First time playing, what class to choose?


Advice


Hi, this is my first time posting here. I am about to start a campaign with my friends and I really don't know which class to choose, there are so many, also counting all the different archetypes...
We are a big group, we will have a Gunslinger, Witch, Kineticist, Shaman and a Paladin/Fighter. This is also my second time playing RPG, I have a Druid on 3.5. So what do you suggest as a fun but effective class even a beginner can use? I'm willing to try almost everything (not Druid, Summoner or Barbarian tho)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

With that setup I would definitely recommend a Bard, as you'll make everyone else on the team better at what they do without stepping on any particular toes. You can tweak the archetypes and your stat selection to give you an edge in other areas depending on what you want your role to be.


An excellent beginner martial class is Slayer. It can be a straight-up combat class, it can be sneaky and roguish, and it's more general-use than a Ranger because of Studied Target instead of Favoured Enemy/Terrain. It's got a decent number of skill ranks per level, too.
Bard, as said, is good for that party composition, it's very simple and easy to maintain a nice Inspire Courage while in other ways depending on situation, and you get some of almost everything with 3/4 BAB letting you attack, loads of skills, healing spells to top off HP or provide emergency aid, additional buffs to make your allies even better, debuffs and debilitations, and damage spells to... well, damage.

I feel like Slayer and Bard are two of the best written classes in the game and fit nicely for someone starting up.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Ranger.

Ranger has a really good chassis (Full Base Attack Bonus, Good Fortitude and Reflex Saving Throws, 1d10 Hit Dice, 6 skill points per level, and the skills are the kind that new players tend to use a lot, like Climb and Stealth and Swim, skills that help you notice stuff, like Perception and Survival, some fun animal skills like Handle Animal and Ride, and a few Knowledges, and ways to be kind or mean, like Heal and Intimidate) and it introduces lots of Pathfinder rules sub-sets as it levels.

1. Favored Enemy (learn about creature types, encourages you to work with your Game Master about what kind of monsters to expect), Track (encourages you to look for clues), Wild Empathy (teaches you that there are non-combat methods of conflict resolution).

2. Combat Style (learn there are several ways to fight, but doesn't force you to choose from a million options)

3. Endurance (you can sleep in armor! Plus be tough in lots of situations), Favored Terrain (you learn about different terrain types)

4. Nature Bond (you get a pet to fight for you and scout for you, or you learn how to lead you allies in combat by buffing them against your favored enemies), Spells (you learn to cast a few really useful spells).

5. Favored Enemy improvement

6. Another bonus combat style feat.

Rangers also get all Simple and Martial weapons, Light and Medium Armor, and Shields (except tower shields).

Rangers are good at combat and excellent at exploration, and they can be pretty good at social interactions, especially with their favored enemies.

If you don't want any magic, the Slayer class has many of the advantages of the Ranger class, and might be even easier to run, since it doesn't have spells and its "attack power" isn't based on creature type. And it gets Sneak Attack, which is fun when you get to use it.


SmiloDan wrote:


If you don't want any magic, the Slayer class has many of the advantages of the Ranger class, and might be even easier to run, since it doesn't have spells and its "attack power" isn't based on creature type. And it gets Sneak Attack, which is fun when you get to use it.

Precisely. It also means you don't have to manage a second character (the animal companion) or wrestle with the rules revolving around such. Slayers even get access to Ranger Combat Styles via Slayer Talents.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

The post monster ate my long Edit full of tactics and commentary....

Anyways, the Slayer is awesome. It's a fighter/ranger/rogue all rolled into one. Your party could use nature skills, stealth and mobility skills, and another front line combatant. You have 2 ranged specialists and 2 spellcasters already.

A Bard would work really well too, since 4/5 of your other party members use attack rolls. I would suggest a reach build using Combat Reflexes + a longspear, standing between the main fight and the squishies.

EDIT:

With a big party, the animal companion is probably a waste of time, literally. It will take up too much time. Another uptick for the Slayer.


Thanks to all of you guys, I'm gonna read about Slayer and Bard in detail and choose.


My 2cp are:
- Between shaman and witch you have some healing, and the other two are probably ranged types, leaving the paladin as the only melee. So going melee isnt a bad idea, especially as melees are most effective damage dealers, when supported by casters.
- Slayer is a good idea. It is an effective melee type with some skills and no baggage.
- Bard is meh. Yes, it is an awesome support, but somewhat boring for the player. You also need a worling knowledge of your options and spells.
- With this setup you can also try something like cleric/wizard/mystic theurge, if you like to play broadbabd casters.
- A straight ranger would work well, too, going for dual-wield style. Maybe there is an intersting archetype out there too?
- A fighter can be awesome, but requires some knowledge about how things work, so you can make effective use of those bonus feats and archetypes.
- If you prefer a full caster instead, you can take a look at the psychic from Occult Adventures.


The easiest class to play is Cleric. The bulwark of a Cleric's power is a list of spells you can completely change your mind about every in-game day, so you can experiment without fear of ruining your character build. Plus, everyone else in the party likes a healer.

I don't know a lot about Kinetisists, but I do see a Witch, a Shaman, and a Paladin, so I guess the party doesn't need a healer?

Your party doesn't have a Skill Monkey. Maybe be a Ninja/Arcanist or something and become an Arcane Trickster eventually?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Bards, rangers, and slayers are skill monkeys that also bring other aspects to the table. Bards are really good at making everyone else better. Rangers and slayers are solid combatants. Rangers can be emergency healers, since they can use wands of cure light wounds.

Clerics are great introductory spellcasters, for exactly for the reasons listed by Scott Wilhelm. In addition, clerics can do more than just cast spells, since they can fight and wear good armor. And while they are usually healers, they don't have to be.

If you have guidance from other players or the GM, oracles and sorcerer (and bards!) are easy to play since you don't have to pick spells every day, since you just have a limited number of spells known.


I'm sorry but there has been a change, we don't have a Paladin anymore but an Antipaladin. I was quite convinced about being a Slayer tho, now I am not so sure, maybe Cleric would be better without a Paladin?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

The shaman, witch, and antipaladin can still heal, so you don't need to be a cleric. Do kineticists get any healing ability? Paladins are great healers, but they really shine as self-healers. There are already 3 healing-capable party members, so don't feel obligated to fill in the "healbot" role.

The party is very balanced, so you really can choose any class and still contribute.

So it comes down to what your play style is. Do you want to be a skill-using primary combatant, or a spell-using secondary combatant?

The slayer will definitely be easier to play, but you might learn more playing the cleric, if only because you'll have to learn pretty much everything you will need to know to play the slayer plus spells.

If this is your first ever PF character, I would suggest the slayer. They're really solid classes, and in my experience, most new players like doing things the slayer does well, particularly trying to do things that are covered by skills. I would suggest putting a skill rank into Acrobatics and/or Climb, Perception, Stealth, and Survival. All the other skill choices are real solid, too. Personally, I like to max my skill ranks in almost all my skills, but I like to leave 1 skill point per level to dabble in a bunch of different skills to increase my versatility. Remember, 1 rank in a class skill gives you a +4 bonus to those skill checks.


Yeah, I'm definitely gonna go with the Slayer. It can be played either as melee or ranged, right?


denvicar wrote:
Yeah, I'm definitely gonna go with the Slayer. It can be played either as melee or ranged, right?

Correct. The playstyle you'll want will depend on what the other classes will do. Chances are, you'll be melee, since the Witch, Gunslinger, and Kineticist are most likely ranged combatants, with the Shaman being a wild card, and the Paladin being most likely the main frontliner. A 3/4-1/2 ratio is a little sketchy to endorse being a ranged combatant. This means that, chances are, your party needs a second frontliner to support the Paladin so that he isn't in the thick of it by himself. Even with optimized Lay On Hands, he can get eaten alive quite easily.

To that end, I would suggest going TWF with Kukris. With the Ranger Combat Styles, you won't need to worry too much about the Dexterity requirements (should need no more than 15 Dexterity, though having 16 Dexterity is nice for added AC, Initiative, Reflex Saves, and so on), and you'll have more opportunities to trigger Sneak Attack and Studied Target benefits with the added number of attacks you make.

Stats, assuming 20 Point Buy and pre-racials, should be as follows:

Str 16
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 7

You'll want a race that can give a Strength boost; the 18 Strength makes a big deal early on. Putting all of your level up points into Strength for added offensive capabilities is highly recommended. Favored Class should go into Hit Points. Human is nice for the bonus feat and skill point (though with all those skill points from your class, switching that out for Dimdweller to get Darkvision is huge as well).

Another good choice is Half-Elf for added defensive benefits versus most spells that you're weaker against.

For feats (*assuming just Class bonus feats), they should be as follows:

1. Two-Weapon Fighting
2. Double Slice*
3. (Any)
4. Weapon Focus (Kukri)*
5. (Any)
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting*
7. (Any)
8. Improved Critical (Kukri)*
9. (Any)
10. Two-Weapon Rend*
11-20. (Any)

You'll want to start off with TWF for your first level feat right away (hence the 16 Dexterity starting out), so you can get more attacks against enemies with low AC. It's also a starting point so you can grab Double Slice at 2nd level, and make your TWF schtick much more potent.

For your 4th level talent, pick up Weapon Training for a free +1 to hit as the Weapon Focus feat; TWF hurts your to-hit a lot, so shoring that up is crucial. The 6th level talent should be your second Combat Style choice, and should pick up Improved Two-Weapon Fighting for the added iterative. 8th level should be your Combat Feat talent, and is just the level where Improved Critical becomes available, so I suggest you nab it right away. If you don't, and want a different talent instead, you can delay Improved Critical to 9th level. Your 10th level talent should be your final Combat Style choice, which I recommend Two-Weapon Rend, granting bonus damage if you connect with at least one primary and one off-hand attack, and dealing damage equivalent to the Rend ability, which is great for shoring up those rounds where your iteratives bite the bullet.

For your regular level feats, they can be anything you want, and because those feats can be used for anything, they can be used for utility choices, or for certain generic Combat options. Power Attack isn't bad, though it doesn't scale that well for TWFers, and incurs even more penalties to your attacks, so I'd advise against it unless you have a dedicated buffer in your party. The Possessed Hand into Hand's Autonomy gives you an effective +3 to your attacks for the cost of two feats, and lets you do some interesting stuff if you're locked down. Accomplished Sneak Attacker is a great feat to take since you have a reduced Sneak Attack progression, and you're going a route that specializes in triggering on-hit effects (like Sneak Attack), but I wouldn't recommend it until 5th or 7th level, where the feat's benefits actually take place. Iron Will is great for making sure your Will Saves aren't utter garbage when the baddies try to Charm/Hold/Dominate you. With a fairly high Dexterity, taking things like Improved Initiative (to go first in each round to Study an enemy before combat actually begins) or Combat Reflexes (to make all enemies pay for trying to cheese attacks of opportunity from you) are also viable options. There are many other feat options to take, so I'd suggest you look them over and see what catches your eye.

For skills, Perception is a must. Stealth is also preferable, since getting the drop on enemies means you're much more potent with TWF options, and especially Sneak Attack on top of it. I'd only recommend Acrobatics if you are going to be wearing Light or Mithril Medium Armor, because it can't be used otherwise. You should have at least one Knowledge skill, probably Local since the other party members will have Nature, Arcana, Planes, etc. From there, you have at least 2 more skill points to work with whatever you want, or 3 if you ditch Acrobatics.


denvicar wrote:
Thanks to all of you guys, I'm gonna read about Slayer and Bard in detail and choose.

I'm with TOZ; do the bard. Pick up the Flagbearer feat and a Banner of the Ancient Kings when gold permits. Have decent dexterity, hang the banner on a longspear, do the typical bard stuff on your turn, then make AoOs off-turn with Combat Reflexes.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

If you select kenku/tengu (I forget which it is) as your race, you can be proficient in all sword-type weapons, like wakizashi (which are like kukri that do 1d6 damage) and bastard sword (which you can two-weapon fight with or two-handed weapon fight with. I like bastard sword & throwing axe, cause you can throw the axe, then two-handed fight). It would also give you a natural attack (beak), that you can use to sneak attack with also.

If you go two-weapon fighting and get a natural attack, be advised you will need a lot of dice! :-D

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