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They are technically supposed to have their own init, but i think you'll find a lot of people putting them on the casters init to save time
There should be no variation on giving them orders. They're not animals, they don't use the handle animal rules, they're smarter than most of your party members.
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Technically, if you roll initiative for both, and then have one delay to the other's initiative, they are going at the same time, and no rules have been bent or broken. If one has a much higher initiative modifier than the other, and you only roll for the fast one, you are giving a boost to the other.
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It's a long time since anyone I've played with has not okayed handling companions/eidolons/familiars/phantoms on the player's turn. It saves time. And sanity.I don't find that I really saves any time and require familiars and animal companions to work on their own initiative.
It really does take more time.
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Even online, switching people takes time. When i see ungrouped enemies in initiative i grab something to whittle because I know its going to be a long time in between rounds.
I;ve never seen someone try to ungroup in person. This mook is that mini goes on that init and has that much damage/status is too much info to juggle.
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Even online, switching people takes time. When i see ungrouped enemies in initiative i grab something to whittle because I know its going to be a long time in between rounds.
I;ve never seen someone try to ungroup in person. This mook is that mini goes on that init and has that much damage/status is too much info to juggle.
I do it. It's not that bad.
There are no rules allowing grouping baddies in Pathfinder. Some do it, yes. But unless you're also going to houserule that mooks=one shot turn wasters, you're still gonna have to keep up with their individual HP.
In PFS, there are no house rules. So you really shouldn't group your bad guys.
Plus, grouped bad guys can often mean dead characters. 5 rogues all going on one initiative is fine - assuming you roll 5 and take the lowest because they all delay in order to move together. But 5 rogues acting on a 22 can simply remove a character from play.
Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
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Stephen hits the nail on the head. All baddies go on same turn and swarm one character, character gone.
As i get more proficient as a GM, individual baddies do not take much time to run.
As for familiars and AC's getting their own turn on initiative. I am more likely to do it IRL games than online.
And when it comes to GM controlling your animal companions, NO. I have enough stuff to keep track of. I usually just look over the companions tricks, and as long as you can make the handle animal roll, go have fun.
If you are going to have shared initiative, you probably should use the lower applicable initiative modifier rather than the master's.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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When I'm noting initiative modifiers before game, I'll find out if the master and critter are relatively close in modifier. If they are, I'll just let them both go on the master's. If they're farther apart, I'll make them go separate. How much margin depends on feel - I'm generally fine for up to a 4 point difference.
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As a player, I ask what the GM prefers, and will make a point of noting when my PC has a much higher init than the pet - my sorcerer with a +14 init I expect to go separately from his AC at +4. I can either issue a command that she will follow on her turn or have her delay to mine if she rolls well and I poorly.
As a GM, I follow a similar rule - if the inits are close, I run on the same one, if they are not, I run them separately.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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When playing, I have been known to just roll separately, and take the lower, just to avoid arguments.
Don't forget that even if you have them both go on the same init, they have to take there turns separately. So no "I five foot to the left of the enemy, then my AC/familiar/eidolon five foots to the right into flank, then we both full attack."
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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There are a couple of mysterious references in the game to true simultaneous action, like a trampling herd of aurochs. That aside, when I say "act on the same turn" I don't mean totally simultaneous. No shenanigans with simultaneously 5ft stepping into a flank and full attack.
But putting all the critters under a player's control at the same initiative count, executing them right after the other, saves on switchover time between players, remembering if commands are still valid and meaningful, and just the total number of things on the initiative track. In my experience the more things on an initiative track the bigger the odds that the guy running the track makes mistakes.
Also, summoned critters are acting on their summoners' turn anyway.
Put in another way: if the GM wouldn't allow starting the combat grouped initiative I'd probably just use Delays until it was like that anyway. As it happens my companions tend to have better initiative modifiers than my main PCs on those characters so nobody feels I'm trying to get an unfair advantage.
In addition to using the lower initiative modifier, the other rule my GM used was to require one or the other of summoner and eidolon to take a complete turn before the other went. I could choose except in the rare cases where I lost control of one of them (for example, when my eidolon was confused). In that case, the one with the higher inititative modifier went first.
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In addition to using the lower initiative modifier, the other rule my GM used was to require one or the other of summoner and eidolon to take a complete turn before the other went. I could choose except in the rare cases where I lost control of one of them (for example, when my eidolon was confused). In that case, the one with the higher inititative modifier went first.
That's because that's how turns work. Whoever goes first but wants to go second is just delaying.
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It's a long time since anyone I've played with has not okayed handling companions/eidolons/familiars/phantoms on the player's turn. It saves time. And sanity.I don't find that I really saves any time and require familiars and animal companions to work on their own initiative.
I typically have them work on different initiatives as well. Especially if the initiative modifiers are different.
If they are the same, I will have them go on the same initiative, or if the class feature entity (CFE) won't be doing much (just wands or a lot of aiding or readied actions) in combat.
Familiars don't need any special commands once they can do more than empathic communication.
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It's a long time since anyone I've played with has not okayed handling companions/eidolons/familiars/phantoms on the player's turn. It saves time. And sanity.I make them work on their own initiative. But you gotta give your order on yours.
Which, depending on the command, and whether you have the Link for animal companions or mount, that action may preclude you from readying and definitely precludes you from delaying.
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In PFS, there are no house rules. So you really shouldn't group your bad guys.
The guide specifically allows for GMs to make modifications to game play for ease of play. This is not wholesale changing rules or using home rules, but rather speeding up play. That being said, caveat following...
Plus, grouped bad guys can often mean dead characters. 5 rogues all going on one initiative is fine - assuming you roll 5 and take the lowest because they all delay in order to move together. But 5 rogues acting on a 22 can simply remove a character from play.
If as a GM, you are going to speed up game play by lumping initiative together, it is also your responsibility to NOT make this more deadly than it needs to be. The biggest mistake I see GM's make, is creating situations that are more deadly than they should be by using their allowed discretion incorrectly or inadvertently.