DaedalusV |
I'm GM'ing a home game for a bunch of friends. One of them wanted to play a character heavily inspired from GoT's The Hound. I'm sharing the build here partially for advice on how to go forward with it and to see if there's better ways to do what I've done already.
Basically early on, I've made him an intimidating monster in combat..
Human
(25 pointbuy)
Str: 20 (18+2 racial)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
Drawback: Burned (Because yeah.. Fits like a glove)
Traits:
Blade of Mercy (for his intimidation build)
Clever Wordplay (Intimidate, the reason I gave him int 14 and dumped cha to better simulate his lack of personality together with his intimidation tactics)
Cynical Ear (This can be changed)
He is currently lvl 3:
Fighter 1
Feats:
Fighter Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Human Bonus: Intimidating Prowess
1st level feat: Enforcer
Fighter 2
Fighter Bonus Feat: Weapon Focus
Fighter 2/Rogue(Thug) 1
3rd level feat: Hurtful
Intimidate modifier: 3 ranks +3 class +2 int +5 str = +13
(+mwork tool etc etc)
So at 3rd level he: moves to enemy, hits enemy with non-lethal damage (Sword of mercy longsword attack) that triggers a free action demoralize attempt, if it works he can attack again as a swift action, again using non-lethal for another free action demoralize.)
Rogue(Thug) has the Frightening class ability. It prolongs the shaken condition with 1 and it lets you give an enemy the frightened Condition instead of Shaken IF the shaken condition is 4+ rounds.
So if he hits with both attacks he will in all likelyhood frighten the enemy for 2 rounds. (up to 4 if he crits on both due To Enforcer+hurtful)
The planned build for the next levels:
4 fighter levels
So @ lvl 7:
Dazzling Display
Violent Display
Disheartening Display
Shatter Defenses (retrained bonus fighter feat)
For even more Intimidation Goodies...
Can this build be improved upon (my player really wants to be using intimidate alot both single target and AoE)
I want to keep weapon training for the goodies introduced recently
He needs max intimidate, ride, handle animal at the least (he's made an awesome backstory involving his horse so I'll give that one to him eventually, probably through the nature soul -> AC + boon companion line) So I'm thinking he really really needs all the feats he can get.
DaedalusV |
@Grandlounge Very true, but that doesn't come online until 6th, he wanted to be able to do intimidating stuff from level 1 (And I am a min/maxer, so wasting standard actions to use demoralize for 6 levels really didn't work for me) *edit* Plus tbh. Enforcer is really really strong since the duration of your demoralize attempt will be = the damage dealt instead of 1 round/5 you succeed the intimidate check. */edit*
Of course It's possible to rebuild a bit around level 6-7 to get cornugon smash and switch out blade of mercy+enforcer.. I'll take that into consideration, thank you.
Eltacolibre |
As official as it gets for the hound, dragon magazine back in the day made stats for the hound...of course I think they exaggerated the levels of all characters.
Of course they went with the approach that he is a knight...so he has all the minimum that all knights would have in his setting.
He uses a bastard sword, beside the generic feats like cleave, great cleave etc...has all the mounted combat feats.
Which of course, is normal for the setting of Westeros, since basically if you are a knight...that what you do, learn to fight on mounts and the likes.
But well for pathfinder, I would simply take advantage of the fighter options like getting the feat advanced weapon training at level 5, I believe so he can get access to Versatile training, where the fighter can use his base attack bonus instead of ranks in intimidate. For the second skill could go Bluff or Ride...it works either way.
Grandlounge |
High crit weapons will frighten more often which is actually powerful compared to shaken which is only ok.
Hasted + 2 iterative attacks with a high crit weapons with an expanded crit range should frighten almost every round.
Consider a cruel weapon.
The game has no way to retrain traits so make sure retraining them is ok with your gm.
Edit nm your the gm.
Louise Bishop |
I've never been a fan of dazzling display or any of that line.
Enforcer or C. Smash are the ways to go IMHO. Grab a cruel weapon and make it worst for your target. But because of how fast combat goes and needs to end I feel the fighter needs to be killing things every chance he gets without wasting any action economy.
DaedalusV |
High crit weapons will frighten more often which is actually powerful compared to shaken which is only ok.
Hasted + 2 iterative attacks with a high crit weapons with an expanded crit range should frighten almost every round.
Consider a cruel weapon.
The game has no way to retrain traits so make sure retraining them is ok with your gm.
Edit nm your the gm.
Noted.
My player wants him to use sword and board, I'll see if I can get him hyped up on a 18-20 crit weapon..I've never been a fan of dazzling display or any of that line.
Enforcer or C. Smash are the ways to go IMHO. Grab a cruel weapon and make it worst for your target. But because of how fast combat goes and needs to end I feel the fighter needs to be killing things every chance he gets without wasting any action economy.
Yeah I gave him enforcer/blade of mercy to give him single target Frighten @lvl 3
The dazzling display stuff is a nice way for him to influence things in AoE, the party lacks AoE Debuffing, so I'm thinking it'll be helpful.
Cruel will be his second enchant (if going for crit fishing, I'd value Keen over cruel)
BigNorseWolf wrote:Never seen anything to indicate a 14 int . 16 con might be warranted given what he lived through under westerosi medicine.Agreed. I think you should swap INT and WIS. Also clever wordplay... LoL. Try Intimidating prowess instead.
He has Intimidating prowess AND clever wordplay and the 14 int is a nice way (I think) to give him more skillpoints per level to use (for ride/handle animal etc)
Plus I dumped his charisma to reflect his lack of personality/bad way with people.(To me clever wordplay could just as well be called Brutishly intimidating or W/E the main useage was giving him a way to beef up intimidate while keeping his charisma low so diplo and bluff stays lower...)
Ofc, I could min/max a bit more on his secondary stats (con(wis/dex) but the 14 int is really just there to make sure there's enough skillpoints to go around.
I've been considering giving him brawler levels or slayer levels after level 3, even a couple of barbarian levels for rage powers, but I wanted to keep the dipping down to a manageable amount for a new player, while still keeping stuff interesting for him.
Dazzling display ->shatter defenses + Violent Display +Disheartening Display
Might be a bit too focused on intimidation tactics for the character to remain "The Hound" Maybe I should rethink and go earlier into some mounted stuff and/or some shield bash shenanigans...
Louise Bishop |
Noted.
My player wants him to use sword and board, I'll see if I can get him hyped up on a 18-20 crit weapon..Louise Bishop wrote:I've never been a fan of dazzling display or any of that line.
Enforcer or C. Smash are the ways to go IMHO. Grab a cruel weapon and make it worst for your target. But because of how fast combat goes and needs to end I feel the fighter needs to be killing things every chance he gets without wasting any action economy.
Yeah I gave him enforcer/blade of mercy to give him single target Frighten @lvl 3
The dazzling display stuff is a nice way for him to influence things in AoE, the party lacks AoE Debuffing, so I'm thinking it'll be helpful.
Cruel will be his second enchant (if going for crit fishing, I'd value Keen over cruel)
I value Improved Critical over Keen. I know it is not the normal thought of Why take a feat when you can buy an enchant but I have 2 reasons.
1: Oils of Bless weapon are 50gp. They will work with Improved critical. Roll a 15-20 and you Auto Critical. Makes things pretty simple.
2: Gold is precious to me as a player. Usually, there are better things I would rather spend my resource on other things. Sometimes you just can't work it into the budget. Other Classes like paladin that can add it to a weapon they could be getting to +2 enchantments quicker. Things like Holy or Burst seem a lot better to me when you are taking care of the Improved Critical in your feats. So I feel I can get stronger weapons by taking the feat than by trying to buy it or always allocating my divine bond/Arcane pool to picking up Keen. Sure the early levels it is fine. I also like spending money on special materials like adamantine which also costs money that would normally be spent on keen.
Grandlounge |
Have you considered the Knightly class cavilier. You can get the horse and the stuff to go with it grab spirited charge.
Knight Errant would be a good order.
Order of the Beast (ISC) would fit two.
Order of the Cockatrice is good for intimidate and fighting without allies.
Order of Vengeance is also an intimidate order that also give improved crit at level 8
Dave Justus |
Personally, I don't see the Hound as being low CHR at all. Sure, he isn't pretty, but pretty is just one way that CHR can manifest. He definitely has a forceful personality, is someone people will listen to (even if they don't like.) Sure, he has focused on intimidate, not diplomacy, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a good CHR.
And while your build is functional mechanically, it doesn't feel like the hound either. While I certainly agree that the hound uses intimidate as his default personal skill, he doesn't particularly use it in combat that I recall, rather he wins because he is good. He doesn't screw around with scaring you, he just kills you.
If I was making the hound, I would probably go fighter with maybe a brawler dip to add a little flexibility, Sandor is pretty adaptable after all.