroic things in these stories.

Anyway, just some thoughts


I like the idea of giving the commoner something because that class is completely useless. I think I will allow a commoner to take the normal Roll 4d6 and drop the lowest or take my epic stat set of 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, and 8. Granted that may not help make the commoner appealing enough since they have bad BAB and all saves are bad. Plus they have very few skills and only 2+int skill points per level. And no weapon or armor proficiency.


Also does anyone have any idea for starting wealth? The rules for creating NPC classes has only 1 chart for wealth and at level one it is more than any normal PC class gets. Granted at all levels above that is is way less then a PC class. I'm thinking of giving them wealth as follow
Commoner 1d6x10 GP
Adept 2d6x10 GP (if you average all magic casters starting GP it equals 2.8888 GP, so round that down for an NPC class)
Expert 3d6x10 GP (Experts would be kinda akin to a rouge and since it would be an NPC class cound that down one dice)
Warrior 4d6x10 GP (Warrior is basically a fighter with half as many feats)
Aristocrat 6d6x10 or maybe 7d6x10 GP? (the wealthiest PC classes start with 5d6x10 GP, and an aristocrat would have more gold than an adventurer just starting, just not sure on how much more they should have)


moonshiner1313 wrote:

Hmmm perhaps I could give them the option of roll 4d6 drop highest or they take the basic NPC stat setup which is 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8.

Or maybe just roll 3d6 and keep all numbers with option of taking NPC basic stat. In most of my campains i like to give players the classic roll 4d6 and drop lowest or they can simply take an 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, and 8. Oddly enough my group always rolls because "they dont like having an 8 stat"

13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8 is roughly equivalent to a straight 3d6 for every stat (though you'd probably be better off rolling and hoping for at least one exceptional stat).

4d6-drop-lowest is going to get an average of something like 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9. (Your players are making a bad choice, statistically speaking.)

4d6-drop-highest is as far below the 3d6 average as the 4d6-drop-lowest is above it. So you might expect something like 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12.


I'd go old school 3d6 and keep what you roll. You got 3 threes too bad that's life. Lol


3d6 and you don't get to rearrange your stats?


Note that the adventure gives a rather dubious option of the PCs starting with all their equipment. If you plan on taking all that away, the island will be much deadlier.


roguerouge wrote:
Note that the adventure gives a rather dubious option of the PCs starting with all their equipment. If you plan on taking all that away, the island will be much deadlier.

I did see that. I plan on having them only start with the most vital equipment that they get, but allow them to acquire the rest from the shipwreck. By vital equipment I mean like their weapons and armor. My story line reason is the guy saving them only had time to drag their unconscious bodies to the boat, and since they were all really sick and literally passing out they had no time to change into their night clothes before falling asleep. This way they still have the challenge of not having their stuff but they can try and get it back, some may be damaged by the salt water depending on how they specifically say they storage it.


Matthew Downie wrote:
3d6 and you don't get to rearrange your stats?

In one of my more recent campaigns i had a player roll all ones on a 4d6 drop lowest for stats. Granted the same player also got two 18's with the rest being average. IDK why but he decided to go with a WIS of 3. He is playing a fighter with a STR of 18 and Con of 20 and almost every feat he has taken has bin toughness. he has ungodly amounts of HP but any spell caster the group fights really messes him up with anything that has a will save. Makes for some really fun role playing though. The party knows if he gets mind controlled he could potentially wipe out the party cause everyone else is kinda squishy. So they have contingencies in place like bestow curse and other spells to lower his Wis to incapacitate him if need be.


Better Idea for the Aristocrat for starting wealth! They start with a slightly modded Rich Family trait that doesn't take up their one trait I am allowing. They start with a static 1000 GP.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
moonshiner1313 wrote:
My group has expressed interest in playing a short campaign where they are all farmers or some other type of commoner. I think this would be fun. They also want to at some time play a complete survival type campaign. I recently found the Serpents Skull adventure path and the first book is a survival setting. I am thinking of combining these two ideas. My group wants a really harsh and unforgiving experience. I believe that this could provide just that. I am going to only allow base races and NPC classes. They also get to choose one trait. For the ability scores i want to limit them even more so they can see how powerful PC classes really are. My idea for rolling stats would be roll 4d6 and drop the HIGHEST number. This will ultimately give them a really weak character compared to what they are used too. I have read that the Smugglers Shiv book is not to difficult and that a good party can get through it without any issues. Anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, or tips?

FWIW, my group of moderately optimized players almost had a TPK at one point in the Smuggler’s Shiv. So, challenge-wise, you may need to pull a few punches/weaken some encounters to keep them alive.


my groups is ridiculously good at figuring and doing the impossible. In D&D 3.5 they literally, and legally, took down a CR 18 Dragon when the party was only level 6. They took forever to decide, in and out of game, what to do after killing the young dragon appropriate to their level. So to try and speed things up I dropped the mama dragon on them. Granted the group had 2 party members die and lost almost all their magical loot, and some of the reasons they killed it was my fault. Like for example not wanting to be cliche and instead of a Red dragon they fought a Green dragon. Also two of the items they had gotten through random item generation where both necklace of fireballs. And the dungeon crasher character rolled a Nat 20 on his Dungeon Crashing thing (which i told him was not an automatic success because of the situation, but instead would give him a good boost, Which he fully agreed with) and I rolled the dragons response in the open and got a NAT 1.


You will definitely be providing an 'unforgiving experience', though it sounds awesome.

I have to say that Souls for Smuggler's shiv will eat up a bunch of NPC classes I think. It can be pretty hard for regular PCs. I'm sure GM variation probably factors into its "hardness" extremes.

Now, if you are going to keep the rest of the NPCs around and take away the end-game part of the adventure (since it is really only applicable to continuing Serpent's Skull), then it should work out better. Though, there are still going to be serious challenges among the remaining inhabitants, especially the unnatural ones.

I highly recommend Heart of the Jungle if you want to provide more of a survival experience. There are lots of extra diseases and hazards that would be great to incorporate and are not mentioned in the module, especially the jungle diseases.

You should read the Serpent's Skull Obituaries thread (obviously spoilers) if you want to challenge your notion of the "easiness" of Souls for Smuggler's Shiv.

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