The point of the Scoundrel


General Discussion


An example character under the Envoy(pg 67) shows the scoundrel with both the Clever feint/Clever attack improvisations AND the Improved/Greater Feint feat chain.

For the optimizers out there, what would be the point of this other than attacking/flat-footing one target as a standard action and then flatfooting a second target? Since flatfooted is -just- -2ac and no reaction, is this really worth the resources, in your opinion?

Number crunchers of the internet, show me what I cannot see.


There are several redundant/bad/wrong feat choices in the example characters.


As a followup Xenocrat (or anyone) is flatfooted even worth attempting in this edition?

Scarab Sages

You are both underestimating the value of "just" -2 to AC. Accuracy bonuses are very rare in the game, and to hit bonuses are much flatter. That -2 to AC will allow more full attacks to hit and is much more valuable that a +2 in pathfinder.i


Imbicatus, I totally might be, that's why I was asking.

Denying reactions has utility also.

Silver Crusade

Imbicatus wrote:
You are both underestimating the value of "just" -2 to AC. Accuracy bonuses are very rare in the game, and to hit bonuses are much flatter. That -2 to AC will allow more full attacks to hit and is much more valuable that a +2 in pathfinder.i

Rare does NOT mean valuable.

Given that NPC armor classes are fairly low a bonus to hit is worth LESS than in Pathfinder. At least in its basic level when you're shooting at somebody in the open.

However, everybody gets to full attack and this changes things. Also, cover and prone are going to be more attractive options. Which brings bonuses to hit back up in value when cover and prone are an option.

Scarab Sages

Accuracy bonuses are valuable because everyone can full attack. Mathmatically, you are always better off making a full attack than a single attack to do damage, so anything that makes those full attacks more accurate is very valuable.


With both of those views taken into consideration, Wouldn't improved GetEm wth either of those other options be better (depending if you want to use up more feats or more improvisations)?

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