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As requested, I am creating this thread for the soul purpose of fans, players, and GM's that use the Multiclass Archetypes in their campaigns as a place to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the plethora of MCAs that have been developed.
For ease of access, I am putting a link to the page of the Pathfinder Community site.
And so, let the discussions begin. We look forward to seeing how our creations have been included in campaigns and inspired players and GM's alike. Good gaming!
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Was asked to copy my comments over from the main MCA thread... ^_^
Uhh, guys, as a critique, i want to point out that the evolutionary mutagen and wild mutagen discoveries are very weak, they are so weak, that getting them makes your mutagen actively worse.
I don't know what you're on about.
Wild Mutagen makes it weaker, but gives you additional options making it function as a shorter version of the Druid's wildshape. Having class features from multiple classes is kind of what hybrid AT's are all about, aren't they?
And Evolutionary Mutagen is all about having options. It doesn't give the Beastbrewer the same RRR STATS, RRRR NATURAL ARMOR combat power, but it DOES turn the Mutagen into a VERY versatile buff system for the Eidolon.
The Sickened debuff lasts for 1d4 rounds on an ability that lasts for 10 minutes per level. Even at first level that's 2% of the mutagen's duration, tops.
Having played a variant Bard that grants Evo points instead of Inspire Courage, I've seen just how effective being able to add evolutions onto something can be, even if it's only 1 point.
Just the +8 bonus to any skill alone is incredibly useful.
Both options are about sacrificing power for versatility.
A good while ago during our groups first attempt at Rise of the Runelords (before the game fell through) I played the Weeping Executioner for several levels. Honestly, I still think it's one of the best realized 'hybrids' of two classes out there and perfectly replicates the feel I was hoping for. I will say that the ability to spend Ki points to gain Smite uses was occasionally very, very powerful, but in a way that felt very satisfying and didn't overshadow the other players as much as I originally thought.
Since then I've used them as several NPCs, since they are a perfect way to introduce more zealous evil-slayers that can still be sneaky and underhanded.
Hey Elghinn, good to see you posting this.
Looks like you've been hard at work uploading and entering lots of the originally created MCA's - it's almost as full as the old wiki!
Hey Elghinn, good to see you posting this.
Looks like you've been hard at work uploading and entering lots of the originally created MCA's - it's almost as full as the old wiki!
Well, I'd really like to see how many people actually use our stuff out there. I think its more than we think.
I got to play an Abomination Rider briefly for one session not too long ago.
I quite had fun with the character, but we didn't get into any combat during the one session we played before the Dire Personal Life interfered, so alas, I can't say how it faired in battle compared to the other PC's. :(
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I use MCAs for villains and noteable NPCs. It always keeps the party guessing and adds some great lore and flavor to the setting.
Which class uses the Extra Eldritch Blast feat?
Which class uses the Extra Eldritch Blast feat?
It's the . Just added it to the community site. Haven't gotten to the Sorcerer MCAs yet.
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Well if a campaign is ever brought together and I had the chance to join, it would be with either a Erudite Bard, Espial Voyageur, or Divine Exemplar. I have wanted to try out a fair few MCAs, but haven't had the chance even in all this many years since I first found the group.
Sadly, I haven't joined a campaign where such was allowed.
What I'd like to hear are who has played what MCAs, and how they performed.
A 'Rage Seer' would be fun i think
Another example might be Karsa Orlong, he is haunted by the ghosts of all the people he's killed and some he hasn't. They are literally chained to him but it doesn't slow him down cause he is too badass for that noise
I just realized we don't have a Barbarian/Oracle MCA, I could see that having some very interesting results. I perhaps base such an idea at least in part on the main character of the video game Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice.
I think Purple Duck Games covered something similar in their Prestige Archetypes for the Rage Prophet prestige class (which is basically meant to merge the Barbarian and Oracle classes). If you don't want to copy their work directly, you could still take a look at the Rage Prophet prestige class in the Advanced Player's Guide as a possible source of inspiration.
I'll just throw this idea here, thank you.
How about crafting MCAs with the occult classes?
Occultist/Paladin sounds awesome to me,
I whould like Psychic/Alchemist or a Psychic/Magus.
Pyschic/Rogue: Mind Thief
Psychic/Paladin: Mental Bulwark
Occultist/Wizard: Trinket Mage
Guys, this isn't meant to be the thread for suggestions or ideas for new MCAs, but a forum to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly of particular MCAs people have played or used over the years. This would provide feedback for us to see whether there are any changes or teaks we need to do to particular MCAs.
The new MCA creation and suggestion thread is MCAs XI - Resurgence. I'm not wanting to curb your enthusiasm for creating Occult MCAs, but the othe thread is where that is taking place. In fact, they were talking about Occult MCAs a bit ago.
Thanks!
Ok point taken. I anybody wants to DM an MCA game post here.
I played a Lizardfolk Dreadnaught in a Sunless Citadel PbP here on the Paizo boards. Was quite good, and fun. He added Barbarian at 2nd level, and then the game ended.
I also played a Warforged Dreadnaught in a short-lived Eberron PbP campaign.
And then there was a Human Physiomorph Marauder, though that game, although it had an awesome premise (young students caught up in an invasion of their city) petered out fairly quickly. I will say that the Fort check to transform should probably be completely excised - it's no fun not only failing to use your signature ability but being weakened into the bargain!
Ok, I haven't played it yet...but the Beastskin Warrior (brawler/hunter) looks amazing. Maybe even too good.
Now I just have to find a way to play one.....
I played a Lizardfolk Dreadnaught in a Sunless Citadel PbP here on the Paizo boards. Was quite good, and fun. He added Barbarian at 2nd level, and then the game ended.
I also played a Warforged Dreadnaught in a short-lived Eberron PbP campaign.
And then there was a Human Physiomorph Marauder, though that game, although it had an awesome premise (young students caught up in an invasion of their city) petered out fairly quickly. I will say that the Fort check to transform should probably be completely excised - it's no fun not only failing to use your signature ability but being weakened into the bargain!
Good feedback. Yeah, if you can't use your signature ability, that sucks. Using up your resource is one thing, not being able to use it because of a roll isn't.
I feel like I should start with this. Every decision I make for a character, practical or not, is driven by how cool I think it would be. Not how much damage I can deal in a single blow, or how I can cheese the hell out of something. I've done some really dumb things because I thought they were cool. I'm also a relatively new player, so I may be very wrong about much of this, so feel free to take anything I say with a grain of salt.
I love the idea of the multiclass archetypes. One I thought I'd like would be the Bonded Warmage, but, and this is probably going to sound really stupid and whiny, because I know the Summoner is a gamebreaker, so I'm sure the Bonded Warmage can break the game too, but I dislike how it works a lot.
Sure, your eidolon summons faster, but you can't keep him out indefinitely and you get less evolution points, though I only need to spend three feats for the dragon mount build I came up with, which is a modified dragon template. The thing that drove me to check it out was the thought of a Magus riding on the back of a dragon, spellstriking enemies with a polearm of some kind, or spell combat on the back of a dragon. Or just flying around on a freaking dragon, because they're awesome. I do like the idea of delivering touch spells with my eidolon, and the capstone they get, but those are the only things I especially like all that much about it.
My Draconic Eidolon build
Base - Quadruped
Primary Evolutions - Claws, Tail, Sting (better than tail slap)
Secondary Evolutions - Wing Buffet, Mount, Flight
Immunity, Blindsense, Breath Weapon, Spell Resistance, Fast Healing
Thanks for the feedback.
I played a Lizardfolk Dreadnaught in a Sunless Citadel PbP here on the Paizo boards. Was quite good, and fun. He added Barbarian at 2nd level, and then the game ended.
I also played a Warforged Dreadnaught in a short-lived Eberron PbP campaign.
And then there was a Human Physiomorph Marauder, though that game, although it had an awesome premise (young students caught up in an invasion of their city) petered out fairly quickly. I will say that the Fort check to transform should probably be completely excised - it's no fun not only failing to use your signature ability but being weakened into the bargain!
Changed it to this.
Mutagenic Form (Su): At 1st level, a physiomorph marauder can heighten his physical prowess at the cost of his personality. As a standard action, the physiomorph marauder can force his body to mutate, growing bulkier and more bestial, and granting him a +2 natural armor bonus and a +4 alchemical bonus to one physical ability score (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution) of his choice, for a number of minutes per day equal to 1 per physiomorph marauder level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive. In addition, while in this mutagenic form, the physiomorph marauder takes a –2 penalty to one of his mental ability scores. If the physiomorph marauder enhances his Strength, it applies a penalty to his Intelligence. If he enhances his Dexterity, it applies a penalty to his Wisdom. If he enhances his Constitution, it applies a penalty to his Charisma. Once the physiomorph marauder's transformation ends, he is nauseated for 1 minute. This ability replaces bonus feat at 1st level.