I like the HP/Stamina/Resolve system because in-combat healing has always sucked in 3e. Consuming CLW wands outside of combat doesn't add any strategic element to the game for me personally.
However effectively spending Stamina (in the form of Resolve) does, since it is a resource not exclusively used for healing. The strategic use of Resolve for either class abilities or healing is basically the same game mechanic in play for clerics spontaneously converting prepared spells into cures, but spread to every class.
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Dave2;
Thanks for your views and thoughts.
It is just strange to me that a person can take dagger stab's to the body and then convince themselves that it is not that bad.
The point of Stamina thematically is that when you only take Stamina damage, you likely didn't get hit at all, or only scratched anyway. You just used up some notable luck or energy in avoiding that fate.
Things like a lost limb critical effect are something of an exception to this rule, which is why they are weird.
I think of Stamina as being just the same as Hit Points.
The way that they differ is that Stamina are just fast recovering Hit Points.
Neither though represents significant wounds outside of respect for dramatic presentation.
Pretty much. Many of the starfinder changes (stamina, environmental armor that never gets compromised, ilevels for weapons and armor) are pure game mechanics that can't be rationalized.
Stamina is there for non-magical healing, but has acap on it. Conceptually it isn't much different from 4e's bloodied state and healing surges or 5e's hit dice, though there are some mechanical differences. The big difference is terminology (labelling one pile of HP as stamina), which can potentially confuse people into thinking it is more than that.
Mark Carlson 255.
Thanks also.
You are right that the Stamina can be removed from the game. You could just combine the stamina and hit points and make them hit points. Intern you could use other forms of healing to offset the resolve to recover stamina thing.
Dave2
The idea of it being a videogame-y mechanic is rather odd to me... Can't see I've seen a starfinder style HP/Stamina dynamic in a videogame before.
I'll need to play with it more to be sure. But so far, I'm liking Stamina better.
1. By having a first pool of damage that can only be healed out of combat, magic healing is only needed for the really bad damage. So, classes who can heal often have obviously better things to do than heal, so shouldn't feel as trapped having to be "the healer". In fact it is much easier to get by without a healer.
2. You live with a greater sense of danger once your stamina gets knocked off. Because you know that magic won't bring you back to full for this fight.
3. Resolve is a limited resource that you want to hoard a little but not in total. Because, you want to be near total stamina for every fight but if you run out of resolve you could easily die.
4. The 15 minute adventuring day problem is reduced because most of your party will be ready to push on multiple times before resting.
Would people feel better if "Stamina" was called "luck points"? I think about stamina as an indicator for your awareness and general survivability in combat - scrapes, bruises maybe, and that's it. Get out of combat, catch your breath, recover your focus and awareness. Something that actually hits you and damages you is biting into your hit points.
A high level rifle can do 6d12 + 20 for two hits in one round. Sometimes 3 hits. A solarian could do 12d6 +6d6 +20, again two or three times. That's 160-240 damage a round... maximum 384. Your 340 stamina and 146hp do not last long there. And if you do get into your hp... Take the above. Say she gets knocked down to 15 HP, recovers 20. Now your character still has 340 stamina, but only 35 HP once that's burned through... That's scary, and the hurt stays with you.
Yeah I feel if your considering stamina damage as knife wounds and broken bones you are not describing it as intended. I think it is meant to be avoiding blows and knicks scraps and bruises.
I don't know how you got that as a description of luck.
I don't think its luck. I think it is representing reflexs to avoid and lessen blows as well as taking blows well. Think of it as two boxers fighting. At first they take the hits in stride (with exception of knock outs etc.) But as they begin to fatigue they don't have the energy to to take those blows as well they start slowing they get hit they get hurt more.
Personally I used to both box and fence. Your are far more likely to get hurt when you are fatigued you react slower and its harder to move with a hit.
If you came here to try and get someone to convince you to keep it. I suggest you go ahead and return it. No one will be able to change your mind especially if the only determining factor is If stamina is luck based?
I would look at the damage system as cinematic. Stamina represents a pool that can be used to turn longer lasting injuries (hit point loss) to minor injuries with resolve (stamina loss). I would look at it as cuts, bruises, and scrapes. They could be caused by blast or knife but were scrapes and bruises. Hit Points represents longer lasting injuries that take longer to heal. So it is not to me luck more of turning longer lasting injuries such as hit point loss to minor ones stamina loss that is healed with resolve.
Dave2
Stamina is better than DR, because it adds to the feeling of danger and drama. When you just lose hit points, you can use some magic/tech and be as good as new; but when you lose Stamina it's gone for that fight. It makes the stakes feel a lot higher, even when you have a healer. Meanwhile, DR is just some extra math you have to do every time you take damage.
The limited recovery of stamina also adds extra drama when you are racing against the clock and don't have 10 minutes to get it back.
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Pathfinder system.
People say it's a pain tracking the HP, but they're doing it backwards. You track the DAMAGE, not the health.
The Stamina / HP system is similar to the Vitality Point / Wound Point system of Star Wars D20. It makes sense in a universe based on movies where most weapons can easily kill in one hit.
It makes less sense in Pathfinder-style games.
Something I never understood is why someone had to make this abstraction to begin with. Why CAN'T the dragon-punching demigod shrug off a stab from a peasant's dagger? What's wrong with the shape shifting druid in bear form having arrow shafts sticking from him like porcupine quills while he continues to maul the brigands?
What makes me angry are the silly rationalizations of Hit Point representing luck or skill, but then the healing mechanics failing to use the same mechanical logic. Yes, the Cleric has a harder time healing the more experienced and powerful guy. Why? If HP were representing skill and luck, then healing would scale to the target's level and not the caster. Instead, it just becomes proportionately weaker over time.
The 'bonus' HP also make PC's twice to three times as tough as before. BasicLly the same as getting two Hit Dice per level as far as HP is concerned. This is... excessive in a universe where healing is baked in to the system and so easy to achieve.
I think Mark Carson 255 should be able run game he wants. If the damage system is not to his liking change it. It is easy enough to say Stamina is now hit points. Done very simple and easy to do. The damage system is one of the easiest things to tweak. I toyed with adding an effect such as bleeding, stunned ect after taking your first hit point damage. Not sure going to do it.
For me personally the more I think about Stamina, Hit Points, and resolve the more I like it. The different healing rates between Stamina and hit points is interesting and can make for interesting tactical decisions. Using resolve for abilities, to stabilize, and loosing it when at 0 hit points every round also interesting. Oh ya also need resolve to regain the lost stamina.
Dave2