| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Nature Bond (Ex): At 1st level, a druid forms a bond with nature. This bond can take one of two forms. The first is a close tie to the natural world, granting the druid one of the following cleric domains: Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water, or Weather.
Nature Bond: A wolf shaman who chooses an animal companion must select a wolf. If choosing a domain, the wolf shaman must choose from the Animal, Community, Liberation, and Travel domains.
Presented in the section below are new rules for animal and terrain domains—domains for druids whose focus is more specific than the Animal, Plant, Weather, or elemental domains. A druid with the nature's bond ability can choose an animal domain or terrain domain.
Which rule carries weight,"the wolf shaman must choose from the Animal, Community, Liberation, and Travel domains." or "A druid with the nature's bond ability can choose an animal domain or terrain domain."?
This is for a PFS character. Please include citations if you have them.
Thanks in advance for your help!
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You've got the citations already, but it's a matter of figuring out the correct order in which to apply them.
1) Basic rule: specific rules trump general rules. The Core Rulebook provides us the most general rules.
2) Ultimate Magic expands the general rules for druids using the set of domains from the Core Rulebook (i.e. Animal, Plant, Weather, or elemental). If your druid archetype doesn't choose from that set, this rule doesn't apply to you.
3) The Wolf Shaman archetype replaces the set of domains that this archetype uses. It is no longer the "pattern" from the CRB that Ultimate Magic would expand.
Conclusion: sadly, the Wolf Shaman can't take the Wolf domain (unless Paizo provides a fix for what looks like a design error). You'd expect such a fix in the FAQs for Ultimate Magic or Advanced Player's Guide, but they're not there.
You've got the citations already, but it's a matter of figuring out the correct order in which to apply them.
1) Basic rule: specific rules trump general rules. The Core Rulebook provides us the most general rules.
2) Ultimate Magic expands the general rules for druids using the set of domains from the Core Rulebook (i.e. Animal, Plant, Weather, or elemental). If your druid archetype doesn't choose from that set, this rule doesn't apply to you.
3) The Wolf Shaman archetype replaces the set of domains that this archetype uses. It is no longer the "pattern" from the CRB that Ultimate Magic would expand.
Conclusion: sadly, the Wolf Shaman can't take the Wolf domain (unless Paizo provides a fix for what looks like a design error). You'd expect such a fix in the FAQs for Ultimate Magic or Advanced Player's Guide, but they're not there.
Thank you for your reply.
I am not committed to the idea as I have not yet played the character but I would like to challenge your conclusion for the sake of discussion.
Wouldn't the Ultimate Magic rule be the more specific rule (not to mention being the most chronologically recent) as it dives deeper than the general character class and refers to the more specific Nature Bond class ability? The Wolf domain is not on the Wolf Shaman domain list, but it is also not on the Druid domain list. Ultimate Magic expands the Nature Bond class ability, which the Druid core class and Wolf Shaman Druid archetype share, to include animal and terrain domains.
When Ultimate Magic rules that "A druid with the nature's bond ability can choose an animal domain or terrain domain", are the Shaman archetypes not Druid's that possess the Nature Bond class ability?
Because this is for PFS, I am more concerned with RAW over RAI, but if one were to insert RAI into the discussion, it does not seem sensible that "Other nature-themed classes with access to domains may select an animal or terrain domain in place of a regular domain" while Druids with access to the Animal domain cannot.
Does anyone know of an official ruling?
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Wouldn't the Ultimate Magic rule be the more specific rule (not to mention being the most chronologically recent) as it dives deeper than the general character class and refers to the more specific Nature Bond class ability? The Wolf domain is not on the Wolf Shaman domain list, but it is also not on the Druid domain list. Ultimate Magic expands the Nature Bond class ability, which the Druid core class and Wolf Shaman Druid archetype share, to include animal and terrain domains.
When Ultimate Magic rules that "A druid with the nature's bond ability can choose an animal domain or terrain domain", are the Shaman archetypes not Druid's that possess the Nature Bond class ability?
The Advanced Player's Guide basically says "forget your earlier list of domains, this is your new list of domains".
Ultimate Magic says "druids with [a specific list of domains] now add [some more stuff] to that list".
Either order of application, you don't get wolf domain. If you apply APG first, then your list of options is no longer the list that UM would add to. If you apply UM first, then APG just resets the expanded list to the list for shamans in the APG.
Wouldn't the Ultimate Magic rule be the more specific rule (not to mention being the most chronologically recent) as it dives deeper than the general character class and refers to the more specific Nature Bond class ability? The Wolf domain is not on the Wolf Shaman domain list, but it is also not on the Druid domain list. Ultimate Magic expands the Nature Bond class ability, which the Druid core class and Wolf Shaman Druid archetype share, to include animal and terrain domains.
When Ultimate Magic rules that "A druid with the nature's bond ability can choose an animal domain or terrain domain", are the Shaman archetypes not Druid's that possess the Nature Bond class ability?
The Advanced Player's Guide basically says "forget your earlier list of domains, this is your new list of domains".
Ultimate Magic says "druids with [a specific list of domains] now add [some more stuff] to that list".
Either order of application, you don't get wolf domain. If you apply APG first, then your list of options is no longer the list that UM would add to. If you apply UM first, then APG just resets the expanded list to the list for shamans in the APG.
I see your point and, without an official ruling, am forced to agree. Thank you.
Ultimate Magic says "druids with [a specific list of domains] now add [some more stuff] to that list".
Does it say that? The quote above references "new domains for druids whose focus is more specific than the Animal, Plant, Weather, or elemental domains. A druid with the nature's bond ability can choose an animal domain or terrain domain."
A Wolf Shaman is a druid whose focus is more specific than the Animal, Plant, Weather, or elemental domains. A Wolf Shaman is a druid with the nature's bond ability. Wolf Shamans can take the Animal domain. Wolf Domain is a (variant) Animal domain.
Ultimate Magic says "druids with [a specific list of domains] now add [some more stuff] to that list".Does it say that? The quote above references "new domains for druids whose focus is more specific than the Animal, Plant, Weather, or elemental domains. A druid with the nature's bond ability can choose an animal domain or terrain domain."
A Wolf Shaman is a druid whose focus is more specific than the Animal, Plant, Weather, or elemental domains. A Wolf Shaman is a druid with the nature's bond ability. Wolf Shamans can take the Animal domain. Wolf Domain is a (variant) Animal domain.
Animal and Terrain Domains
Presented in the section below are new rules for animal and terrain domains
this to me means that yes they can, because wolf is an animal domain.
Thank you both for your replies. You have given me more to consider.