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1. Only the first d6 is multiplied: "this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike"
2. A bomb can do precision damage to a target directly hit by the bomb but that won't effect the splash damage in any way.
3. I'm pretty sure it's only supposed to work with direct hits and not splash damage. As written though, it looks like it would apply to both. Ask your GM.
On a crit, static bonuses are multiplied. Bonus dice are not.
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1. Only the first d6 is multiplied: "this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike"
2. A bomb can do precision damage to a target directly hit by the bomb but that won't effect the splash damage in any way.
3. I'm pretty sure it's only supposed to work with direct hits and not splash damage. As written though, it looks like it would apply to both. Ask your GM.
On a crit, static bonuses are multiplied. Bonus dice are not.
2. Except the rules say that Alchemist bombs are treated as Splash Weapons and the rules for Splash Weapons specifically state you can't use precision damage, such as Sneak Attack, with them.
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what if you use the "Targeted Bomb" formula ? (Alch 1) that removes the splash damage aspect. Would it count then? Or if you used the Explosive missle discovery that attaches your bomb to a missle weapon. the weapon can crit, so can the bomb?
Bombs can crit. The rules say they can. I was talking about precision damage, which isn't the same thing.
At any rate, the Targeted Bomb Admixture doesn't say anything about bombs no longer being a Splash weapon even if it no longer has a splash effect. So 'technically' that would still be a no. However, I could see a DM allowing it as reasonable considering the overall affect.
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that is kina what i thought. The problem is they use 2 different terms- "Additional" damage - the dam= INT, and "bonus" damage - which is defined as not being multiplied on a crit. I guess you can say additional = bonus in this case (in which case all the dice are crit possible, but the static INT damage is not), but that's kinda sloppy. Guess it's my time playing CCGs has made me a grammer freak :)
Yes. Essentially every die of damage a bomb does beyond the first die of damage is considered bonus damage, so it doesn't stack with a crit. Thus if a 5th-level alchemist critted with a bomb it would do 4d6 plus double modifiers. Unfotunately, modifiers aren't easy to come by for bombs. You can get your Int mod plus Point-blank Shot. But no magic weapon bonus or other stat bonus or even Deadly Aim since that is precision damage. About the only way to get big bonus damage with a bomb is to be a Half-Orc with Alchemist as your Favored Class. So bomb crits just aren't that impressive except at low levels.
Trollbill: Where does it say that Deadly Aim is precison damage?
- Gauss
It makes its living at high levels actually. Force bombs+fastbombs+ low touch AC's result in a frenzied swath of destruction. They lack only in the long range department.
Trollbill: Where does it say that Deadly Aim is precison damage?
- Gauss
its not, but it can't be applied to touch attacks so the point is moot anyway.
Glutton: Thats what I thought too, I just didn't want to simply say he is wrong as I prefer to be polite about it. :)
- Gauss
You cannot get precision damage, such as sneak attack, on a bomb attack normally. A critical hit with a bomb multiplies the first d6 of damage, as well as the bonus damage from INT, point-blank shot, and so on. For example, if a 10th level alchemist with 20 INT and point-blank shot gets a critical hit with a bomb, it deals 6d6+12 damage. That being said, you can use a conductive ranged weapon (APG 286) to use sneak attack or similar abilities in conjunction with a bomb attack.
Geekgumbo: you can add Deadly Aim to any attack that is ranged and is not a touch attack. It is not precision damage.
Also: you can add sneak attack damage to Explosive Missile because it is a normal ranged attack weapon with a bomb attached. The sneak attack works due to the ranged attack weapon (assuming other criteria for sneak attack are met).
- Gauss
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Trollbill: Where does it say that Deadly Aim is precison damage?
- Gauss
Here's the problem, and it is one that 3.5 had as well, and was never fixxed in Pathfinder.
First, there is no glossary definition for Precision Damage nor consistant use of the term in the rules. It is a term without an exact definition.
Second, some powers that do Precision Damage do not use the words Precision Damage in their text. Sneak Attack is a prime example of this. Nowhere in the Sneak Attack rules does it use the term Precision Damage. Yet we know Sneak Attack is Precision Damage because it is always used as an example, i.e. "presicion damage (such as Sneak Attack). By this, then, we know that just because something doesn't use the term Precision Damage doesn't mean it doesn't do Precision Damage. So the only way to determine if something does Precision Damage is to look at the flavor text.
The flavor text for Sneak Attack, which we know does Precision Damage says:
If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The flavor text for Deadly Aim says"
You can make exceptionally deadly ranged attacks by pinpointing a foe's weak spot, at the expense of making the attack less likely to succeed.
As you can see, the flavor text for how the damage is done is similar, albeit, not identicial. But it does suggest that both types of attacks would deal extra damage for the same reasons.
Admittadly, this is really a DM decision, but there seems sufficient evidence to support Deadly Aim being Precision Damage. Its just a shame the rules aren't clearer on this.
Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue’s sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
Deadly Aim has no statement that it cannot critical. Other feats do have statements that they cannot critical when they are not eligible for this.
Since Deadly Aim does not have that statement it is reasonable to assume it can critical. If it can critical then it is not precision damage.
As near as I can tell, there is only one source of precision damage in the CRB: Sneak attacks. There might be others in the other books but I do not have the time to check right now.
- Gauss
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Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue’s sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.Deadly Aim has no statement that it cannot critical. Other feats do have statements that they cannot critical when they are not eligible for this.
Since Deadly Aim does not have that statement it is reasonable to assume it can critical. If it can critical then it is not precision damage.
As near as I can tell, there is only one source of precision damage in the CRB: Sneak attacks. There might be others in the other books but I do not have the time to check right now.
- Gauss
Unfortunately, the two sources I looked at in the rules, Precise Strike and Rending Claws, make reference to both precision damage and not critting. Since they seem to always pair these two together, than stating that something isn't precision damage because it doesn't say it can't crit is no more valid that saying something isn't precision damage because it doesn't say it is precision damage.
Trollbill: I was wondering if you would go that route. The rules state that precision damage is not multiplied on a critical. As a logic exercise:
If an ability states that you cannot critical then it does not mean it is precision damage but it COULD be. So: critical no = precision maybe.
Now: if an ability fails to state that it cannot critical then one of two things are true:
Either
A) it can critical in which case it is not a precision attack.
OR
B) The developers failed to note it cannot critical.
The developers have been quite good at noting which things cannot critical. Since there is no statement that it is precision damage or that it cannot critical then it is NOT precision damage.
- Gauss
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Trollbill: I was wondering if you would go that route. The rules state that precision damage is not multiplied on a critical. As a logic exercise:
If an ability states that you cannot critical then it does not mean it is precision damage but it COULD be. So: critical no = precision maybe.
Now: if an ability fails to state that it cannot critical then one of two things are true:
Either
A) it can critical in which case it is not a precision attack.
OR
B) The developers failed to note it cannot critical.The developers have been quite good at noting which things cannot critical. Since there is no statement that it is precision damage or that it cannot critical then it is NOT precision damage.
- Gauss
I agree the designers have been better about stating whether things can crit than whether they are precision damage. But the absense of consistancy with precision damage is still there, hence I feel it is a valid ruling for a DM to use flavor text in determination of Precision Damage. But I also agree your argument is a valid ruling for a DM to do just the opposite. As I said in the beginning, I think it is a DM's call.
I was well-versed in 3.5 rules but am still learning the Pathfinder ones. Paizo did an excellent job in fixxing some of the issues with 3.5. It is a shame they never fixxed this one by clarifying Precision Damage (Bonus Damage also has a similar lack of clarity).