N. Jolly wrote:
Thank you for this, I can note this down for the future in case we make it to later levels.
So I've been having a terrible time finding the answer to this and just figured I'd ask. I'm a huge fan of the Legendary Samurai by Legendary Games, but the SOul Blade archetype is bugged on my PDF and only reads:
"Bonded Mastery (Su): At 19th level, if a soul blade is in possession of their spiritual weapon at the start of combat, "
What does the ability actually do? I like the idea of the archetype and sure 19th isn't likely to be reached often, but I would like to be able to at least know for the sake of knowing.
One of my players keeps swearing that the Vigilante is one of the strongest non-casters in Pathfinder, and I've seen one or two forums with a similar mentality...but neither he nor they really have ever just broke it down as to why. When I look at them I see interesting social talents that I really want just to be a thing half the other classes got anyway, a couple decent vigilante talents that are better than Rogue ones, but not as generally good as some Ninja Tricks in my opinion, and the option to have either Full BaB or a pretty meh version of sneak attack. Have I failed my perception check here and missed something?
I don't know if my hatred of "I full Attack" and thus almost strict us of the Spheres of Might stuff has influenced this or anything, I'm just hoping that someone can explain where this supposed power is that I'm really missing.
I'm aware of that much, but the thing is the Counterpunch isn't an attack action. From what it seems it's readying an attack (which is a standard action), that counts as an attack action for the sake of triggered effects like Fencing/Duelist sphere.
I suppose I can probably relent on this, but it still feels very off. When I read "As an attack action" to me that says that it is in no way a triggered response that could be traded out for an attack granted by special use of a Standard action. If it had said "whenever you make an attack action" I might not be having this mental hang up.
Thats what I don't really agree on though, the "as" part. You've already declared the attack being used for counterpunch, which means you no longer can perform a unique attack action from my understanding of it.
The best example I can think of is Cleave and Vital Strike. Vital Strike specifically calls out "WHEN" you make an attack, but Cleave is "as a standard action". Cleave can't be combined with similar action use abilities while Vital strike can because it's a triggered effect. Does SoM not make this distinction?
This was a discussion that came up and got a tad more heated than I was meaning it to be, so I wanted to ask the consensus of the boards on the matter.
When using the Counterpunch ability, it states the following:
"You may ready an action to make an attack with a light melee weapon against the next enemy who makes a melee attack roll against you before the beginning of your next round; this attack is treated as an attack action for the purposes of talents as well as the Vital Strike feat and occurs before the attack that triggers it, gaining a +2 competence bonus to damage rolls. For every 4 points of base attack bonus you possess, this bonus increases by +2. Using this ability does not change your place in the initiative order."
Can you use the whirlwind knockdown talent of the lancer sphere in place of the attack? I was under the impression because it specifically says "As an Attack action" in its activation, which from my understanding couldn't be done as you already used your action to name the counterpunch readying. Am I incorrect in this?
I'm planning a game set in a heavily eastern environment and I'm toying this concept since a lot of the players actually liked the idea of racial classes from back in the day and saw some of the ones made by Rite Publishing and Dreamscarred Press so they were asking about more theme appropriate options, and thus the notion of playing an Oni was brought up.
I've been thinking on it for a while, but newly working 3rd shift has drained me and got me pretty creatively bankrupt apparently because nothing I've been able to come up with seems to be balanced or able to properly give the right feel to it. I'm wondering if anyones had any success in creating a racial class that would allow players to be an Oni (link here for reference on them), more specifically the types like the "Yai" types. Or if not, what kind of things I might be able to focus on putting in or avoiding.
So this one a player brought up to me and I realized I didn't have the proper answer. This is the unarmored training Equipment Talent:
Does this count shields as armor worn? I just naturally assumed it didn't, but upon actually reading it over more it doesn't specifically call it out and I wanted some other opinions.
Alright new question since I can't seem to find a concrete answer. When using this ability of the Berserker Sphere:
Does this damage become multiplied by a critical hit or is it added onto the final total?
Alright I can see that, though because Mighty Blow only goes to one die roll does that mean it can be for both an attack and damage since it's different dice, or only for one or the other since they are 'part' of a single type of action?
And that doesn't give me too much in how it compares to just playing a regular barbarian or what can be stacked with it. I'm just unfamiliar with it and how the other abilities make up for things
I've seen this archetype sitting around for a bit and I'm thinking about giving it a try for a character, but since it's Rage variant Rapture doesn't appear to apply the same type of attack/damage buff as normal rage I'm a little hesitant to just dive right in and I'm wondering what the consensus is on it from the boards. I was also considering mixing it with the Berserker archetype from SoM (they should stack if I read it correctly), but I'm not sure if trading out so many rage powers would be a good idea for the spheres trade. Been a while since I built a barbarian at all and remember a lot of those were pretty integral to some builds.
For reference: Worldsoul Incarnate
These are some really great ideas and a big help. I actually really like the idea of the otherworldly Kimono idea Benslayer! I could use that to kidnap a party member as a form of "warning" or perhaps a way to go about nonlethal assault.
I think I'll combine the ideas a little. Alaurne may be a better fit than Dryad, though with some slight reflavoring in some aspects to fit the humanoid nature more. As for which class to use as enhancements how good is the Nature Fang archetype? It replaces the nature sense, wild empathy, and woodland stride features with Studied Target, and wild shape with Slayer Talents.
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Holy cow thats awesome! You didn't have to go to all the trouble of that Darigaaz, but I have to say this is pretty close to what I was going for. I didn't realize Druid 9 let you stay shaped so long though, hadn't considered using it that way (I never really play druids)!
I normally would just wing it and mostly staple stuff on where I need it to be for the monster to work, but I'm also gonna be sending the stats to a friend who's out of state with even less prep time than I have. The plan is to help him run this plot over with his own group once it finishes, so for once I'm actually wanting to put down complete stats for stuff. The other monsters were pretty basic to do this one I just didn't want to fudge since it's one of the major antagonists of the game.
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
I hadn't really thought of Half-fiend Dryad that would be pretty rad. If I was going to be adding class levels in addition to this how many would be appropriate? Assuming I'm making her a challenging fight for a group of four level 10 characters I would think putting her at a CR 12 or so would be good so maybe around 6-8 levels? Not a huge fan of Druid since the spell list is good but the other features are mostly wasted, but I yeah I can't think of much that would be better.
I'm wanting to create an antagonist for my groups current Asian themed game, and I'm really wanting to emulate the character Shiromori from the Mystery Skulls animations, but I'm not really sure how to go about it.
The main goals for the monster to be able to do would be to be able to track others over extreme distances, travel through the earth at great speeds (not necessarily teleport speed), and to pose a significant threat to a 10th level party as only a solo encounter, though she would likely use ambush tactics to single out targets.
I can always just 'say' she can do these things of course but I'm hoping to at least have a possible frame of reference, and possibly a better grasp of what would be really flavorful magic abilities/spells to give her in order to help her be an effective assassin. Normally winging it wouldn't be so bad, but this group is pretty high on the optimization ladder and has proven to be very coordinated to a point I've had some trouble challenging them with combat. They welcome challenges like this and would love to feel a real sense of fear to know this being had their number. Due to my limited free time for such endeavors at the moment I'd love to know if anyone has some ideas or possible numbers I could work off of!
GM Rednal wrote:
Revitalize is the most amazing Life talent ever. o wo~ I'd take that over Sustaining Vitality. You can get any blast type you want with Energy Focus (highly recommended if you don't plan to pick up more than one blast type group - it's basically a free talent), while Telekinesis... -Rubs chin- It's interesting, but you definitely need a solid plan (and some Caster Level buffs) to really do well with it. I think that could be saved for later, though you can probably afford a one-talent dip into the base Sphere for thematic reasons.
I plan on grabbing a staff to help out with caster level (probably a +2 staff to two different spheres, likely Life and then Destruction/telekinesis.) Though looking at Revitalize again I can see it's potential, but I'm not sure if it would benefit our party as much. Without picking up Ranged Healing and Mass Healing I'm only applying it to one person at a time, and Fasting Healing 1 is great for out of combat but certainly won't save someone being mauled. I can skip out on Sustaining Vitality though it was mostly one I just thought looked cool, so I may as well take your word on it and grab Revitalize to see how it turns out :P.
I thought of Telekinesis partly because it may be interesting to use while possessing an ally or a dead body, moving things around while hidden, or stopping ranged attacks aimed at the one the character is inside. As far as destruction blasts go each Negative Energy blast type talent actually does something against Undead so that's a possibility! As would be Cold to go with the ghost theme.
But alright, I think this mostly covers the talent portion of things. On to what Wraith Haunts would work...at least there's only 3 of those to choose lol.
Actually on further reflection it may benefit me to still grab the Proficient access with Might talents. I could grab the Alchemy Sphere and the Salve talent (at 8th level it would heal 4d8+ practitioner modifier assuming max alchemy ranks). This would easily shore up the use of the Life sphere talents since I can make several ahead of time. The fact that the one this character was previously possessing used this as well would be a good tie in.
GM Rednal wrote:
Alright, how about this then. At 8th level without any extras from feats/drawbacks I'd have 8 magic talents to choose from.
I get Death automatically, Pick up either the Expanded Necromancy or Empowered Reanimate Talent (1), Then the other by axing Ghost Strike
Grab Life Sphere (2), Greater Healing (3), and Sustaining Vitality (4)
Next get Fate Sphere (5) with the Tongue of Ages Drawback, snagging the Curse (word) talent with it.
Now the question is whether to go for Destruction Sphere or to go into Telekinesis. The former being more reliable damage (With good debuffs in Radiant Blast like suggested or Nether Blast which Frightens Undead), while the latter opens up some creative options and is much more 'ghost' like.
Edit- Getting Illusion Sphere with the Disappearance Drawback might be pretty goofy, Go incorporeal AND invisible lol.
GM Rednal wrote:
Fair enough, losing Ghost Strike is a bit sad but with there being as many constructs we've fought as undead it's a good call. I'm pretty aquainted with the destruction sphere so I'll definetly be picking up at least the basic access to it if I'm skipping out on SoM access to retain feats. I actually forgot about the Enhancement sphere having debuffs though, so thanks for reminding me! Hmm...What about the Fate Sphere or Life Spheres? I'm unfamiliar with the former but if the spell point costs aren't terrible allowing allies to reroll or forcing enemies to do the same could be pretty thematic of a 'curse' as well. The latter might endear the character to the party more (since the former one was a healer) and the Vitality Talents can be pretty potent boosts, but I'm not sure if it would sacrifice too much to invest in
GM Rednal wrote:
Yeah, it's not good to stack up on roles TOO much. If you've got three buffers, it's better to try and do something else. From what you've said, debuffing and Battlefield Control sound like a good way to go here. Whiiiich could include raising lots of dead to distract enemies and provide flanking. And Illusion would work well, too.
So you would suggest the Corrupter Haunt Path then for the Undead? What about Ghost Strike only affecting living creatures? (I could be wrong but I thought that was true). If so that might put some limitation on what I could possibly Debuff if undead feature heavily
GM Rednal wrote:
Yeah thats whats got me partly so stuck, they all look pretty awesome lol. I do like the unbodied a lot, but I really hesitate with the idea of taking damage every round I'm not solid, though I could see how that could be pretty interesting.
I suppose part of my hang up is that I have a lot of things I WANT to do and I'm not sure what would fit best in the game. My initial thought was using Combat Spheres to build a dagger user with it who would possess enemies and use wraith form/touch attacks. But having a much more control heavy possession or aiding helper would likely be more fitting on flavor. Downside is all three of our casters are primarily doing utility stuff and buffs already while our other two beat stuff to death (the necromancer is a caster, but it's all combat related and he's mainly another melee DPS).
I said the Illusion sphere might be interesting to try out to Stack, if you know about the AP would too many things just not be affected by them?
I can't help liking something well made!I actually don't know if we're in the first or second book, past that we're level 8. The DM doesn't tell us when we beat a book unless we ask usually. It seems to go pretty heavy on constructs and aberrations as well as undead though from my experience so far.
As for party composition, we current have a 5-6 member team of a 'chained' Summoner (first time player mainly focusing on the Eidolon, he has less system mastery than the rest so we don't mind him using a strong class), a Battle Necromancer (debuffs and a two-handed weapon mostly, some raising), a Warpriest (focused on the god of metal so he's an item maker), a Blacksmith (SoM version, focused on sunder and shield defense), and the last player is an irregular attending Kitsune Sorcerer.
My previous character was a half-goblin Scholar (SoM) who was focused around knowledge, scouting, and healing the party using alchemy and class features, and the possessed hand feat chain to let her create alchemical things even while asleep.
There are several spheres I would love to try more than just a dip into (other than destruction, done that a lot lol). Perhaps Illusion? I'm a little confused by the vagueness of what the sphere allows you to do I'll admit.
Hopefully, there are some people out there who can give me some advice on this awesome new class, but since it is new I understand if there may not have been enough time to put it in a lab or anything.
My last character in our Carrion Crown game had a possessed hand (the feat) and was trying to find a way to free the spirit trapped in there, well I had the idea that since she died the last session when the party tries to bring her back they accidentally release the spirit in her hand instead, who would be a Wraith since it was a perfect flavor match. The only problem is that I have a crippling case of choice paralysis on the subject.
So far the character's base stats look like this before items, feats, or anything else:
Lvl 8 Human
I'm unsure what focus would be good for the AP, like would going with Illusions and trickery work often against the types of enemies? Would it be a good idea to exchange feats for a Proficient Spheres of Might progression since the DM already will allow me to gain a Martial Tradition for proficiency exchange if I would like (Even though the class only really would trade proficiency with scythes, he doesn't mind which is pretty nice).
Honestly, while I can see the point of the devs and of the people who dislike them...I can't understand the vitriol. Just don't use them then, or adjust their availability, or in general, find some way to organically enforce the type of playstyle you're trying to get at. That's the beauty of the game, you can change whatever you want whenever you want.
I personally don't desire the development team to make hard and fast rules about limiting such things as part of a core game. Instead, I think such things should be OPTIONAL rules given in a side note if they believe it to be a problem. Let us decide what is best for the game we want to be playing instead of saying we have to play the way they say we do.
In my experience wands of CLW have never been an issue because I never minded players healing up to full, and when I did I limited what they had access to. Players will almost always try to survive the best way they can. Scrolls, wands, potions, whatever they can find to ensure a victory is going to be used and it's just silly to try and think they would somehow limit themselves. I also enjoy the wands a bit because it means that if no one wants to be a healer (because most of my players really hate the mere concept of being forced to play a cleric, just because "we need one". It really makes parties homogenous and uninteresting to always have one cleric around in their opinions), then we still have a reliable way to heal up after a tough fight.
My ideal solution is usually to say "Oh yeah the magic shop has a wand, but it's quite used. Likely a previous adventuring party was raided and this sold off" or similar. The wand only has 10 charges or so. Or to drop a wand as part of treasure rather than saying "you can buy anything".
Deighton Thrane wrote:
I honestly don't understand the mentality behind the changes. I get that 1-12 was some of the most popular play, but that was only because firstly the higher level play started to get too complex. I've run multiple games at level 15+ and so long as you keep the mentality of "yeah these guys are freaking big dang heroes" then it's hardly an issue, so long as you state firmly as the GM what you're alright with and what you aren't as far as spellcasting goes.
But also the biggest limiting factor in high level was time. It takes a LONG time to reach 12th and up for most tables if people have jobs and can only meet maybe every 2 weeks like my current group. It took us several months to clear 10th level in the Skulls and Shackles AP for example, and that's not always something people can just do. So now it seems they have taken the 1-12 feeling and stretched it out so badly that in this same several month periods we would be 12th level with the proportionate power of like what...6th level characters then? That's not a very rewarding feeling just as you've said.
I don't see why they wouldn't keep the existing feel of 1-12 as the actual 1-12, but just managed the higher levels better. Maybe say that "characters literally stop being regular adventurers at 10th level" and having specific challenges and flavor for being larger than life heroes and such (if they are trying to go for a 'radical departure' from the tradition as they say I could see this being a better option). That would at least preserve the feeling of progression.
This is something I actually really dislike, even with the way that ability score increases work in the playtest. Having an ability score tied to Resonance means that this score will become a "minimum" investment score. Every single character WILL put at least a 12-14 in this score if possible.
Every. Single. Character.
This makes the homogony of the characters even more apparent. The system also just is an even more convoluted way to solve a problem than need be. Why not just make wands and potions limited in use? Instead of 50 charges of a wand why not 5-10? Resonance makes some sense in the context of cutting down on the big 6 and making the player choose what bonuses they get from what items, but being tied to EVERYTHING really feels out of touch with the world the game is supposed to be in. Imagine the NPCs saying "Oh sorry, we could heal your fighter, but all of our resonance points are gone." After all otherwise the players would just have an npc companion to pour things down their throats all day instead of themselves.
I do understand some about how the Overspending works, but that in itself is another issue. The risk of losing out on magic items for the entirety of the day on a single bad roll is just NOT something I can see any of the players I know taking. They would rather just say once resonance is 0 it's 0. Cause if they fail that check then they may as well have had 0 because they will likely be dead anyway.
I understand your point of defending the ability, and I'm not really sure I can explain the position I share with the others in a way that will influence your own opinion, but I'll give it a shot.
Retributive strike is fine for what it does, and it does the job, but it doesn't "feel" like it's doing the job. As players in a game most people desire to feel the input of action and the result of said action, even if it's quite a small reaction. The enemy choosing to act differently is good, but it feels very metagamey in how this particular ability is doing it. It feels less like the paladin is there defending his allies and being a menace and more like the DM is catering to the paladin's singularly determined role. This ability doesn't give the player any real feedback for them to feel accomplished beyond telling themselves they did good by standing still and waiting for something to go and hit them or their friend, and that's not enough input for most people.
This also brings up a rather odd mentality and play loop of "Stand there and hope my friend gets attacked so I can do something". Sure, you don't HAVE to play this way. No one is saying you couldn't, but it brings to mind the idea of "if I want to be more dynamic a character I should not pick a paladin". This happens because while the character doesn't HAVE to play in the dedicated stuck-to-a-guy-like-glue tank method, so many of the classes features are tied to the ability requiring them to do so that it feels like wasted mental effort of making the character good or more engaging.
An ability that deters enemies is great, but an ability that reduces player input on the game is bad. The latter is simply a worse feeling for most people than the former. Also as I said previously, an offensive ability as at least an OPTION would heavily reduce this issue because even better than a good defender is a decent defender who can turn on a dime to lay a smackdown. Just to reiterate, there is no greater CC than "dead", and what paladin player doesn't love to deliver good CC.
Agreed. Something I would like to point out as well is that regardless of how good a 'defensive' ability that RS is, in all my years of gaming the tank has been at least as good at dealing damage as the average guy if not even more. The tank draws aggro by being...well a tank. A big scary threat with a big gun ready to pick one unlucky evil doer and send them home (via smite or whatever have you). No matter how you dress it up, there will never be a better CC than "dead".
Matthew Downie wrote:
I could be wrong, but don't Fighter's still win in the DPR Olympics at least?
However, I do feel this is a bad example. The Fighter class has notoriously been underpowered in many regards, the paladin is just a 'better' class overall. It would be more properly compared to something like the barbarian in terms of what it gets to do. To chime in a little while I do agree paladins are a decently powerful class, they have never felt OP in my games.
They are good at keeping themselves alive and patching up people, but they aren't as strong as a Cleric nor as powerful as a Barbarian, they fill a middle ground of "Can do what it's meant to do competently without too much work". Can it do rediculous novas sometimes? Sure, but in a very narrow area. The paladin also has the benefit of being the ONE class at the table that if they do happen to be a little strong my players have never minded because how can you hate the guy who's healing you up while getting smacked on before turning to the bad guy and laying a beating for daring to hurt their friends?
I think part of the problem lies in that it's not nearly as intuitive as it's meant to be. It 'should' be a situation that happens, and it is, but even with lesser intelligent creatures it certainly seems like there are just too many moving parts to the game for ANY ability that is based on such a narrow trigger to be the main deal of an entire class.
Alright so I've been following the forums since I haven't been able to really get a hold of the playtest book itself for more than a cursory look through, and I think I have a decent idea of what the issue is even without doing so and think some of my thoughts might be relevant. I like the 'sound' of the retributive strike and I can appreciate what it's meant to do, but honestly I wonder if an even further direction away from a 'keyed' mechanic might actually be a better direction.
Personally, my favorite version of the paladin is the archetype (technically an archetype combo but it specifically goes with each other) used in the Spheres of Might books, which trades out all of smite evil and spells to instead gain Combat Sphere access of Expert level (1 talent per level). For reference, these spheres enforce particular fighting styles and combos or add in other abilities a class didn't have (like Temp HP tanking rage style or an animal companion). I felt this better emulated a paladin, or a Martial Cleric as it were, to a specific god or ideal if a god never even came to it, because it was more modular and paladins to me should be just as flexible as a fighter but in a different direction. They are a fighter with a greater cause than "survive".
Instead of just "smite evil" or "retributive strike" why not allow the paladin to have a more customized option like this? Maybe allow them to choose one or the other at 1st level, and have each version do something different or at least affected by the god/ideal they chose. Maybe the Smiting paladin who's god's favored weapon is a bow can smite ONLY at range or if they picked RS they can make AoO's at range instead? The paladin of the ideal of "Good" rather than a god may be able to deal more damage to undead than the paladin of Iomedae who may instead be adding in different effects. This might also give the player more of the feeling that their character chose this path for a reason since it's probably a similar reason they are choosing it as well. Do they want to protect and serve or to punish and destroy?
GM Rednal wrote:
Alright I missed that line about needing the martial proficiencies normally and such. I mostly was just curious since not getting one does mean a bit fewer talents than some others due to this. I'll see how it goes over with the DM, thank you for the reply!
This may come a bit late, but as someone who enjoys PoW quite a bit I can say that this is actually about right. The thing is Path of War makes those single attack actions hurt quite a bit if done well and buffed up with the right build, as well as giving them much more utility than many martial can dream of. HOWEVER, a path of war class will almost never (barring cheese builds) match the raw DPS of a full attacking core Paizo martial. They aren't meant to, they are meant to reduce the reliance of standing around swinging at immobile targets. A character hitting with 6 attacks SHOULD be doing more, because that ALL they have to do. Primal Fury and Broken Blade are pretty potent disciplines that he may get some good bang out of, especially the primal fury maneuvers that give pounce like effects.
So I'm really curious about this because I'm not normally the type to really invest in touch attack style stuff, but I have a question about the Destructive Blade ability for anyone who might know.
"Destructive Blade (Sp): As a swift action, rather than expelling a destructive blast as a simple attack, a doomblade can wrap destructive energies around his hand for a number of round equal to his Casting Ability Modifier (minimum 1), surrounding it with power. This wrapping can take any visual form the doomblade desires, from a blade, to a hammer, to a simple ball of swirling energy, but the form is merely cosmetic. The doomblade is considered armed with his destructive blast, and can make touch attacks in place of regular attacks. Rather than having its power determined by the doomblade’s caster level, the destructive blade always treats the doomblade’s level as its caster level.
The destructive blade cannot be augmented by blast shape talents or have its damage increased to one die per caster level, but otherwise can be augmented like any other destructive blast.
If another destructive blade is summoned, any previously summoned destructive blades immediately disappear.
This replaces resist magic."
Do I get my strength on these attacks? Since I'm armed with it and it's considered a Melee touch attack (As I understand it this is what I would take Weapon Focus for as an example, rather than "destructive blast"), if I don't gain strength to damage what ways would I have of improving the damage if I wanted this to be the main method of attack?
Would taking the Extra Combat Talent feat make things easier for you?
Yes and no. That is the easiest way to do it but actually getting the progression gives you access to a Martial Tradition (thus several spheres for free anyway) and if I did my math correctly getting the progression nets me more than just taking Extra Combat Talent. Sacrificing the 5 feats makes me lose a net of 1 feat from bonus feats due to warder levels, and gains me 10 talents with Proficient access + whatever I get from the Tradition.
I could have titled this a number of things, but the gist is that we're beginning a new run and the DM has allowed both Spheres books and Path of War. As I'm a fan of both I was considering rolling up a Fiendbound Marauder Warder (Gives up some defense buffs for a reach grappling claw and curse based stuff) and was looking into using the optional rules of spheres of might to access it without multiclassing.
The option is that you can give up either half your feat progression for Proficient sphere access (trading 5 feats for 10 combat talents) or all of your feats for Adept (trading 10 for 15), with Warder giving me 4 bonus feats meaning I lose technically only 1 feat if I go for proficient. Using these I would go into the Wrestling Sphere and access to the Battered condition for better combat maneuvers while using my PoW maneuvers as more enablers to get the grapples going and to make up for damage because I plan to not make too many full attacks. Is this an idea worth investing in or should I multiclass to access the spheres? Or is this just being too complicated and simply stick to Warder normally?
So I just discovered this and linked it to a friend who IMMEDIATELY wants to use it in the game I'm going to be running. I'm trying to determine the 'power level' (hah) of this class compared to others. One of my friends has said that it is basically at the point of being... very strong, just below broken "tier 2 lol F#$% reality" level. Opinions?
I'm glad to hear it! Please let me know how it turns out when you get the chance if you do allow it. As for the power level, to be honest, I would probably rate it as a high tier 3 to low tier 2 depending on how you built it. Path of War style classes, in general, are inherently strong as a base level but (usually at least) have a lower ceiling of raw power than say, a fully optimized Barbarian, Fighter, or Archer Inquisitor, just have more things to do than most martials. Since I've not gotten to really test this class out though I can only say that some of its options may be pretty strong and need tweaking of course.
As for the idea of the single cut to end all cuts before it style stuff, I totally wanted to include something like it. However with everything else they already have I was pretty reluctant to add something else that could make it even more potent as a DPS machine. Instead, I'm hoping to translate a homebrewed 3.5 Martial Discipline into Pathfinder. It's called Heroes Edge (linked for your convenience) and is basically the perfect thing for this class.
Edit: I did forget actually, the 17th level ability "break the unbreakable" would also work well for emulating this trope.
Heh, while that would certainly be an interesting experiment it's not on the table JUST yet!
For now though, I'm hoping it looks alright. I was unable to think up what to put at the levels where things were just removed and so for now filled them with a spattering of bonus feats (three in total at 6, 12, and 18). If things look alright I think this version might be up for a full playtest.
So with several levels open, how does this sound for an addition?
Second Act Theme Song (Su): Upon reaching 10th level the protagonist has been doing the hard work of a universal hero for quite a while, and has begun to better understand how to manipulate the universe in subtle ways to better help him do his duty. In addition to activating his theme song the normal way, he is able to trigger it under certain instances without expending extra effort on his part, though the circumstances depend on his aspect.
I didn't want to have to do this: Whenever the protagonist successfully uses his standard action to Aid Another he may also activate his theme song as part of the same action, however he must use one of the options of his Side Character Theme when he does so.
Who the hell do you think I am?!: Whenever the protagonist successfully bull rushes an opponent (including the one granted by using a full round action to recover maneuvers), the protagonist may activate his theme song as part of the action. If the bull rush is granted due to an attack roll, the theme song activates as part of the initial attack.
While I personally I do agree with you in that it's not all that different, I do see how others can feel it's a limitation. Being a 1st level fighter implies months or years of actual training, or maybe service as a guard or soldier. It gives the idea that the character has had a history in the 'profession' of their choice and something that can be built on further in game more easily. Being a commoner (to me at least) implies that the character has no established history yet, a totally blank slate beyond a very mundane life. To some people, this is probably hard to work within a game that is at its core meant to be about embracing fantasies where we just don't want to be anything near mundane. I admit to having a very hard time sometimes building a character's personality or similar without needing a semi-strong class background for help.
I also agree on the world-building issues. Granted I will say it might be an interesting set up if the party itself wasn't the one who got the PC levels in the beginning. Even though I prefer the mid to high levels of play much more than the lower ones, it might be fun to be the townsfolk rising up against the powerful villain once and a while.
Added a bunch of the suggested Tropes and changes to the commentable doc. Also now that Side Character theme has changed and Theme Song's improvements are rolled into the main ability it leaves a couple level open for possible other Aspect style abilities.
@VM Mercenario: Even though it was suggested to me by these very boards I've never gotten to play a Kineticist and actually find the way it's organized to be kinda confusing. Do you think you can give a rundown of what blasts I should look for in regards to the improved Chi Blast concept?
VM mercenario wrote:
Oh ok I got ya, I think that would work out just fine. Do you think it should still turn on at 7th level or just be something they can always do?
For Fast-Paced Theme would the increase in Initiative move them up the turn order when the song turns on and then back down when it turns off?
For Somber it could maybe impose a penalty on enemies, like projecting his own sadness onto them?
I actually really like the idea of Sneaky Theme and Sportsclub. And no doubt you're right the first thing I thought of reading that was Eyeshield 21 lol.
And damn those are all really good ideas for archetypes. I'm gonna have some work to do even after we finish the class heh. For the Wisdom only archetype why not make that one the Lone Wolf? Since most lone wolf protags are also kinda gritty the durability deal could be based around Dark and Edgy/Determinater as well (Wolverine, Guts, Determinaters in general)