As often as they want to spend 1 hour doing nothing but brewing it, and holding up the party.
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Are you referring to the alchemist discovery that allows for the holding of more than one mutagen?
If so, start being a little more stringent on how often he would have the opportunity to prepare additional mutagens. Also make sure that he's accounting for the INT damage the character will be taking for each additional mutagen created. If he hasn't been using lesser restoration everytime he took INT damage, then the character's probably a vegetable at this point.
Of course, if there are long periods of time where the character is left to his own devices, then he may have all the time in the world to produce such concoctions and recover (via rest or a spell/wand).
Volkspanzer, an alchemist can rebrew his mutagen with on hour of time. This is an aspect of the mutagen class feature. There are no hard limits on uses per day for the mutagen, although there are certainly soft limits.
I agree with Cheapy. I plan on playing a multi-class alchemist in an upcoming game. I also plan to brew another mutagen every time there's an opportunity to in-game. Before bed? Yep. In the morning? Yep. When the team breaks to have lunch? Yep.
Do I expect the DM to give me a 1-hour break after every fight so I can hit every encounter at full capacity? Not really... I hope the games are a bit more organic than that.
Plus, if the designers intended the Mutagen to only be used 1/day, then it would be a 1/day ability.
Can we get some more specifics? Is he using it to pump up his STR to become a melee beast?
The alchemist can only have one single mutagen at a time unless he has Infuse Mutagen. If he brews another mutagen, the previous mutagen he brewed goes inert.
The soft limit I spoke of is the number of hours in the day in your world. I suppose saying there isn't a hard limit is a bit misleading, as you can't make more than 24 mutagens in a day assuming that's the length.
Should you enforce a limit of number of times per day he can brew it? I strongly recommend not doing so. Should you always let him have 1 hour to brew it after it runs out? I strongly recommend not doing so.
If he wants to spend a discovery and 1k per mutagen, he can make back ups with Infuse Mutagen. But that's pretty expensive for a class ability.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: don't worry about it. Have a mix of times where he can brew it, and when he can't. There's no need for a hard limit, as such limits will organically come up now and then.
Are you referring to the alchemist discovery that allows for the holding of more than one mutagen?
If so, start being a little more stringent on how often he would have the opportunity to prepare additional mutagens. Also make sure that he's accounting for the INT damage the character will be taking for each additional mutagen created. If he hasn't been using lesser restoration everytime he took INT damage, then the character's probably a vegetable at this point.
Of course, if there are long periods of time where the character is left to his own devices, then he may have all the time in the world to produce such concoctions and recover (via rest or a spell/wand).
Volkspanzer, I think you are confusing -2 INT penalty with INT damage. The penalty goes away as soon as the mutagen stop working.
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Volkspanzer, an alchemist can rebrew his mutagen with on hour of time. This is an aspect of the mutagen class feature. There are no hard limits on uses per day for the mutagen, although there are certainly soft limits.
I'm well aware of that, but circumstances would perhaps not allow an alchemist to have the quiet and comfortable settings needed to produce a mutagen. Though he's not preparing spells, I'm sure precise measurements and mixing is needed to produce such a concoction.
For example, while in a caravan that is travelling across rough terrain, the alchemist probably wouldn't be able to produce a mutagen.
Volkspanzer, I think you are confusing -2 INT penalty with INT damage. The penalty goes away as soon as the mutagen stop working.
Infuse mutagen: When the alchemist creates a mutagen, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. This inflicts 2 points of Intelligence damage to the alchemist and costs 1,000 gp in rare reagents, but the mutagen created persists on its own and is not rendered inert if the alchemist creates another mutagen. This allows an alchemist to create different types of mutagens and keep them handy for emergencies. This does not allow an alchemist to gain the effects of multiple mutagens—only the most recently imbibed mutagen has any effect.
The ability to produce another mutagen in anything but optimal conditions seems a little cheesy. In fact, I think the intent of Infuse Mutagen was for the exact purposes that our problem alchemist is trying to accomplish. While in a dungeon or hostile area, I wouldn't expect that a party would think it a good idea for the alchemist to sit there and create a mutagen. Best case scenario, he'll end up using his newly-created mutagen in the random encounter that initiated during the time they spent standing around..
So its a rule you would still consider worth enforcing? Just because I don't want to put him at a power disadvantage, we have very combat oriented campaigns, but I also don't want to give him the ability 24/7 if clearly there was meant to be a soft limit to how much he can functionally make at a time
You shouldn't concern yourself with that too much, once he gets to a certain level (14 I believe), his mutagens will last 1 hour per level, rather than 10 minutes per level. And, assuming they get a full 8 hours a day, then he will probably see use of one mutagen 90 percent of the working day.
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Its worth mentioning that in the magic item creation section it notes that while adventuring the crafter can devote 4 hours to item creation, but only nets 2 hours worth of work. The devoted time is assumed to take place during downtime, such as when others are setting up camp or preparing their spells. If we assume brewing a mutagen is akin to brewing a potion, its feasible that you could brew 2 mutagens in a day without holding up the party (although they may be annoyed that you're not helping out around camp).
I'm currently playing an Alchemist and my personal opinion is that I should be able to brew the mutagen when its feasible to do so. The challenge of managing when to drink and when to brew, especially in a dungeon crawl scenario, is a fun aspect of the game.
As a GM I would play it out and see how it goes. Let the other party members react in character and let the alchemist plead his case for pausing to brew. If he starts handing out free potions of enlarge person, the other members might be more willing to hang out for an hour.
If you feel its gotten out of control, (are they pausing for an hour every 10 minutes) you could always throw in consquences. During that hour cleared rooms could become repopulated or reinformcements could arrive.
Volkspanzer, I think you are confusing -2 INT penalty with INT damage. The penalty goes away as soon as the mutagen stop working.Infuse mutagen: When the alchemist creates a mutagen, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. This inflicts 2 points of Intelligence damage to the alchemist and costs 1,000 gp in rare reagents, but the mutagen created persists on its own and is not rendered inert if the alchemist creates another mutagen. This allows an alchemist to create different types of mutagens and keep them handy for emergencies. This does not allow an alchemist to gain the effects of multiple mutagens—only the most recently imbibed mutagen has any effect.
The ability to produce another mutagen in anything but optimal conditions seems a little cheesy. In fact, I think the intent of Infuse Mutagen was for the exact purposes that our problem alchemist is trying to accomplish. While in a dungeon or hostile area, I wouldn't expect that a party would think it a good idea for the alchemist to sit there and create a mutagen. Best case scenario, he'll end up using his newly-created mutagen in the random encounter that initiated during the time they spent standing around..
OK, I forgot that part about Infuse Mutagen. To me, however, the real downside of mutagens (not infused mutagens, just vanilla mutagens) is not the fact that it takes 1 hour to brew, but the fact that, unlike Rage, it takes 1 standard action to consume, which hurts your action economy if used in battle. Sure, intelligent monsters won't let you set up a lab in their fortress so that you can brew a new mutagen between every fights, but, in some circumstances, it can be easily done. For example, I'm playing an Alchemist in the first module of Carrion Crown and, because of the special nature of the bad guys in this AP, nothing prevented me from preparing a new mutagen in the middle of a dungeon. I'm not saying I'll be able to pull this off during the entire AP but, depending on the campaing and the type of encounters, "optimal conditions" are not that hard to meet.
It lasts for 10 minutes per level. I'm not sure why you'd be drinking it in battle unless you were completely surprised.
What do fighters do when they approach an ominous door? Get their weapons out. You drink your mutagen :)
It lasts for 10 minutes per level. I'm not sure why you'd be drinking it in battle unless you were completely surprised.
What do fighters do when they approach an ominous door? Get their weapons out. You drink your mutagen :)
Well, concerning my personal experience with Carrion Crown, opponents do not announce themselves before attacking you, and they are not always located behind ominous doors...
I just finished running the Haunting of Harrowstone, and knowing how the module works, I can assure you that part of that statement is wrong. Unless your GM is changing things.
Correct, I should have said : not all opponents announce themselves before attacking you.