Quickened Ill Oman vs familiar casting Ill Oman

[Atalius]

Does anyone know the difference between casting a Quickened Ill Oman and then the SoS spell or having your familiar cast Ill Oman and then you follow it up with your SoS spell?

[Orfamay Quest]

Atalius wrote:

Does anyone know the difference between casting a Quickened Ill Oman and then the SoS spell or having your familiar cast Ill Oman and then you follow it up with your SoS spell?

Um,.... well, in one case, your familiar is the caster, and in the other, you are, which affects (for example), how it would interact with a readied action, and may also affect issues like line-of-sight, et cetera.

Your familiar's caster level is probably different (lower) than yours, which means that your familiar's spell will not last as long, will not penetrate spell resistance as well, and will probably affect fewer die rolls than yours.

One thing that will NOT be a difference is the saving throw DC, as Ill Omen does not allow a saving throw.

The most subtle difference that I can think of is the action economy. If your familiar casts the spell, you still have your swift action available, for example, for a different quickened spell. If you suspect, for example, that your opponent has a readied action to dispel or counterspell you, you could use your swift action to cast Quickened Magic Missile (or something similar) and negate his readied action. Your familiar then casts Ill Omen, and you follow up with your save-or-suck spell to full effect.

[andreww]

Your familiar is going to be using a CL1 wand. That will only affect a single roll and it allows SR. You will be using it at CL9+, that will affect at least two rolls.

This is important as if you follow up ill omen with a spell they get a spellcraft check to ID it (if they are trained) which will expend the wand ill omen effect.

[Atalius]

So they could make a Spellcraft check to wave the Ill Oman effect even if it was Quickened? I thought maybe if it was Quickened it would be more difficult to detect. Alright good to know.

[andreww]

Making he spellcraft on the ill omen spell doesn't help, that comes before the spell affects them. The issue if whatever spell you follow up with they can spellcraft which would expend the effect.

If you follow up with a hex though there is no check so they will have to take the double roll. This is why ill omen is such a good witch tactic.

[Ferious Thune]

If it's a Quickened ill omen, though, presumably you are at least 8th level. At 8th level, ill omen affects the next two rolls, so spellcrafting the follow up spell would only expend one of those, and the actual save would be the next one unless they can find a way to trigger a second roll before that.

[Atalius]

andreww wrote:

Making he spellcraft on the ill omen spell doesn't help, that comes before the spell affects them. The issue if whatever spell you follow up with they can spellcraft which would expend the effect.

If you follow up with a hex though there is no check so they will have to take the double roll. This is why ill omen is such a good witch tactic.

Oh I see. So if I cast Fear for example with Quickened Ill Oman, they would need to make a DC 19 Spellcraft check, if they failed that they would need to make two saving throws and take the lowest and I would need to attempt to penetrate there SR?