| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think he is an object lesson in the offing, pending his offing of course.
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yes, Razmir is a God! Would you like to make a donation to His church?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
He's definitely not a deity. He's not even mythic (IIRC) and can't even grant spells to followers nor does he have domains.
What he does have are a lot of sorcerers with the Razmiran Priest archetype.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
^-^
So, Hellatze, what Razmir is, is a Cult Leader, and we know you are tired of killing cultists. Is this a plan to give them legitimacy so you no longer have to fight them?
| 12 people marked this as a favorite. |
What if Razimir were a demon baby in the woods and a prophecy said he would destroy the universe?
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
What if Razimir were a demon baby in the woods and a prophecy said he would destroy the universe?
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I think I love you.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think I love you.What if Razimir were a demon baby in the woods and a prophecy said he would destroy the universe?
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Best. Unicode. Ever.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
i think he is.
i am serious, this guy manage to fool people, creating empire, and a very powerful spell caster.
not a good dudes. but if he reach the immortality, he become a god.
he even have a cult.
he put (almost) all god into a shame, because he become god by sheer effort.
This is all true.
He is not.
He's not even mythic (IIRC) and can't even grant spells to followers nor does he have domains.
You are correct. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What is a God?
Dose he have a doctrine? Yes
Dose he have temples? Yes
Do people worship him? Yes
Is there a God Type or Subtype? No
Do all Gods grant spells? No
Do the souls of there disciples go just to them? No
Do all priests of a God cast Divine spells? No
So yes, he is a God among men.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is all true.i think he is.
i am serious, this guy manage to fool people, creating empire, and a very powerful spell caster.
not a good dudes. but if he reach the immortality, he become a god.
he even have a cult.
he put (almost) all god into a shame, because he become god by sheer effort.
So, . . . second rate Irori?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
^-^
He has a stat block, so no he is not a god.
He may yet become one, no argument there.
As a 19th level wizard he probably thinks he's one.
If he had a player......
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
So, . . . second rate Irori?This is all true.i think he is.
i am serious, this guy manage to fool people, creating empire, and a very powerful spell caster.
not a good dudes. but if he reach the immortality, he become a god.
he even have a cult.
he put (almost) all god into a shame, because he become god by sheer effort.
Or is Irori a second rate Razmir?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
He's not a god, he's a 19th level Wizard close to dying to old age. And even if he achieved immortality it wouldn't make him a God.
^-^
He has a stat block, so no he is not a god.
He may yet become one, no argument there.
As a 19th level wizard he probably thinks he's one.
If he had a player......
Just one more PC party . . . just one more PC party . . . .
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
a god? I think not. he is just someone else for me a Jesse to rob and do guerilla raids against all in the name of the black monarch of his northern neighbor.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is there a God Type or Subtype? NoActually yes there is. Or rather, it's the Deity statblock that lists their Domains and Favored Weapons.
Do all Gods grant spells? NoIncorrect, all Gods short of dead ones grant spells. It's one of the things that makes them a God.
Do the souls of there disciples go just to them? NoIf they were faithful then yes.
Do all priests of a God cast Divine spells? NoThis statement is meaningless. You don't need to cast Divine spells to be a priest, you don't need to cast any spells to be a priest. A priest is just a devout follower of a God.
So yes, he is a God among men.
Nope, just a fraud.
If having people bow to him and follow his rules and having fancy buildings was all you needed to be a God then every King and Queen would be a God.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There was a line about how he has an alliance with the goddess Sivanah, the goddess of illusions, mysteries, and reflections.
Now, let's look at what Razmir has accomplished.
Despite being a mortal he forged his own nation, convinced people he IS a god, and created a giant pyramid scheme that is actually functioning. All through misdirection, lies, and illusion.
I do not think he himself is a god, but I think his Lie is so Grand that Sivanah grants him her blessings. Essentially allowing him to continue this lie unopposed.
Is he god? No.
Is he the chosen of a god? Perhaps.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
You mean, do I think the fictional character who, within the texts describing him is explicitly and repeatedly stated to not be a god is, in fact, a god?
Sure. I also believe Harry Potter is a dumpy middle-aged man, Gandalf is a postal clerk in Sussex, and, no matter what the thousands of pages of George R. R. Martin's work may claim, everyone in Westeros is actually the same shrew named Eeples who makes a small "kuWHEE kuWHEE kuWHEE" noise in lieu of language.
Hear me out, I have lengthy arguments for all of these things.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
While I do not think that Razmir is a real god, I should bring up this.
There is a god who has a diety stat block listing domains, profile, and so on that can be slain. This god is a mythic creature so it does throw off the system a bit.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Or, and hear me out, here: get access to a second level bard spell, a really common first level spell, three feats, and have a decent charisma; plus, most importantly, don't suck.
(Note: "don't suck" doesn't refer to his alignment.)
His pyramid scheme only kind of works, and his conquest isn't really all that impressive.
Here's how to become Razmir in four easy steps:
- Step 0) [optional] be high level
- Step 1) find a place where there aren't that many people powerful enough to oppose me
- Step 2) use a couple of magic items, and/or (relatively) potent spells
- Step 3) magically enslave the survivors while claiming to save them
- Step 4) utterly fail to accomplish my one daggum goal that's really easy at my level
It's my impression that Razmir is kind of a victim of his own success. Yes, he's done well in his lie, but it really hasn't gotten him all that far. And that's mostly because he managed to check his ambitions - he's not expending too many resources on trying to conquer other places, compared to those he's bringing in. Plus, he has managed to establish himself long enough to gain access the mightiest magics of all: beaurocracy and habit. If he were opting for bigger conquests, he would star running into problems, both in running his realm and in keeping rebellion down.
But his problem is that he's... distracted by all this. A god of hedonism, eh? Got it. See, he just isn't putting in the hard hours per day to succeed at what he wants. He's fallen into at least three deadly sins - pride, lust-and/or-gluttony, and sloth - but he unfortunately doesn't have or hasn't worked hard enough to properly use the last one (or two, if gluttony is included).
Anyway: he's a very powerful wastrel who can't even bother to focus for two hours per day.
Also, you know, the books clarify: he's not a god.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
He's definitely not a deity. He's not even mythic (IIRC) and can't even grant spells to followers nor does he have domains.
But you dont need a mythic tk be a god.
Ask caydean
You've chosen a really weird example to prove your point.
From what I understand, Cayden was, in fact, mythic, by the time he took the test of the Starstone.
But no, one need not be mythic.
To date, however, the only functioning "gods" we've seen are outsiders, extremely powerful immortal entities (maybe only fey?), "idols", and mythic entities.
Razmir is none of those things.
And that's on him. Immortality is, like, at most, eight spells away.
Unless he's too stupid to be able to cast those spells...
!!!
New head canon, Razmir is worst wizard. He caps out at, like, intelligence 17 or 18, which is why he can't cast all two ninth level spells he need to achieve immortality!
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I know plenty of gods, and he's no god.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Definitely
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Asmodeus: Fellow deities I need your attention...
Other deities: What are you trying to trick us into...<interrupted>
Raz:Hello guys. I'm a 19th level wizard, and I expect to be treated as an equal.
Other deities: How did he get here? He still has a stat block, can't grant spells, and can be killed by our followers. Even some non-deities can grant spells. What type of weaksauce is this? <combined laughter and mocking commence>
Asmodeus: Oh, I said I would give him a custom spell if he did me a favor, but I didn't expect for him to show up now.
Other deities: Did you say he would have permanent access to the spell?
Asmodeus: Not in the contract. <evil grin>
Other deities: Ok, let's wipe the spell from his mind, and make him unable to ever cast it again.
Asmodeus: Sounds good to me.
Raz: But guys I'm one of you now. You can't treat me like this.... <finds himself back home with no recollection of what just happened>
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
hellatze, creating empires and having spells(power) is something that dragons and outsiders have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years. Outsiders are even immortal. Ruling a layer of the abyss is a lot more difficult than ruling a country. Some can even grant spells. If that is your bar for being a deity, then the bar is low.
If Razzy tried to take over a section of the Abyss or Hell he would be dead inside of a year.
An Archdevil could take over Razzy's nation from the inside, and nobody would know it was there. No real deity is getting punked in his area of control by an Archdevil.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
While I do not think that Razmir is a real god, I should bring up this.
There is a god who has a diety stat block listing domains, profile, and so on that can be slain. This god is a mythic creature so it does throw off the system a bit.** spoiler omitted **
In fact, the whole point of the adventure is that Unity is trying to ascend to become an actual deity, so even Unity is aware that it isn't one.
In order to be considered a living demigod, Razmir would need to be level 20, mythic tier 10, and have taken three instances of the Divine Source mythic feature, which he has not done (we can assume that mechanically, this is the way that Irori and Nethys probably ascended.)
Alternatively, passing the Test of the Starstone also grants immediate demigod status.
All demigods must be at least CR 25 and be able to grant access to four domains and four subdomains. It's the actual requirement to be considered a demigod.
Razmir flat-out doesn't make the cut.
|
|
Setting/Lore wise, I find everything about Razmir,. . . annoying and uninteresting.
Its in the same league as Aroden. Has a lot of really good potential, but since itvis never going anywhere and has plot armor, all of that potential is fool's gold instead of the real thing.
I can see two things possibly salvaging the entire concept.
1.) It was an event that happened like 2,000 years ago that no one really knows much about. It failed, obviously, but would-be copycats of the copycat, (Razmir is hardly the first D&Dish character to do this, just the least intetesting one by far), still try to learn lore about him, his nation, and his faith in order to emulate it, with hopes of actually suceeding. But, such lore is largely lost to time and magic, (Razmir had cast Wish to hide his utter failure at death, but it only partially worked).
2.) He suceeded, as in a long time ago. Everything in print presents him as a deity. He does not have Clerics or Anti-Paladins, (odd, huh), and all the setting material about the God of Evil Bard's divine realms is second hand, (actually going there is a reward withheld to all except the highest tier devotees). Ultimately, the reveal that he is not actually a deity is only revealed to the readers indirectly and later.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
hellatze, creating empires and having spells(power) is something that dragons and outsiders have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years. Outsiders are even immortal. Ruling a layer of the abyss is a lot more difficult than ruling a country. Some can even grant spells. If that is your bar for being a deity, then the bar is low.
If Razzy tried to take over a section of the Abyss or Hell he would be dead inside of a year.
An Archdevil could take over Razzy's nation from the inside, and nobody would know it was there. No real deity is getting punked in his area of control by an Archdevil.
1. then Cayden, are no god. he is a just a drunk-man who take test to starstone to become demigod. and yet the book said he is a god.Also he is hedonist man, who actually living for free.
2. immortal are matter of perspective, if razmir keep drinking sun orchid, he will keep survive.
3. about power, razmir have big lies. but people have faith in him, that means he have big charisma. combined with intelligence. those 2 are great power too.
4. he could stay in hell if he out-lie devil.
5. i think he is more like demigod, than god.
6. and lastly, elemental deity never grant spell to their follower.
1) Yes he is, as his deity profile all through out Pathfinder shows.
2) no, immortal just means you don't age. That's it.
3) and lots and lot and lots of creatures have that. It doesn't make them a God.
4) maybe.
5) he's neither.
6) You are incorrect, the elemental demigod grant spells and domains, always have (not sure why you brought that up though).
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
hellatze, creating empires and having spells(power) is something that dragons and outsiders have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years. Outsiders are even immortal. Ruling a layer of the abyss is a lot more difficult than ruling a country. Some can even grant spells. If that is your bar for being a deity, then the bar is low.
If Razzy tried to take over a section of the Abyss or Hell he would be dead inside of a year.
An Archdevil could take over Razzy's nation from the inside, and nobody would know it was there. No real deity is getting punked in his area of control by an Archdevil.
1. then Cayden, are no god. he is a just a drunk-man who take test to starstone to become demigod. and yet the book said he is a god.Also he is hedonist man, who actually living for free.
2. immortal are matter of perspective, if razmir keep drinking sun orchid, he will keep survive.
3. about power, razmir have big lies. but people have faith in him, that means he have big charisma. combined with intelligence. those 2 are great power too.
4. he could stay in hell if he out-lie devil.
5. i think he is more like demigod, than god.
6. and lastly, elemental deity never grant spell to their follower.
Wrong. He is a god because the creators of the game said he is a god, and he fits all qualification. --> No statblock, really powerful, can't get his butt kicked by mere mortals, and no nondeity is walking into his domain and beating him up.
For your games you can do what you want. Officially he is a mortal, and mortals are not deities. That is just the facts.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
just 1 more level.While I do not think that Razmir is a real god, I should bring up this.
There is a god who has a diety stat block listing domains, profile, and so on that can be slain. This god is a mythic creature so it does throw off the system a bit.** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
In order to be considered a living demigod, Razmir would need to be level 20, mythic tier 10, and have taken three instances of the Divine Source mythic feature, which he has not done (we can assume that mechanically, this is the way that Irori and Nethys probably ascended.)
Alternatively, passing the Test of the Starstone also grants immediate demigod status.
All demigods must be at least CR 25 and be able to grant access to four domains and four subdomains. It's the actual requirement to be considered a demigod.
Razmir flat-out doesn't make the cut.
Not true. You misunderstood. He needs to have level 20 and mythic their 10. Raz is not mythic tier 10. The greatest caster to ever live is The Whispering Tyrant, and he isn't even a deity, and he is a lot more powerful than Razmir.
If he were to be freed he would mudstomp Razmir and take his kingdom in less than 2 months if he wanted to.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Being contrary by nature, I would have cackled like a witch if Razmir had turned out to be one of the big 20 gods of Starfinder.
I always root for the underdog, and the background characters and the ones everyone contemptuously dismisses.
Except when I don't, because, contrary. :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
He's definitely not a deity. He's not even mythic (IIRC) and can't even grant spells to followers nor does he have domains.
What he does have are a lot of sorcerers with the Razmiran Priest archetype.
But you dont need a mythic tk be a god.
Ask caydean
That's incorrect, you don't necessarily need to be Mythic to become a god.
Cayden Cailean when through the test of the Starstone (drunk) and became a god. The Starstone turned him into a deity. Whether he was mythic or not before is immaterial to the effect of the Starstone.
|
|
Im pretty sure that Razmir has failed every time to get the Sun Orchid Elixer, doing every trick in the book, and outbidding entire nations and is always denied.
I also do not think you have to be Mythic, or even a specific level to pass the Star Stone Test. I don't believe that anyone but Iomedae was Mythic for the Star Stone, (and rumor is Heaven did it for her), which if I recall is why Irori sort of looks down on them, considering Mythic and the Star Stone as somewhat cheating.
|
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Im pretty sure that Razmir has failed every time to get the Sun Orchid Elixer, doing every trick in the book, and outbidding entire nations and is always denied.
I have no idea what's up with that elixir these days.
It was six vials a month, and each only 'temporarily halted the process of aging,' back in the original Campaign Setting, so even if Razmir got his hand on some, it would just let him be really old and afraid of dying for another 1d4 years per dose.
The Inner Sea World Guide changed it to six doses *a year,* and resetting one's age to young adult, but even that's hardly 'immortality,' it's just, say, five more decades, which is a drop in the bucket to a game setting that goes back 10,000 years. (On the other hand, that's five more decades for him to get that 20th level wizard level and the immortality arcane discovery, which wouldn't happen in my version of Golarion anyway, because in my version, he's a *sorcerer* bloodline) and can't get wizard discoveries... Golarion's *crawling* with high level 'epic' wizards, like Geb, Nex, Arazni, Tar-Baphon and the Runelords, as it is. Razmir's perfect to be a high-level sorcerer instead, and not one of the common rabble with their pointy hats and their fancy book-learnin'.)
Who knows, if Razmir dallies around long enough before getting his bony old hands on a dose, it might be down to six doses a decade, and upgraded to actual immortality! :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Im pretty sure that Razmir has failed every time to get the Sun Orchid Elixer, doing every trick in the book, and outbidding entire nations and is always denied.
I think I read somewhere that he's always outbid by someone.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
hellatze, creating empires and having spells(power) is something that dragons and outsiders have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years. Outsiders are even immortal. Ruling a layer of the abyss is a lot more difficult than ruling a country. Some can even grant spells. If that is your bar for being a deity, then the bar is low.
If Razzy tried to take over a section of the Abyss or Hell he would be dead inside of a year.
An Archdevil could take over Razzy's nation from the inside, and nobody would know it was there. No real deity is getting punked in his area of control by an Archdevil.
1. then Cayden, are no god. he is a just a drunk-man who take test to starstone to become demigod. and yet the book said he is a god.Also he is hedonist man, who actually living for free.
2. immortal are matter of perspective, if razmir keep drinking sun orchid, he will keep survive.
3. about power, razmir have big lies. but people have faith in him, that means he have big charisma. combined with intelligence. those 2 are great power too.
4. he could stay in hell if he out-lie devil.
5. i think he is more like demigod, than god.
6. and lastly, elemental deity never grant spell to their follower.
Cayden, Norgorber, and Iomedae are all ascended mortals that passed the Test of the Starstone, achieving demigod status (that's what the Starstone does.) They were each demigods for long enough that they ascended even further beyond being mere demigods. Also note that Cayden ascended in 2765 - nearly 2000 years before the current default assumed year of 4717.
Immortality has absolutely nothing to do with godhood. Many PC classes can achieve basic immortality as a level 20 capstone.
Razmir is flat-out a level 19 human wizard, that's it. He's no more a demigod than any other CR 18 creature - again, far below the actual demigod requirements I listed above (CR 25+, able to grant 4 domains and 4 subdomains.) Choosing whether or not to grant spells also doesn't adjust whether or not a creature qualifies as a demigod.
Baba Yaga, for instance, makes the cut. She's CR30, has been considered among the Eldest in the past, is level 20/mythic tier 10, has three instances of Divine Source (and is therefor able to grant access to four domains and four subdomains), but she chooses not to grant spells.
In any case, based on this thread and the baby one that you posted, coupled with your responses, I'm pretty sure at this point that you're trolling the generally helpful people on the Paizo boards.
On the off-chance that you're not, hopefully the above information is helpful for you.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Baba Yaga, for instance, makes the cut. She's CR30, has been considered among the Eldest in the past, is level 20/mythic tier 10, has three instances of Divine Source (and is therefor able to grant access to four domains and four subdomains), but she chooses not to grant spells.
This is flatly untrue. Baba Yaga has explicitly actively avoided becoming a deity, has no instances of Divine Source, and has never been counted amongst the Eldest (what with not being Fey).
She's earth-shatteringly powerful. The kind of 'mortal' who, like Tar-Baphon the Whispering Tyrant, can slay a demigod...but that in no way makes her one.
Unlike Razimir, however, she could probably become one if she wanted. He hasn't got a prayer.