Arcane bond, Storing glove

[Jason Wedel]

If a character has a "hand held" Arcane bond (Weapon, wand, etc...) and a storing glove, is the item considered "In hand" while in the glove

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Nope.

It's "In Gloves of Storing," not "In hand." If it was "in hand," you'd be able to use it like you would any other item in your hand without the Gloves of Storing.

If items stored in the Gloves of Storing were considered "in hand," then the item basically gives you a permanent 3rd arm to utilize stuff that you normally couldn't. (Multi-weapon Fighting, perhaps?) Heck, you could even attack with a weapon stored in there without it even being out, which is obviously not intended to work.

So, no. The RAI wouldn't allow it, and I'd certainly not allow that kind of cheese at my table. I prefer my tables lactose intolerant...

[Jason Wedel]

I am trying to be careful with how I say this, so if I am offensive or seem to be belittling your response I assure you it is not intended to be any type of attack

I disagree with you on the consequences of allowing this & the level of cheese. However I suspect you might be right about the rules. I wonder if I was clear of the intent however, as by your response I think you think I am talking about more than I am. In practice what I am talking about is making the "slot" go from "in-Hand" to well "hands". I would not expect it to be "Wielded" while in glove.

Let's look at something a little odd as an example of a similar effect: there is a magic item called the STINGING STILETTO. Basically a dagger that could turn into a ring or necklace...would you allow it to function as an arcane bond in any of it's forms? or only while "in hand"?

[Pizza Lord]

Would you allow someone with a glove of storing (worn in the hand slot) to store a gauntlet of rust and have them both considered to be in the hand slot (aside from the glove of storing's explicit restriction on using a second glove, of course)?

The stinging stiletto would work because it is considered a weapon at its base (despite using Craft Wondrous Item rather than Craft Magic Arms and Armor). Weapons are permitted (as are rings or amulets, 'necklaces' not so much.) You could have a bonded item that was a ring which also turns into an iron hat or even a tent. You could not have a hat that that turned into a ring or a weapon as a bonded item, however (rules-wise, if your GM allows it, it probably wouldn't be overpowering assuming the item it mimicked wasn't overpowered).

[Jason Wedel]

honestly: Probably. The rust effect would only work while "out" however. Just like with the bond I would not allow a wand of MM to cast the missiles (but would not make the character roll concentration and probably allow the one extra spell). Note that it is hand v. in hand

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Jason Wedel wrote:

I disagree with you on the consequences of allowing this & the level of cheese. However I suspect you might be right about the rules. I wonder if I was clear of the intent however, as by your response I think you think I am talking about more than I am. In practice what I am talking about is making the "slot" go from "in-Hand" to well "hands". I would not expect it to be "Wielded" while in glove.

Let's look at something a little odd as an example of a similar effect: there is a magic item called the STINGING STILETTO. Basically a dagger that could turn into a ring or necklace...would you allow it to function as an arcane bond in any of it's forms? or only while "in hand"?

Still doesn't work that way. Once you store it in the Gloves, it's not usable until you draw it out. Here's the full description:

Gloves of Storing wrote:

This device is a single leather glove. On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears. The item can weigh no more than 20 pounds and must be able to be held in one hand. While stored, the item has negligible weight. With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears. A glove can only store one item at a time. Storing or retrieving the item is a free action. The item is shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen. Spell durations are not suppressed, but continue to expire. If the glove’s effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly. A glove of storing uses up the wearer’s entire hands slot. The wearer may not use another item (even another glove of storing) that also uses the hands slot.

The point is that even if you argue it's still in your hand, I'll remind you of the item size rules, where if something is too small it's not usable for someone of a certain size. In this case, the weapon or item is so tiny that it's not properly wieldable, which means it fails the "in hand" requirements. So while stored, a Metamagic Rod couldn't be used on the grounds that it's too small for use, for example.

Also note that trying to fit multiple gloves to use their effects won't work because the gloves outright say you can't use other hand slot items while they are worn.

For the stiletto, the item itself is originally a weapon, so yes, it'd work across all forms.. Glamer and transmutation effects don't discount its original effects, but keep in mind that stuff which require it to be "in hand" won't work if you're simply wearing it as something that isn't in your hand. Which is basically what the Gloves of Storing is doing.

[Jason Wedel]

Well, there goes that idea, funny thing is, it really DOES NOT MATTER, as the only goal in this was a style thing (As free actions I can summon the bond, cast, then send it back,,,)

[Pizza Lord]

Jason Wedel wrote:

Well, there goes that idea, funny thing is, it really DOES NOT MATTER, as the only goal in this was a style thing (As free actions I can summon the bond, cast, then send it back,,,)

This is true, but in the case of a ring or amulet, you would have to then spend a move action putting it on or wearing it and another removing it. If the bonded item is a weapon, it would work, but then you wouldn't have a weapon available for taking AoOs or benefiting from other qualities the weapon may have. You could certainly hold another weapon in your other hand to use for such things, but then you wouldn't have a free hand for casting when you have your arcane bonded item in you other hand (unless you use a move action or Quick Draw to retrieve the one after storing the other.) I mean, as a wizard you probably aren't depending hugely on your AoO ability, but it is an example of missing out on certain benefits. You may as well just take a ring or amulet and have it enchanted if not by yourself (with your free crafting feats in relation to it) then by a normal enchanter like any other equipment you would have at your wealth level.

[Jason Wedel]

I was more concerned with casting out of combat, did not want to worry about the 20+ concentration out of combat.