Estoc for an Unchained Rogue?

[Catharsis]

It's that time of the year again! We're about to start a new campaign in 2–3 months, and the Unchained Rogue is again high up on my list. (I'm playing an Unchained Monk with a level of Occultist in our current Return of the Runelords game, and it's a blast.)

Campaign is either going to be Curse of the Crimson Throne or Strange Aeons. For the latter, a Knife Master with two levels of Occultist would work really well, flavor-wise, both because of the Occultist and because of the Pharasma theme (my main character idea there is a pyro Sorcerer who's terrified of his own strange powers). I think we've discussed that build sufficiently in the posts above.

For CotCT, I'm currently leaning toward a two-handable finesse weapon (Aldori sword probably, since estoc is from a Player Companion and thus most likely not allowed). It would also go well with a level or two of Occultist, but since I just did that for my last character, I'm interested in alternate options.

How about three levels of Magus? My sneak attack will take a hit, but I'll be able to pseudo-flurry with a single pimped-up weapon and buff myself with Shield and the like. The 3rd level gives me the Wand Wielder arcana, which removes the need for those pesky concentration checks, and a higher-level wand of Shocking Grasp should make up for the lost sneak attack dice.

Note: The DM allows material from all hardcover books, whereas Player Companions are typically out. I'm afraid that not only nixes the estoc, but also Piranha Strike. It's going to be difficult for the Knife Master to do damage against SA-immune creatures.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Catharsis wrote:

I wasn't worried about relevant damage with the estoc; at least it has decent base damage to start with, and Dex and PA are going to do the rest when SA should be unavailable. Daggers are really puny though, even with Dex on them...

I figure by 11th level I could have Dex to damage on both the estoc and daggers, so I could quickdraw daggers to TWF along with the estoc when the opportunity is ripe. Or just TWF with UAS if I took Snakebite levels; that would still allow me to do 1.5 Dex damage on AoOs etc.

Pity there's no finessable double weapon (that I know of)...

Double Chained Kama.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Catharsis wrote:

It's that time of the year again! We're about to start a new campaign in 2–3 months, and the Unchained Rogue is again high up on my list.

So, for a melee build that uses Sneak Attack, my first thought is, "How do you lock in your SAD? Feinting? Dirty Tricks to Blind your opponents? Flanking? Shatter Defenses? I think it's a good idea to have a couple of ways.

Also, for SAD Builds, the more attacks you get, the better. The way to get the most Attacks in your Full Attack I know of is a Natural Attack Build. Be a Tengu with Claws. Dip 2 levels in Barbarian and get a Gore Attack. Dip 1 level in White Haired Witch and get a Hair Attack. There are 2 magic items that give you a Gore Attack instead: Helm of the Mammoth Lord and Animal Mask. You like finessable weapons: Natural Attacks are Finessable, but of course on1y 1 of them could you use Finesse Training for, so Claws?

Catharsis wrote:

For CotCT, I'm currently leaning toward a two-handable finesse weapon (Aldori sword probably, since estoc is from a Player Companion and thus most likely not allowed). It would also go well with a level or two of Occultist, but since I just did that for my last character, I'm interested in alternate options.

I think my favorite 2 handed Finesseable weapon is the Elven Curved Blade. High Damage, threat range of 18-20. I noticed you like that Crit-fishing.

Catharsis wrote:

How about three levels of Magus? My sneak attack will take a hit, but I'll be able to pseudo-flurry with a single pimped-up weapon and buff myself with Shield and the like. The 3rd level gives me the Wand Wielder arcana, which removes the need for those pesky concentration checks, and a higher-level wand of Shocking Grasp should make up for the lost sneak attack dice.

Greensting Slayer Magi can get a Sneak Attack bump with their Arcane Pools.

How about 1 level in Arcanist? You can take Dimensional Slide, which you can use to help you Flank.

How about 5 levels in Inquisitor? 3 levels in Inquisitor can get you Teamwork Feats and the Class Ability Solo Tactics that will let you use them. Seize the Moment and Outflank trigger Attacks of Opportunity when people score Crits. Maybe take Paired Opportunist, too. Broken Wing Gambit is an especially sensitive AoO trigger. Precise Strike is a Teamwork Feat you can take that gives you and extra 1d6 Sneak Attack Damage. If you are using a big, 2 handed weapon that also does Sneak Attack Damage, you really want more attacks. Attacks of Opportunity are great for that.

The reason why I said 5 levels in Inquisitor instead of 3 is so you can get Bane.

How about you take Panther Style as a Rogue Talent (Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick, Style Master)? Panther Style Feats give you bonus Free-Action Attacks when you Provoke Attacks of Opportunity by moving out of Threatened Squares. You'd have to use Unarmed Strikes for that, but you could also dip a level in Monk, Master of Many Styles, take Ascetic Style, and use Panther Claw for any weapon in the Monk Weapon Group. To use Elven Curved Blade for that, you would have to take the Human Feat Martial Versatility, and that would require 4 levels in Fighter and/or Brawler. If your Brawler levels were Snakebite Striker levels, you would get an extra 1d6 SAD + Snake Feint is a good way to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage. Anyway, you would take Panther Style for your Unarmed Strikes, Ascetic Style lets you apply Panther Style Feats to your 9 Ring Broadsword, then take Martial Versatility to apply Ascetic Style to any weapon in the same Fighter Group as 9 Ring Broadsword, like Greatsword or Elven Curved Blade.

[Syries]

If your party otherwise has good damage output, you could totally do an estoc-wielding unchained rogue, with surprisingly high armor class to boot.

Scout archetype focusing on spring attack, one attack per round isn’t great for damage output but with a focus on high armor class you could draw AoOs to clear a path for your other melee allies to move past safely.

Half elf with ancestral arms for free EWP. At level 1, 18 Dex with con and wis as your other stats to focus on- at least 14 in each, to help with defenses. Possibly iron will and twist away if you can afford the feats. Work your way towards spring attack. Utilizing Spidersilk Bodysuit if you can get ahold of it, or darkleaf/mithral parade armor otherwise, with a darkwood heavy wooden shield, and Dodge, your AC will be pretty high, particularly when drawing AoOs thanks to mobility. At level 8 you’ll be consistently getting a sneak attack in, so you can really focus on adding rider effects to your attacks. Make them bleed!

[Catharsis]

Thanks for the ideas! I’m trying to keep the flavor Roguey, so I’d rather not use super-weird weapons or natural attacks (did that with a Vivisectionist a few years ago; great fun).

Syries: Yes, that’s what I was thinking. I’m just finishing a campaign with a Monk/Occultist right now, who is a total powerhouse, and I’m up for a vacation from frontline duty. A secondary combatant like a 2H Rogue sound just about right. Party’s going to be a conjurer Wizard, blasty Sorcerer, and presumably a frontliner of some sort (I’m hoping for a Warpriest), so damage shouldn’t be an issue, but being tanky will come in handy.

@Scott: SA = Sneak Attack; SAD = single attribute dependent.