The Scenario: Asmodeus gathers Baalzebul and Mephistopheles into his private chambers. The two Archdevils are to participate in a one on one death match to prove their devotion to the king of the nine. The victor shall inherit the loser's realm and assets. The loser shall forever be doomed to oblivion!
Rules of the Duel:
- No wishes.
- No outside help except for summons and the like (i.e. only what's in the stat block).
- Asmodeus gives no advanced warning, and thus both archdevils have no time to perform buffs before the battle.
- All else goes! Baazlebub and Mephistopheles fight to the death!
In case you aren't aware, statistics for both Baazlebub and Mephistopheles can be found in Bestiary 6.
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Edit: Actually I tell a lie. Baalz has the easy win. Passive Mindblank and Greater Invis at will. Meph has absolutely no way around that and thus loses eventually.
Greater Dispel Magic has a 50% chance to succeed the caster check on an area dispel, and a 1/3 chance (assuming GI is the only optional buff) to hit either GI or Mindblank. Not great, but not nothing.
Baalzebub does only takes 50% weapon damage (before DR) and can enter/leave Suffocating Swarm form as a free action before/after every attack routine, which depending on "after its move" in the swarm rules may append that damage on the end of a standard or full attack with his sword. If he attacks in that form Mephistopheles actually only has a 50% chance to save against being Nauseated and starting to suffocate.
Baalzebul is stupid powerful against anything but (non-SR) elemental area of effect attacks. A group of dragons with electricity breath weapons could actually burn him down pretty fast, most others are in trouble, with a special note to Nocticula, who has a good chance (60%) of stripping away his immunity to compulsion with her aura, and if successful can try to maintain range and spam dominate until he becomes her slave (30% chance per attempt). Or she also brings a a bunch of dominated blue dragons with her, since she's immune to their breath weapons.
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The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.
It depends on who Mephistopheles had stabbed beforehand with visineir as he. An summon them as a standard action
The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.
Huh???
The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.Huh???
Asmodeus wouldn't be blatant enough to order two of his minions to fight to the death. Therefore, something must be wearing his face.
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It Must be Rysky! This is what happens when a box of chocolate covered pugwampis go missing!Asmodeus wouldn't be blatant enough to order two of his minions to fight to the death. Therefore, something must be wearing his face.The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.Huh???
>_>
<_<
:3
Asmodeus wouldn't be blatant enough to order two of his minions to fight to the death. Therefore, something must be wearing his face.The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.Huh???
Sure he would, if James Jacobs wanted to make a point about the shortfalls of pride and abuses of power or some such. PF Asmodeus is the guy who got outsmarted, humiliated, and outplayed by a third rate demon lord, after all.
Now D&D Asmodeus would never do that.
Asmodeus wouldn't be blatant enough to order two of his minions to fight to the death. Therefore, something must be wearing his face.The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.Huh???Sure he would, if James Jacobs wanted to make a point about the shortfalls of pride and abuses of power or some such. PF Asmodeus is the guy who got outsmarted, humiliated, and outplayed by a third rate demon lord, after all.
Now D&D Asmodeus would never do that.
Who's this third rate demon lord that made a fool out of Asmodeus?
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Who's this third rate demon lord that made a fool out of Asmodeus?Asmodeus wouldn't be blatant enough to order two of his minions to fight to the death. Therefore, something must be wearing his face.The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.Huh???Sure he would, if James Jacobs wanted to make a point about the shortfalls of pride and abuses of power or some such. PF Asmodeus is the guy who got outsmarted, humiliated, and outplayed by a third rate demon lord, after all.
Now D&D Asmodeus would never do that.
Baphomet, who definitely isn't a third rate demon lord, and also didn't humiliate or make a fool out of Asmodeus. He barely survived both being branded and the maze Asmodeus threw him in after who knows how long (centuries?) and took the pentagram as his symbol after having his body wrecked.
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Baphomet, who definitely isn't a third rate demon lord, and also didn't humiliate or make a fool out of Asmodeus. He barely survived both being branded and the maze Asmodeus threw him in after who knows how long (centuries?) and took the pentagram as his symbol after having his body wrecked.Who's this third rate demon lord that made a fool out of Asmodeus?Asmodeus wouldn't be blatant enough to order two of his minions to fight to the death. Therefore, something must be wearing his face.The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.Huh???Sure he would, if James Jacobs wanted to make a point about the shortfalls of pride and abuses of power or some such. PF Asmodeus is the guy who got outsmarted, humiliated, and outplayed by a third rate demon lord, after all.
Now D&D Asmodeus would never do that.
Ten years, explicitly. And Jacobs has also said on these forums that the intent was for Asmodeus to be upset by a lesser creature that he underestimated so easily thwarting his punishment, to the point that he would think twice before moving against Baphomet again.
And Baphomet is absolutely a third rate demon lord. Now if it was Abraxas or Pazuzu, then we may be having a conversation.
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Baphomet, who definitely isn't a third rate demon lord, and also didn't humiliate or make a fool out of Asmodeus. He barely survived both being branded and the maze Asmodeus threw him in after who knows how long (centuries?) and took the pentagram as his symbol after having his body wrecked.Who's this third rate demon lord that made a fool out of Asmodeus?Asmodeus wouldn't be blatant enough to order two of his minions to fight to the death. Therefore, something must be wearing his face.The being that killed and replaced Asmodeus wins. After all, it will be very easy to kill the winner after they expended so much power fighting the loser.Huh???Sure he would, if James Jacobs wanted to make a point about the shortfalls of pride and abuses of power or some such. PF Asmodeus is the guy who got outsmarted, humiliated, and outplayed by a third rate demon lord, after all.
Now D&D Asmodeus would never do that.
Ten years, explicitly. And Jacobs has also said on these forums that the intent was for Asmodeus to be upset by a lesser creature that he underestimated so easily thwarting his punishment, to the point that he would think twice before moving against Baphomet again.
And Baphomet is absolutely a third rate demon lord. Now if it was Abraxas or Pazuzu, then we may be having a conversation.
Went and reread the baphomet article, huh, I though it was longer.
And this in post he said it was a "minor annoyance" and that while Asmodeus was wary of encountering him again, he wasn't going after him because he didn't really see any need to, not out of fear or humiliation. It's more not wanting to throw him into another trap and forget about him, than moving against him, if Asmodeus actually wanted to destroy Baphomet rather than try to trick him he absolutely could without breaking a sweat.
I'm also confused why you keep praising but also dismissing Baphomet at the same time, after all he's done I wouldn't call him a "third rate" demon lord.
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Mephistopheles easily wins.
You see, eons ago, the archdevils were playing poker in Avernus. Baalzebul however, a little too confident in his skills as a card shark, ended up short a few billion souls. Mephistopheles was a generous friend, so he offered to cover Baalzebul's debts in return for a small favor.
"What do you want?", asked the Lord of Flies.
"How about a promise?", replied Mephistopheles, "if by some chance we're ever ordered to fight to the death by Asmodeus, you won't do anything to harm me."
"Well I don't see when that would ever happen, so sure. I agree to that."
"Excellent. Sign here."
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Mephistopheles easily wins.
You see, eons ago, the archdevils were playing poker in Avernus. Baalzebul however, a little too confident in his skills as a card shark, ended up short a few billion souls. Mephistopheles was a generous friend, so he offered to cover Baalzebul's debts in return for a small favor.
"What do you want?", asked the Lord of Flies.
"How about a promise?", replied Mephistopheles, "if by some chance we're ever ordered to fight to the death by Asmodeus, you won't do anything to harm me."
"Well I don't see when that would ever happen, so sure. I agree to that."
"Excellent. Sign here."
Bonus points if someone paid Mephistopheles to throw the fight as well.
After the fight, Nyarlathotep reveals himself and winks at the winner, moving out of the plane. Asmodeus opens the door saying... "What the heavens?! O.o
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The Scenario: Asmodeus gathers Baalzebul and Mephistopheles into his private chambers.:3The two Archdevils are to participate in a one on one death match to prove their devotion to the king of the nine.:(
Lol ofcourse Rysky is a arch devil fan girl. I bet she does fan-fiction of them. :DDD
Awkward fan fiction.
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The Scenario: Asmodeus gathers Baalzebul and Mephistopheles into his private chambers.:3The two Archdevils are to participate in a one on one death match to prove their devotion to the king of the nine.:(Lol ofcourse Rysky is a arch devil fan girl. I bet she does fan-fiction of them. :DDD
Awkward fan fiction.
:3
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And Baphomet is absolutely a third rate demon lord. Now if it was Abraxas or Pazuzu, then we may be having a conversation.
While not the most powerful, not only is Baphomet the most intelligent demon lord every statted up (Int 37), I'm pretty sure he's the most intelligent demigod ever published. He edges out the top Archdevils (Baalzebul and Mephistopheles), Great Old One (Tawil at’Umr), and Horseman (Charon), who are all Int 35, as is Nocticula.
I'm also confused why you keep praising but also dismissing Baphomet at the same time, after all he's done I wouldn't call him a "third rate" demon lord.
Because I don't see that event as elevating Baphomet, I see it as diminishing Asmodeus.
Granted this is a personal flaw of mine that I've never been able to shake. I think it comes from my smart-mark habits as a wrestling fan. But when I know something is a work - that it is a story being written and predetermined and not a real life contest that's actually demonstrative of the skills of real individuals in real conflict, but just the whims of the author - I tend to play favorites a lot.
So in the case of Baphomet - a character that I've never thought much of and has never impressed me - gets one over on Asmodeus - who, legacying back to D&D is one of my favorite characters in tabletop gaming, period - it doesn't make me think that Baphomet has accomplished anything, it just annoys me that one of my favorites took a loss to make a character like Baphomet - a character that got effortlessly killed by Nocticula(a character that I actively dislike) in the previous module and even more effortlessly killed by my fighter at the end of Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth - look better.
But that's getting well off topic at this point and I'd rather not derail the thread anymore.
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So, Baphomet is the Squirrel Girl of demon lords, I guess?
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Asmodeus has a pact with Hell itself. Forcing the Red Son to fight the White Son to the death for lulz would probably break that pact.
And also, their loyalty to Asmodeus is absolute. Fighting to prove their loyalty would be a pointless exercise. (I think my point is that they'd do it if they were ordered to, but Asmodeus would never give that order.)
Baalzebul got in trouble for arguing that he should be above all the other archdevils, rather than challenging his god dad for the top spot.
(Baalzebul hates his god dad for turning him from a magnificent angel into a swarm of hell flies, but what Baalzebul wants is not Daddy's throne; what he truly craves is Daddy's approval.)
While Mephistopheles' loyalty to Asmodeus is simply unimpeachable. He doesn't need his maker's approval - he shares his maker's cause, and would carry on with it even if Asmodeus fell.
Huh.
Even if Asmodeus simply vanished from Hell and never came back (or was even outright destroyed), most of his archdukes would continue on the Mission without pause - or even with renewed determination.
They might squabble with each other over who should be leading the Mission, but they would never give up the Mission itself.
Edit: It occurs to me there wouldn't be a succession struggle. An entity who is law incarnate almost certainly has a will. Just because it should never come up doesn't mean it's not a good idea to have.
If Mephistopheles was lucky enough to have a swarm bane clasp, Baalzebul's 50% protection from physical attacks would be snuffed out.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/clasp -swarmbane/
Each has true seeing, so greater invisibility is useless. I'm not sure summoning in round 1 is an absolute best option for either one, as losing initiative two rounds in a row and only summoning in round one could be a recipe for disaster. B-bul does have a speed of 120' and Mephisto 100' ... not sure how much of a factor that might be, but it is a slight edge in movement.
If it devolved into physical attacks, both have a high enough attack bonus to hit almost every time. They both have the same initiative [+14] so it would become a flip of the coin, unless B-bul gets to maintain his "swarm body" defenses. then the -50% damage is too much for Mephisto to overcome.
Each has true seeing, so greater invisibility is useless.
Each also has Mind Blank, so True Seeing directed at their body is useless.