# 9 - 07 Salvation of the Sages

[MadScientistWorking]

Justin Norvegicus wrote:

andreww wrote:

I have to say I was pleased to see an NPC finally using redacted

Casts anthaul on themselves and still needs to drag over the appropriately sized ban-hammer.

Wait a second. For all this talk about that spell why didn't they use the Occult Adventure version of it?

[FLite]

MadScientistWorking wrote:

Justin Norvegicus wrote:

andreww wrote:

I have to say I was pleased to see an NPC finally using redacted

Casts anthaul on themselves and still needs to drag over the appropriately sized ban-hammer.

Wait a second. For all this talk about that spell why didn't they use the Occult Adventure version of it?

If we are talking about what I think we are talking about (spoiler tags are a thing guys...) It would have meant reproducing 1 or 2 more pages of Occult Adventures...

The scenario is long enough as it it!

(Also, it seems like the way it is implemented in her stat block, it more or less is the OA version?)

[MadScientistWorking]

Jared Thaler wrote:

MadScientistWorking wrote:

Justin Norvegicus wrote:

andreww wrote:

I have to say I was pleased to see an NPC finally using redacted

Casts anthaul on themselves and still needs to drag over the appropriately sized ban-hammer.

Wait a second. For all this talk about that spell why didn't they use the Occult Adventure version of it?

If we are talking about what I think we are talking about (spoiler tags are a thing guys...) It would have meant reproducing 1 or 2 more pages of Occult Adventures...

The scenario is long enough as it it!

(Also, it seems like the way it is implemented in her stat block, it more or less is the OA version?)

I don't know. I'm just guessing as to what spell it is. It technically doesn't even fit the criteria as a variant of it has come up in at least one other scenario.

Quote:

(Also, it seems like the way it is implemented in her stat block, it more or less is the OA version?)

Yeah... Rereading the chapter on it the spells I think are effectively the same.

[Damien_DM]

I'll be running this on Friday. Looking forward to it! I agree there's a lot of prep.

In the final encounter, I note that the effect for the Topaz jewel specifies her alignment can be N or NE for her spells and abilities. I assume this is intended to allow her to ignore protection from evil for the purposes of spellcasting and (more importantly) malevolence.

I'm curious if anyone who has run this scenario has had her use malevolence in the final fight. Seems like a nasty thing to do, especially since standard methods (protection from evil, etc.) won't work to drive her out.

[FLite]

Does anyone have a good source of pawns for the scarab sages? I have Tahonikepsu, Sinohotep and Grand Master Torch, but I cannot find any full body images of Amenopheus or Dhiara.

[TriOmegaZero]

I'm not aware of any. I hope to see a PFS Pawns 2 somewhere down the line.

[TechGnosis]

Jared Thaler wrote:

Does anyone have a good source of pawns for the scarab sages? I have Tahonikepsu, Sinohotep and Grand Master Torch, but I cannot find any full body images of Amenopheus or Dhiara.

Where is Tahonikepsu from?

[TriOmegaZero]

Bestiary 4 pawn box.

[FLite]

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Bestiary 4 pawn box.

Alternately, the cover of the scenario if you print your own.

[FLite]

So, given that Pathfinders have been to Russia in the early 1900s, and given that Grandmaster Torch is described as having nearly inexhaustible resources, and given his pawn and what he brings to the table, and that a lot of pathfinders hate him, I am having trouble resisting the following introduction when he lands.

"Now, now, why so sour. Who isn't happy to see a jolly old man in a long red coat bringing a sack of toys? Now the question is, have *you* been a good pathfinder little _Insert name here_"

Do I get bonus points if he pulls out a list and actually checks it twice?

[Zyraen]

Some Questions

1. Incorporeal Casters

Aryana Tahari is not the first spellcasting ghost, nor will be the last. However, she is probably the most powerful of them all, and perhaps capable of casting more spells per round than even a Runelord. The burning question in my mind though is, can such spellcasters cast spells while entirely inside a wall and benefitting from total cover?

From http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/universalMonsterRules.html

Quote:

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object's exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

The section seems to imply that the incorporeal caster can in fact stand within the total cover and attack with its spells, especially those such as Cloudkill and Flaming Sphere, neither which are affected by the total concealment an incorporeal suffers from being within a wall. Since only a readied action allows an attack (penalized by cover), it is also implied that after the attack is resolved, the ghost returns into the total cover, similar to sticking a finger out and releasing a spell.

In any case starting in the open, taking note of all the enemies' positions then 5' stepping into total cover would suffice, and the next round use Life Sight to get a tab on who is where within 20'.

Meantime, the incorporeal caster would safely be in total cover and utterly immune to all but ready action attacks. If it doesn't use its move action to cast spells, it can also hide with ease elsewhere, such as attacking from the top of balconies, or from within its Cloudkill where readying an action would not detect it until the spell has been released. Even without gaining THP every round from the Diamond jewel, based on the map, this is virtually guaranteed to drag the combat on.

While I have absolutely no intention of using such tactics (nor did I use them when running other scenarios with incorporeal spellcasters), I was wondering, is this rule interpretation correct? If the interpretation is reasonable, is this the intention when facing off Aryana Tahari?

=====

2. Severing All Connections

Separately, from pdf

"After the PCs defeat Aryana Tahari, her ghost disintegrates and her pendant falls to the ground. Any sages still under her influence slowly awaken. If Tahari retained a connection to any sage jewel, it anchors her spirit to this chamber to later rejuvenate. If the Pathfinders severed all her connections through the mindscapes, Ahriman snatches her freed spirit and drags it to Abaddon."

If a party were to free 1 sage jewel per round for 6 rounds, it seems unlikely (but possible) that Aryana would still be above 0 HP, unless afore-mentioned total cover tactic was used, or simply 1-2 successful uses of Malevolence.

Is it the intention that if all 6 connections were severed, Aryana is simply automatically dragged off to Abbadon? Or would the players still have to reduce her to 0 HP, including defeating (and probably killing) whoever she inhabits via Magic Jar?

=====

3. What each Jewel does

Separately, is there any skill check the characters can make to determine what Jewels give her what benefits? The most powerful benefits in my mind are cast as a Move action and THPs. Being able to figure out which is which - and that she even has THPs! - would be critical for an average party.

Is it supposed to be discoverable via skill checks or just kept silent? I can imagine parties that deal less than 100 damage (after some casualties) might eventually wear out and perish.

=====

4. If some/all Sages Die

"If the PCs saved every sage jewel, the sages are elated, and Tahonikepsu commissions a sculpture for the sages’ sanctum to commemorate for all time the Pathfinders’ role in the salvation of the order. The faction pools its resources to restore the PCs to full health (removing any conditions and restoring dead PCs to life), and each PC receives the Savior of Knowledge boon."

Is this outcome contingent on zero sages dying / reduced to 0 HP? This seems unlikely if aforesaid stalling tactics were applied, and if the party failed a few checks by more than 5, exceptionally likely at high tier where the DCs are extraordinary.

If the above positive outcome is not negated by the death of some sages (notably those with less HP), what if all the sages were to die? It would be a real stretch for Tahonikepsu to lose 212 HP, but i can see it happening if some player's bright idea is to take out the big threat, especially if he/she doesnt have ghost touch, cant reach/find Tahari, and otherwise feels it is more optimal to simply take Tahonikepsu out of the equation.

The flip argument would be that if all the jewels survived, by definition Sinuhotep would have survived, and after he returns the above positive outcome then plays out. That seems quite a stretch though.

[Matt Duval]

@Zyraen

I'll answer as best I can for the scenario related stuff. Can't really give a good answer for incorporeal casting that isn't just my opinion.

1.

incorporeal casters:

Regarding the tactics question for this specific encounter, I think Tahari is more likely to use her malevolence ability to protect herself than to hide in the wall. Corrupting her opponents' bodies and turning their strengths against them is one of her signature things in my mind.

2.

severing all connections:

I believe you still have to defeat Tahari to win the encounter. This is just describing what happens to her spirit when you defeat her. I've accompanied the PCs' victory with a description of her scrabbling at the floor as she gets dragged through a portal into Abaddon like a Ghostbusters trap. If they don't sever all the connections before defeating her, I'd probably mention something about a lingering but quiescent malevolence in the area during the aftermath.

3.

what each jewel does:

When running it, I've described the jewels reacting when their various effects occur. So the diamond glows and shields her when PCs deal damage, the sapphire and spinel flash and deflect the PCs' magic a little when she makes a saving throw, etc.

4.

if some sages die:

I *think* that the goal specifically calls for the jewels to survive, so for purposes of the scenario, the sages themselves don't need to survive the encounter, just the gems.

I would assume if you had the odd scenario of all the sages dying, but all the gems are intact and the PCs were victorious, you'd have Sinuhotep restore himself from his phylactery and the other sages would get restored through some combination of resurrection spells or other magic through their allies. Unless the PCs go out of their way to make resurrection impossible, bringing any dead sages back after the PCs' victory doesn't seem like an insurmountable difficulty.

I hope that helps! (usual caveats about developers having final word, etc..)

[Suede]

So I've run this so far (Once at normal speed, and currently through PbP), and I'm planning to do it one more time live. I made the mistake of not warning players way ahead of time that this scenario breaks a lot of the rules.

I've also been rolling the initial save against Fading Light in secret, as I feel like it should be a surprise the first time it triggers and I wanted to avoid spoilers and ruining the thematic surprise of the horror of the disease.

I think in the future I need to preface the whole scenario with a warning that it does break the rules, bad things will happen, and that I do make some rolls in secret, because I've had a player feel he doesn't wish to continue the scenario because of the disease and the fact I made the roll for him.

And thanks Matt, I didn't do the flashing of each jewel previously or had it done when I played it, just that they all flash at the start of her turn. I think I'll change it up next time around to give the players a more clear idea of what's going on.

[BigNorseWolf]

Suede wrote:

also been rolling the initial save against Fading Light in secret, as I feel like it should be a surprise the first time it triggers and I wanted to avoid spoilers and ruining the thematic surprise of the horror of the disease.

I don't think that's really doable these days. Players have a lot of rerolls that they need a chance to use , specific bonuses, and other odd abilities.

[Suede]

Yeah, I probably should have considered that more when deciding to run it that way. It didn't even cross my mind at the time, or even this morning until you mentioned it.

[Suede]

Which has just reminded me, how would you handle the Mindscape trap, then? Since it specifically calls that they do not know they are making fort saves unless they pass their will save, and thus would be denied any chance of reroll.

[TriOmegaZero]

I just had them roll the Fort saves and then the Will without explaining what it was for. Of course, it was fairly moot given the oracle had Status up on the party and instantly knew when they were diseased or negative leveled.

[Zyraen]

Yes Matt, that is a great help! So quickly too, right before my run of the scenario tomorrow (at low tier). Thank you very much for your replies.

Looks exactly as written for post finale development, though I feel a lil bad for not Spoilering my post too. I had suspected as an enemy who casts with a move action, she would probably not move to use Malevolence, unless an enemy comes adjacent to her.

Compliments are already on the review so wont add more here lol.

Matt Duval wrote:

I'm very interested in any feedback about the difficulty of the final encounter and thoughts on challenging higher level PCs. I went through several iterations of the final spell selection and the composition of that last encounter and I'd love to hear what did and didn't work. Please feel free to PM me if it's off topic for this thread. Thank you!

Played at High Tier, so here was how it went in some detail. I was fortunate that the GM is a good friend of mine and he provided more detail.

Spoiler:

For agonizing detail / battle log

PLAYERS (high tier 5+)
L11 Magus11
L11 Monk1 Swash1 Magus9 (MainDPS)
L11 APG Summoner11 with Pounce Eidolon
L10 Gunslinger5 Wizard1 InvestigatorEmpiricist2 Bard2 (Skill Monkey)
L9 Paladin2 Gunslinger1 with 6 other-dips (Off DPS)
L7 Fighter (deadweight1)
L7 Pregen Kineticist (deadweight2)

Prior to combat, the two deadweights didn't pay attention and insisted on directly making checks instead of assisting or doing nothing, even though GM repeated right before they rolled. They also both knew (if they were paying attention, but they might not have been) that skill check DCs were very high for the scenario. Consequently we started combat with 63 points of damage, which significantly affected the combat.

( checking with GM, understand we took 25d6 damage from 5 failures at -5, and 4 of them were caused by deadweights. He handwaved some damage as he felt it would be a cheap TPK, and didnt want to punish players who brought actual characters with death through no fault of their own whatsoever, caused by players with very little to lose )

Note that we had no negative levels on us, and Tahari started 10' above ground. GM ruled Tahonikepsu's jewel was difficult to reach, 10' above ground (since she's huge and presumably upright) thus we can't simply walk next to her and enter it.

Round 1

Moving on, Skillmonkey fired on Ermias the Graveknight then MainDPS bladed dash and finished him off. OffDPS self-healed using earlier scroll of heal and repositioned to benefit from Summoner's Haste.

Tahari 1st turn, casted
- Dazing Flaming Sphere successfully dazed Eidolon
- Quickened Glitterdust. SkillMonkey and Summoner passed, Fighter and Eidolon failed
- Cloudkill on the cluster. Skillmonkey Fighter passed, Eidolon failed
Then she 5' step onto ledge next to her position.

Tahonikepsu used Breath weapon, mostly on fellow sages and MainDPS made his save.

Summoner cast Haste on allies nearby and retreated back 10 squares or so. Magus quicken vanish and fly hex. Deadweights did nothing (fighter stumbled around blindly for most part, kineticist missed firing in Tahari for 2 rounds)

Round 2

Skillmonkey freed Sinuhotep, who was nearest to him, from Mindscape. MainDPS scaled the wall to Tahari, provoked OA (17 damage Tahonikepsu) from Tahari where he riposted and beat on her.
OffDPS rode forward and full attacked, 3 bullets landed but half damage as usual. We failed to clear 100 damage but had no idea we were failing.

Tahari 2nd turn, casted
- Either Malevolence or Suffocation. I recall MainDPS made a save. Then Tahari 5' step into the air.
- Sirocco. MainDPS passed his save, thus remained up, became fatigued
- Quickened Ray of Enfeeblement. MainDPS lost some Str
Note that dazed Eidolon was still in Cloudkill and eating Flaming Sphere after it rolled back, thus died / returned to home plane.

Tahonikepsu engaged with a claw attack on Skillmonkey. ( Div did not spawn, maybe GM fiat treating as 4 player adjustment after the 2 deadweights screwed us so bigtime )

Summoner summoned 2 Bralani Azatas who shot lightning at Tahari. Magus buffed more and repositioned to get closer to Tahari, drew Wand of Bladed Dash. Deadweights flailed/failed.

I think Sinuhotep dispelled Tahari's defensive spell - maybe Shield or Mage Armor - Im not sure.

Round 3

Skillmonkey freed Amenopheus, MainDPS 5' step and carried on pounding on Tahari. OffDPS rode again and full attacked with 4 shots, better position with less penalties and most connected. We took out her 100 THPs between us and maybe dealt some actual damage.

Tahari 3rd turn
- Either Malevolence or Suffocation. I recall MainDPS made a save. Then Tahari 5' step into the air, once more she's 10' above ground
- Circle of Death. Deadweights died, good riddance. 1 Bralani was caught and also poofed.

Tahonikepsu recharged breath (probably GM discretion to compensate for Div absence) and released, killing Skillmonkey.

Summoner delayed for remaining Bralani to cast lightning, then resummoned another 2 more bralanis for 3 lightnings all in all on Tahari. Magus finally decided to wake up his idea, bladed dash forward activating his touch melee attack abilities, and (I estimate) just barely managed to burn through her HP!

Victory!

Estimated HP left
L11 Magus11 : 31 HP
L11 Monk1 Swash1 Magus9 (MainDPS) : 20 HP
L11 APG Summoner11 with Pounce Eidolon : 40+ HP
L10 Gunslinger5 Wizard1 InvestigatorEmpiricist2 Bard2 (Skill Monkey) : DEAD
L9 Paladin2 Gunslinger1 with 6 other dips (Off DPS) : 3 HP (if I didnt cast Heal with Scroll. And if I had not upgraded my Belt to add Con, i would be dead.)
L7 Fighter (deadweight1) : DEAD
L7 Pregen Kineticist (deadweight2) : DEAD

Thoughts - wonderful last fight, amazing feel to it. I thought her spell selection was really quite cool, how it was not straight out kill kill kill (although Malevolence is pretty much an instant death). It fit the mood very well. That said, without the HP damage and lack of buffs, it might have been less thrilling.

Some personal, subjective thoughts on what worked and what did not.

Spoiler:

HITS
- Dazing Flaming Sphere is great. If she starts to pace her spells out, or lose move action cast, I think it would be awesome to move it around and lol
- Glitterdust is great, especially if used later as enemies close in
- Sirocco is best used as an opening knock down. The delay due to tactics saying she uses Cloudkill and Flaming Sphere misses an opportunity, but I think thats fine given the challenge of the fight. Perhaps let players head up a bottle neck to reach her, Sirocco and fly away.

MISSES
- Contagion : not sure how this would work out, but I guess it would just be irritating at best. It doesnt even stop the spell from going off. However it is thematically perfect, so thats great
- Suffocation: seems almost strictly subpar to Malevolence, except for its range. I may try it more today's game and see how it goes
- Enervation might be better if i could catch folks flatfooted, which shouldnt be too hard with Cloudkill. Her attack bonus is dismal, albeit understandably so
- Howling Agony : no surprise this is here. Still, great fluff! Awesome match.
- Slow should be theoretically great, but so far Haste is far and away the most common L3 spell Ive seen in play. I may try it later against a party that has no real spellcasters

=====

Btw, the scenario brings up an interesting question - could it be the scars/burns are not due to someone cursing Torch, but his decision to leave them there as a constant reminder of his own failure (and also to conceal his former face)?

Just a thought, for fun / idle discussion.

[Matt Duval]

@Zyraen
I'm very glad you had a good time :) Congratulations on your victory!

Sinuhotep seems to be a real mvp in the encounter from what I've seen and read. His ability to dispel magic has been a lifesaver for multiple teams.

I very much appreciate the feedback on the spell selection and difficulty and rundown of the encounter.

Torch:

I'd agree the scars are part of the person he's become. I can't say whether that means he keeps them by choice though.

I will say, having gotten to write about his background twice now, I have a lot of sympathy for the guy. Still wouldn't trust him :)

[FLite]

I love this scenario. My players loved this scenario.

That said, that final fight is *not* 4 hour slot friendly. She has so *many* options and modifiers that I should have made an "On her turn, these things happen: And then she has these options." checklist. The party defeated her very easily because I kept forgetting various things the jewels were granting her.

Contagion was just a bad use of action economy, since to get it on a spell caster, she had to move to touch them.

[John Compton]

As a quick update, the Chronicling Salvation of the Sages thread is now unlocked and available for participants to post in response to a particular boon on the Chronicle sheet.

[thistledown]

Zyraen wrote:

Yes Matt, that is a great help! So quickly too, right before my run of the scenario tomorrow (at low tier). Thank you very much for your replies.

Looks exactly as written for post finale development, though I feel a lil bad for not Spoilering my post too. I had suspected as an enemy who casts with a move action, she would probably not move to use Malevolence, unless an enemy comes adjacent to her.

Compliments are already on the review so wont add more here lol.

Matt Duval wrote:

I'm very interested in any feedback about the difficulty of the final encounter and thoughts on challenging higher level PCs. I went through several iterations of the final spell selection and the composition of that last encounter and I'd love to hear what did and didn't work. Please feel free to PM me if it's off topic for this thread. Thank you!

Played at High Tier, so here was how it went in some detail. I was fortunate that the GM is a good friend of mine and he provided more detail.

** spoiler omitted **...

That's not even close to a victory though. You only cleaned out 2 of the 7 stones. Sure you survived, but you have to clear out all 7 stones BEFORE you kill her in order for it to be a success. And I don't know how to make that clear to the players.

[TriOmegaZero]

I actually saw no wording to suggest that the Pathfinders had to break her connection to all seven stones to win. All the scenario says is that they must defeat her without destroying too many of the jewels.

I believe that the ritual will have succeeded when referenced in future scenarios. The question is merely at what cost.

[thistledown]

In the development. "If Tahari retained a connection to any sage jewel, it anchors her spirit to this chamber to later rejuvenate. If the Pathfinders severed all her connections through the mindscapes, Ahriman snatches her freed spirit and drags it to Abaddon."

Though I see nothing in the reporting notes or success conditions to cover which way that goes. So maybe it's not important long-term after-all.

If we don't actually have to do them all, that makes this SOOOO much easier.

[TriOmegaZero]

I believe severing her from all jewels before defeating her should be an extra bragging right on top of 2PP, with the aforementioned description of her soul being claimed by Ahirman for illustration.

My table missed that by 1, as they did not have the skills to break Amenopheus free.

[Suede]

I believe the point of Sirocco, or how I used it my first time, is more for high tier. She saves it for after the Div comes (who casts Waves of Fatigue on its first round to act) so if they then fail the Sirocco save they're exhausted.

I'm not sure of Sinuhotep being the MVP, the first time I saw this run it was Torch. The bard who hated him was suffocating, he pulled a scroll of dispel out of his backpack and rolled a 25 on the CL check to dispel, saving him.

The bard was not amused.

[MeriDoc-]

3 runs:

I ran this 3 times 2x APL 11 and 1x APL 7. When I prepped it, I thought no one could survive based on my expected reaction. Oddly, all 3 tables did stellar. Time was a problem, and I shortened fight 1, and kept a lid on Part 2 to live within a 5 hour slot - it could go 8 hours if drawn out thoroughly.

I promoted the idea that simple heal/knowledge checks were insufficient to "get the stat block of the disease." Although I did give the nature of the disease. Going through the libraries revealed more of the details. Each room I had the sage comment on the horrors...which spooked the party most of the time.

I did not like a side game within a fight. It is clever, but ... slows down an already long scenario. I did use the Mal as intended, "So wretches how well do you like my new vessel"

3 spells - I did not use. Instead I went quick, mv spell, and ghost power. It seemed less likely to cause consternation for the players. (And still deadly)

It would be good to have the fort save next to the corrupting touch block.

And I prefaced the scenario with .. normal rules are east, this game is written NNW.

[jcg]

First off... And I'll post a review as well... But this was the most amazing, complicated, unique, and pure awesome scenario I've seen in PFS, outside of seeker content. Both the story and the mechanics were fabulous.

I ran this last Monday, and will be running it again this coming Monday.

Comments/Tips/Notes:

Spoiler:

* TIME MANAGEMENT - We had a six hour slot and barely finished, and had to fill out chronicles on the sidewalk in front of the store. This was a lower-tier four person run with experienced players that I constantly pushed to keep moving. Honestly this could easily go 8 hours, or even more if you wanted time to really role play the sages.

* Mnesoset - The last room (on page 22) is the first time her name is mentioned... There's a ton of names for the PCs to keep track of in the scenario. I'm assuming her gem is brought by the other sages, is that correct? If so, it might be good to mention her at the beginning when the dwarf is summoned forth from his gem. Otherwise this is a, "Wait? Who the heck is this?" moment.

* The number of persistent effects in the last fight is overwhelming between several different auras (cowardice, sacrilegious, despair, sickened), her gem powers, and duration based spells. I didn't do it last time, but I will have a chart next time of when an effect trigger for each entity in the initiative order.

* There's a lot of treasure that can be found in the shelves of the last area, but it's separated by about 4 pages of text from the part that states the "If the PCs arrive in this area early, they can explore it or return to area" and gives the description of the shelves.

* I ended up used the gem flashing suggestion above as my PCs did not make the association of her extraordinary powers with the gems.

* I really wish 9-04 had been written as a 5-9 so more characters could move from 9-04 to 9-07 in short order.

[Tessara A, the Clinohumite Sage]

I've got a question on the boon. Going back to use a star replay on beacon below seems really unfair and awkward (and rather counter-narrative). So to become a sage, I need to buy the necklace. But I already have a headband of int+4. By typical rules, I think I'd have to sell the headband at half price, then buy the necklace at full. That seems really wasteful.

Can we make use of the magic item upgrade rules to turn our existing headbands into the necklace by just paying the price difference?

[TriOmegaZero]

Unfortunately not, unless your headband has the same skills as the chronicle item. It sucks for my alchemist as well.

[BigNorseWolf]

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Unfortunately not, unless your headband has the same skills as the chronicle item. It sucks for my alchemist as well.

Even then you have the same slot and shape problem.

[TriOmegaZero]

Excellent point. I think my alchemist will just buy it for the wisdom boost. His Will save could use it.

[FLite]

Tessara Rae wrote:

I've got a question on the boon. Going back to use a star replay on beacon below seems really unfair and awkward (and rather counter-narrative). So to become a sage, I need to buy the necklace. But I already have a headband of int+4. By typical rules, I think I'd have to sell the headband at half price, then buy the necklace at full. That seems really wasteful.

Can we make use of the magic item upgrade rules to turn our existing headbands into the necklace by just paying the price difference?

Have you GMed Beacon Below? Because that is how I would probably solve it.

[thistledown]

Already GM'd it and Played it. If I play it again with a star, I'd want to use my Wyrwood, because he'd have fun talking to another construct and an intelligent undead. If I used a star as GM, I'd put it on my Dark Archive because I'm trying to level him. Or I can use a star on my Sage. But ultimately, I didn't like Beacon Below the first 2 times, and it's not something I want to use a star on.

[andreww]

I played this a couple of weeks ago and we just managed to clear out all 7 gems while the boss chased around after me trying to inflict the contagion on my poor bard.

I am now prepping it and have some questions.

How does Tahari actually cast any spells with a material component? She doesn't have eschew materials. She has no component pouch listed. Ghosts get incorporeal copies of items they valued in life so I am just going to assume she has one. On a similar note how does this impact on her arcane bond, how is she actually wearing it?

Tahari should benefit from the desecrate aura which doesn't seem to be reflected in her stats. This makes both her and Ermias's channel resistance exceptionally strong as well as giving her more health and a boost to saves and her terrible attack bonus.

Tahari has Turn Undead but doesn't qualify for it as she doesn't channel positive energy as a necromancer. Should this be command undead?

It would have been useful to know which other spells Tahari had in her old spellbooks which she could use with her arcane bond ability. I assume Amanesis is her arcane bond.

[Matt Duval]

Hmm... I thought I gave her a spell component pouch. I originally had her bonded item have the ghost touch property for the duration of the encounter. May have been dropped at some point.

Looking at it, I think it should be Command Undead. I think it defaulted to Turn when I was making the stat block and it didn't cross my mind to check it. I also neglected to factor in the desecrate and I apologize for that. I'm not sure Tahari would get the bonus HP though since she's manifesting before the antipaladin and desecrate only seems to benefit undead created or summoned after the aura is in effect.

Anamnesis is supposed to be her arcane bond, yes. I don't want to go too far out on a limb, but she probably safely had access to any CRB spell except of the Illusion and Enchantment schools.

[andreww]

Ok, having prepped this to run on Wednesday I have one last question.

In order to release a sage do you have to make the successes in a single visit or do they carry over? When I played my GM definitely required you to do them in one go but the scenario doesn't seem entirely clear on the point. It does not people can work together and combine successes in the same visit but is silent on whether or not they persist (at least as far as I can tell).

[Matt Duval]

My understanding was you had to get them in one attempt. My thinking is that they're caught in a mental loop that resets each round. So you're not penalized for prior failure but don't benefit from prior success.

[GreySector]

Suede wrote:

It's also interesting to note that anyone utilizing life bubble severely limits the threat the disease is supposed to provide for the entire middle third of the scenario.

When I played it this weekend my GM ruled that life bubble did not protect us here. I disagreed, but it would be great if Matt or one of the developers could chime in on that point.

[thistledown]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

Suede wrote:

It's also interesting to note that anyone utilizing life bubble severely limits the threat the disease is supposed to provide for the entire middle third of the scenario.

When I played it this weekend my GM ruled that life bubble did not protect us here. I disagreed, but it would be great if Matt or one of the developers could chime in on that point.

The special bits of this disease only kick in once exposed to it. Life Bubble prevents exposure, you should have been fine. However, the touch attack infections she does would bypass Life Bubble and expose you if they managed to land.

We heard 'plagues' in the mission briefing and my cleric and the arcanist both prepared Life Bubbles for everyone.

[Matt Duval]

life bubble:

I think it would protect you from the rush of diseased air at the beginning of Area B, but not when collecting samples if you're trying to make the cure since you need to physically interact with the disease and it would infect on contact [since it's inhaled/injury/contact]. The skill checks in the Curing Fading Light sidebar cover the safe collection of the disease samples.

Also now that I'm thinking about it more I feel like I missed an opportunity to write on how infected creatures spread diseases since infected creatures should be contagious [should be meaning how I think of it; I just can't find any rules about how Diseases naturally spread in the rules and was bummed I didn't spell it out].

[GreySector]

Matt Duval wrote:

I think it would protect you from the rush of diseased air at the beginning of Area B, but not when collecting samples if you're trying to make the cure since you need to physically interact with the disease and it would infect on contact [since it's inhaled/injury/contact].

The rush of diseased air is what I thought life bubble would protect us from, and it was how my character was infected.

[Matt Duval]

Hmm.. well I can see the argument. life bubble says 'including inhaled diseases and poisons' specifically, so a cloud of nasty contact poison or disease might still affect you based on that exact wording.

my opinion:

I can't give an official ruling on how life bubble works or anything. I would say at my table I would hedge on infection occurring just because it provides the impetus for the PCs seeking the cure, which is relevant later and the base version of the disease is much friendlier than the enhanced versions PCs can later experience.

[TriOmegaZero]

Life Bubble has always had that question. There is another scenario that gets pretty heavily nerfed by it, given that the hazard is mostly acidic gas that is hedged out.

[andreww]

Ran tonight. Near tpk. I allowed the life oracle to run away. More details tomorrow.

[andreww]

Also I may have a permanently dead witch.

[andreww]

OK, I ran this last night and it was a disaster. After action report below but I have a few extra questions and comments.

The khopesh found in the first encounter is a regular +2. It is enhanced on the chronicle and the scenario says there is a way to access that empowered version but there is nothing on the chronicle saying how.

To create a cure you have to have a sample of the plague. There are two places noted in the cure sidebar. However, there is no reference to how to acquire a sample in one of them and in fact the disease there is quite different.

Flubbing the ritual is very dangerous. Hitting everyone for damage while you conduct it means everyone starting the final encounter injured as any healing done will trigger more damage. Is this intended?

Can players avoid the disruptive effect by going far enough away from the site to cast buffs and if so how far is far enough?

The extra bonuses players get to interact with the Sages in the mindscapes are useful but I wouldn't want to deal with these in a time limited con or shop slot. I ran online so I could ask the questions well in advance, I certainly wouldn't want to hold up a time crunched session while players hunted through their chronicle stacks for various boons etc.

Action report:

OK, my group was solidly high tier with the following:

Witch 10
Witch 10
Life Oracle 11
Heavens Oracle/Sorcerer/Evangelist 10
Alchemist 9
Paladin/Monk/Rogue/Swashbuckler (Mouser) 11

Overall this could have been a very strong group for this scenario. Their front line wasn't great being mostly just the Mouser. When they met with Torch they used his cash to get scrolls of hero's feast and life bubble and some remove paralysis.

I expected the first encounter to be a cake walk. An alchemist and channeling oracle should take care of things pretty quickly but I reckoned without grabbing most of them straight off. Several ended up paralysed when the mooks arrived and the breath weapon was very dangerous as the highest HP value in the entire group was 80. Also, the life oracle didn't life link anyone.

The witch nearly bought it in this encounter, being unconscious and grabbed in the things mouth. I could have swallowed him which would have killed him with the consume ability. Even if you kill the thing removing the special clause on raise it "consumes the victims body". That puts raise dead out of the picture and possibly even resurrection. However the Mouser was too dangerous so he spat her out to focus on him.

They eeked through the encounter with the help of Tahonikepsu. It took them ages to shut off the icon as no-one headed over there, being too busy getting paralysed. At this point it became apparent that these characters would struggle as most (bar Fox) had saves which were all in single digits.

They entered the ruin taking Amenopheus with them. I allowed life bubble to protect them from the gust. Exploration went fairly well but they refused to visit the Oblivion Chamber. The destroyed all the plague samples in the lab (they had Amenopheus fireball the place), didn't take time to explore the archives (they were worried about buff timers), got the relevant information from the machine (a very cool bit) and managed to recover the armour without anyone getting infected.

Reaching the ritual site they searched the area before starting, finding the loot but costing them more time and running out various buffs (in particular life bubble). Not being able to cast more buffs as the ritual began became something of an issue and they had one failure on the ritual check causing everyone to take damage they couldn't heal before the next encounter started.

The fight with Tahari was utterly brutal. They managed to free Sinuhotep fairly early on as well as Dhiara. Round 2 or 3 saw Tahonikepsu free but by then things were going badly. The cloudkill did a lot of damage to the group and the sages. Fox was nearly killed in the first round by a smiting Ermias and ended up withdrawing. The life oracle still only had 1 life link up on Fox. One of the witches went down to Tahonikepsu and the other was constantly up and down.

The alchemist had hasted everyone at the start and then had to spend time healing himself. He did later get into bombing things but by then it was too late. Tahonipesu tanked the div (although it took out the heavens oracle after he started healing her), Dhiara tanked Ermias (before dying) and people kept trying and failing to free Ameopheus who was lightning bolting away. Tahari dropped incurable fading light on one of the witches, suffocated twice (one was dispelled), blinded the alchemist (he had remove blindness prepped) and started throwing magic missiles at Fox as she was running out of offence.

They did eventually cleanse the spinel and the onyx but by then it as too late. Ermias took out the diseased witch and the alchemist and then critted Fox while smiting him. I allowed the life oracle to run away and Tahari finished off anyone who was unconscious.

Overall the fight was a horrid mess. On paper it looked like a strong group but they just didn't have the defences or the health to survive. Both witches had 12 con and both were unhappy that most of their stuff wouldn't work on undead. Looking back at their sheets I am fairly sure both had retribution hex which would have probably killed Ermias and I would have expected both to have prepared some spells to affect undead given the nature of the scenario.

In case people think I was exceptionally harsh looking back over I actually missed a lot of stuff, mostly because by the time the fight ended it was 2am:

1. I totally missed the well of evil which would have affected several group members sickening them.

2. I forgot about the Sacrilegious Aura, the life oracle would have made the concentration checks but several wand charges were used which I think would also have been affected.

3. I totally forgot the Shira Div's DR and dust pelt. The Div killed Tahonikepsu in the same round that she reduced it to 0HP but if I had applied the DR it would have been much more one sided. I did apply Tahonikepsu's DR but she had also taken some con damage from cloudkill.

4. After I infected the Witch with fading light I forget to force saves every time he cast a spell after that.

Overall I enjoyed the scenario very much. I am not sure my players appreciated how difficult it was. They really struggled to get people out of the mindscapes, even with three Int based characters and two Charisma based ones. The Hard DC is really quite challenging, even at tier 10-11, even with the +2 for getting the ritual reasonably right and even with the extra bonuses specific to the sages.

[Matt Duval]

@andreww's questions:

-I think it's that you can buy the improved khopesh later but it's just a +2 weapon during the scenario. John or Linda would have to clarify if they wanted additional steps.

-Acquiring a sample requires the same skill checks in the lab canister or in either of the two sarcophagi. The cure works the same regardless of variant of the disease.

-Ritual: Yes, that's how it's intended to work. It's supposed to limit the party's ability to pre-buff. Flubbing an assist check doesn't trigger the penalty, so I'd have the sages emphasize for those untrained in the occult, acting as assistants might be better than testing their luck.

-I would say if a PC wanted to do that, I'd have a sage tell them to go outside the chamber into the hallway to the NW out of line of sight about 200 feet away. Basically I'd engineer it so they don't get to participate in the first round of combat and possibly the second round without some sort of enhanced movement.

-I made a little document to help me organize the chronicle sheet info. I'll see about posting it to pfsprep. It's not much but maybe it'll help with the time crunch.

mindscape difficulty:

Freeing the sages is intended to be the "hard mode" since it provides the best reward. Smashing the sage jewels is intended to be the escape hatch for a struggling group to weaken Tahari and quickly free more assistance.

Sorry your PCs had a rough go of it. Glad you enjoyed it :)

[thistledown]

It doesn't list how long the ritual takes, so our GM called it as a few minutes. At this level, anything minute per level or more can be cast before the ritual and should still be up during and after. It's only rounds/level or instantaneous stuff you'd need to cast during it.

I feel like we got an 'Easy Mode' when I played through. The TeleKineticist put an oil with Silence on a rock, then used it to chase Teheri around. Mixed in with a pile of other rocks. And the first sage we freed was luckily Sinuhotep, so she didn't have silent spell. This flustered the GM some, so he didn't handle her non-casting abilities well and she spent most of the fight trying to figure out what was happening then getting away from the silent rock.

[FLite]

James Anderson wrote:

It doesn't list how long the ritual takes, so our GM called it as a few minutes. At this level, anything minute per level or more can be cast before the ritual and should still be up during and after. It's only rounds/level or instantaneous stuff you'd need to cast during it.

I feel like we got an 'Easy Mode' when I played through. The TeleKineticist put an oil with Silence on a rock, then used it to chase Teheri around. Mixed in with a pile of other rocks. And the first sage we freed was luckily Sinuhotep, so she didn't have silent spell. This flustered the GM some, so he didn't handle her non-casting abilities well and she spent most of the fight trying to figure out what was happening then getting away from the silent rock.

Pretty sure it says the ritual takes an hour.