Strong Arm (Su) As a swift action, you can increase the damage die of your weapon by one step for a number of rounds per day equal to your HD. These rounds need not be consecutive.
Would this boon from Falayna stack with the war priests sacred weapon ability? Also would it stack with Strong Jaw? Thanks all.
Maybe? While it doesn't say they don't stack, iirc *somewhere* you could only have one virtual size increase and one real one. Might have been just a houserule in one of my games though.
I initially thought that, but unlike Lead Blades this ability doesn’t reference a size change, just a direct increase to damage step.
Indeed, that is why I am unsure also
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It will stack with sacred weapon or a monk's UAS, because those actually set the weapon's base damage dice, but not with Strong Jaw, as both are implicit effective size increases.
Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?
As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).
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Damage dice increases do not work with Sacred Weapon.
Sacred Weapon is based solely on the size of the Warpriest.
Say you have a +1 Impact Longsword (2d6 damage).
In the hands of a medium-sized Warpriest, you choose either 2d6, or whatever the size chart shows for that level of Warpriest.
Lead Blades, Improved Natural Attack, Strong Jaw, all of them increase the damage of the weapon. You then choose the better between that and the Warpriest chart.
Is that a FAQ? I don't see why it should be different than a monk's UAS, and Strong Jaw etc certainly work for that.
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That does not work, either, as far as I understand it.
For the Warpriest specifically, though, this question comes up fairly often (and did during the Playtest). It's worded the way it is to eliminate any ambiguity.
Otherwise every Warpriest would default to using a Bashing Shield (+2 size increases).
The Monk may be different, but I don't see why it would be.
Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is.
Since its effective size increase is to the person, not their weapons, and monk and warpriest damage both explicitly increase with the person's size, strong jaw works fine whether or not lead blades does.
I'm not terribly interested in how PFS monks play.
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Strong Jaw is an "effective size increase" to the weapon itself ("Each natural attack").
It is not an "actual size increase" to the user, which is what matters for Monks and Warpriests.
So, for example, a Warpriest with Sacred Weapon (Unarmed Strike) can choose between 1d3 (the damage of a medium-sized Unarmed Strike) or 1d6 (the damage of a medium-sized Warpriest).
Drinking a potion of Strong Jaw increases the effective size of their Unarmed Strike. They can now choose between 1d6 (the damage of a huge-sized Unarmed Strike) or 1d6 (the damage of a medium-sized Warpriest).
Same for Monks.
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Magic weapon affects the weapons (such as natural attacks). You can tell because it says "Target: weapon touched."
Strong jaw affects the creature. You can tell because it says "Target: creature touched."
That makes it an effective size increase for the creature, not the weapon. Since monk/warpriest damage depends on their own size, they deal the damage for the larger size.
No.
An "actual" size increase, like Enlarge Person or Righteous Might, is what you'd need.
Cite.
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Cite.No.
An "actual" size increase, like Enlarge Person or Righteous Might, is what you'd need.
It's in the FAQ I linked earlier.
We now have a solid definition and distinction between an "actual" size increase and an "effective" size increase.
The target line of the spell does not matter. The effect is described as an "effective" size increase.
You're bolding the wrong words.
The FAQ says nothing about "and only actual size increases count." Where are you getting that?
To give a proper cite to the rules:
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table 1–14; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made.
It would work for a monk though, as a Monk sets the weapon damage to be increased. Warpriest though specifically states that it isn't from the weapon, but from the Warpriest's level and size. So you'd have to increase the Warpriest's size and not the weapon's size (ex. Enlarge person or an ability that states "the character is treated as large for all purposes").
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To give a proper cite to the rules:
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table 1–14; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made.It would work for a monk though, as a Monk sets the weapon damage to be increased. Warpriest though specifically states that it isn't from the weapon, but from the Warpriest's level and size. So you'd have to increase the Warpriest's size and not the weapon's size (ex. Enlarge person or an ability that states "the character is treated as large for all purposes").
Or an ability that states "the character is treated as Large for purposes of his natural attacks." Like, for instance:
Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is.
(Of course, for warpriests that's only relevant if they made some of their natural attacks sacred, but it's what we were arguing about.)
Bear, the rules for the classes themselves say nothing about what kind of size increase, actual or effective, is required to increase their damage. Therefore anything that says "this makes everything work as if the character were Huge" makes them do damage as if they were Huge.
The problem with Strong Jaw is that the first part of the sentence isTo give a proper cite to the rules:
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table 1–14; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made.It would work for a monk though, as a Monk sets the weapon damage to be increased. Warpriest though specifically states that it isn't from the weapon, but from the Warpriest's level and size. So you'd have to increase the Warpriest's size and not the weapon's size (ex. Enlarge person or an ability that states "the character is treated as large for all purposes").Or an ability that states "the character is treated as Large for purposes of his natural attacks." Like, for instance:
Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is.(Of course, for warpriests that's only relevant if they made some of their natural attacks sacred, but it's what we were arguing about.)
Bear, the rules for the classes themselves say nothing about what kind of size increase, actual or effective, is required to increase their damage. Therefore anything that says "this makes everything work as if the character were Huge" makes them do damage as if they were Huge.
Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is.It also goes on to say
This spell does not actually change the creature’s size; all of its statistics except the amount of damage dealt by its natural attacks remain unchanged.
This leads me to believe that the Warpriest Damage wouldn't increase as it is not the damage from the natural attacks, but the damage from the Warpriest Sacred Weapon class feature.
TrinitysEnd, can you expand on what you meant earlier about (I think) how this does work for a monk? That damage is also based on size and level.
The wording mostly. Sacred Weapon replaces the damage your weapon deals. Monk on the other hand sets your unarmed damage to a certain thing, determined by size of the monk.
The damage dealt by a monk’s unarmed strike is determined by the unarmed damage column on Table 1–2: Monk.
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type... The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made.
The Warpriest instead replaces the weapon damage with the Sacred Weapon dice rather than setting the Weapon's damage dice to it, like the monk does. Thus making it so that virtual size increases to their fists, such as Lead Blades (because Monks treat their fists as manufactured), still work for monks, but casting Lead Blades on the Warpriest's weapon is only modifying the weapon's dice, which is then replaced if it is lower than the sacred damage.
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This is indeed a case of the wrong section being bolded.
The natural attacks themselves are being affected.
As I explained earlier, that would increase an unmodified d3 to a d6, but it would not affect a Monk or Warpriest's d6, since that is based solely on their class level and size.
And since I'm just repeating myself at this point, and you disagree anyways, I'll leave it at that.
This isn't new information. It's been discussed ad nauseum since the Warpriest came out.
This isn't new information. It's been discussed ad nauseum since the Warpriest came out.
Yes, and been the subject of massive disagreement and multiple FAQ requests, so there's no evidence in that that you're right.
The wording mostly. Sacred Weapon replaces the damage your weapon deals. Monk on the other hand sets your unarmed damage to a certain thing, determined by size of the monk.
Hmm, not sure I've come across that distinction before. I will have to meditate on it. Thanks for the explanation.