What class do you suggest for a "fantasy knight" and why?


Advice


Im building a knight in my spare time for fun. Id like to avoid being dedicated to a god and focusing on mounted combat if possible. Mounted combat would be a bonus if it were possible but id rather not just be like a cavalier for example. I would like to build the straight up fantasy knight, the save the princess/prince, kill the monster, help the people, serve the king kind of knight. Magic would be a bonus but its not always a possibility. What kind of knights would you guys build? What suggestions do you have?

Liberty's Edge

Shining Knight Paladin or Divine Commander Warpriest, take your pick.

Shining Knight is sturdier and easier to play, and has the dashing charisma a classic knight may have.

Divine Commander is more grizzled in nature, packs better spells and a tough-as-hell mount from level 6 onwards.

Shining knight definitely seems to fit the concept you have, though. Smite Evil certainly fits the theme of 'kill the monster, save the princess'. They don't get the mount at level 1 like the Warpriest does (instead, grabbing it at 5), but it's all good.

Mounted Combat -> Ride-by Attack -> Spirited Charge feat chain is probably not worth it unless you're always outside. I'd generally keep a lance for when you're on your horse, but otherwise build for general Str-based two-handing good stuff, and grab Power Attack first.

EDIT: Ooops, misread that you wanted to avoid deific duty. I'll figure things out again in a moment.


If you don't want cavalier and you don't want paladin but do want mounted combat, you may want a fighter with either the dragoon (from UC) or roughrider (from APG) ATs. However, neither of these gain a mount as a class feature so you would need to buy one. Alternatively, you could just make a straight fighter with a lance, sword, shield, and heavy armor, and then buy a heavy horse and take a few mounted combat feats.


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What's wrong with the Cavalier? It's tailor-made to be the Knight class. Only the Paladin comes as close.

And saving people, killing monsters, and being loyal to the Crown is something that any character class can do.


Play a Gnome or Halfling. Take 3 levels in Eldritch Guardian Fighter. Get a Mauler Familiar, a flying animal, like a Bat. Ride it for your mount (not your Mount, sadly). Take levels in Rogue with the Scout Archetype so you score Sneak Attack Damage whenever you move more than 10'. Take some levels in Monk, and take Panther Style Feats, which gives you bonus attacks whenever you provoke Attacks of Opportunity by moving out of Threatened Squares. Take Broken Wing Gambit, and you will get Attacks of Opportunity whenever you are attacked. Work Monkey Lunge somewhere in there.

A level 3 Mauler Familiar grows to size Medium in combat, so you will be able to ride it as a size Small Gnome of Halfling, a knight with a flying mount.

A level 2 Eldritch Gaurdian's Familiar gets all the Combat Feats that its Master has, including Panther Claw and Broken Wing Gambit. Between the 2 of you, you will get lots of attacks.

All-in-all, a little like Sir Didymus in Labyrinth, staring down the Goblin Army, brightly informing his mount that "We have them surrounded," and assuring the Goblins that if they "lay down your weapons, I will assure you are decently treated!" And after a short laugh, they will realize they should have taken him up on that...


If you don’t want cavalier or paladin for a knight a fighter is probably the only real choice. But although you can make a knight out of a fighter it will probably harder to do, and be less effective than either of those classes. About the only other class that would be suitable would be the Samurai which is a variant of the cavalier. The biggest problem with the fighter as a knight is the skills. A knight should have decent social skill and the fighter does not get many skills and none of the social skills are class skills so that handicaps him even further.

Paladins are not required to serve a particular god. Many paladins do serve a particular god and that is a completely valid concept, but it is not the only concept. Paladins also can choose weapon for their divine bond instead of a mount so they are not tied to mounted combat. Nothing in the rules prevents you from playing a secular paladin, although your GM may decide to house rule that paladins require a deity. I believe PFS does require paladins to have a deity but you did not specify that was for PFS.


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Disclaimer: I am of the belief that class flavor is nothing more than some text to help you visualize what the mechanics can do and can easily be revised as the player sees fit.

A ranger could be what you're looking for. Plenty of skills, comes with a mount, and feat support for a variety of combat styles. The woodsy flavor can easily be rewritten to be someone who has been trained well to serve his Lord (or whoever). There are plenty of archetypes that trade away different combinations of the vanilla class if you don't like them or if it doesn't fit your idea for the character.

I agree with Athaleon, saving people, killing monsters, and having a quest giver is adventuring 101. Any class/character is doing that at any given time, so dont sweat that part. Personally, I'd look at what you want to be able to do well mechanically, find a class that does that, and flavor it to your liking.

EDIT: Rangers get spells too!


ViConstantine wrote:
Im building a knight in my spare time for fun. Id like to avoid being dedicated to a god and focusing on mounted combat if possible. Mounted combat would be a bonus if it were possible but id rather not just be like a cavalier for example. I would like to build the straight up fantasy knight, the save the princess/prince, kill the monster, help the people, serve the king kind of knight. Magic would be a bonus but its not always a possibility. What kind of knights would you guys build? What suggestions do you have?

If you are looking for classes that actually explicitly rely on mounts, then the others make good suggestions in relation to Paladins (who can get a Mount as a Divine Bond), Cavaliers/Samurais (scaling mount, the latter being more Eastern-flavored), some Druids (Horse animal companion), and Sohei Monk (though it doesn't actually get a proper mount as a class feature, it does have extremely powerful class features for mounted combat, and it gives a monastic feel instead of a monarchic one).

Of course, you could honestly build a mounted character with any sort of class as long as you take the Nature Soul and Animal Ally feats for a scaling Horse mount. Granted, you can't have a mount until 4th level, it requires 2 or 3 feets, and it'll be weak starting out (until you get the Boon Companion feat), classes with bonus feats can reduce the impact of such requirements.


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Gummy Bear wrote:

Disclaimer: I am of the belief that class flavor is nothing more than some text to help you visualize what the mechanics can do and can easily be revised as the player sees fit.

A ranger could be what you're looking for. Plenty of skills, comes with a mount, and feat support for a variety of combat styles. The woodsy flavor can easily be rewritten to be someone who has been trained well to serve his Lord (or whoever). There are plenty of archetypes that trade away different combinations of the vanilla class if you don't like them or if it doesn't fit your idea for the character.

I agree with Athaleon, saving people, killing monsters, and having a quest giver is adventuring 101. Any class/character is doing that at any given time, so dont sweat that part. Personally, I'd look at what you want to be able to do well mechanically, find a class that does that, and flavor it to your liking.

EDIT: Rangers get spells too!

This. And this is what I want to do someday, a mother friggin badass fantasy knight.


If you don't want to take care of your horse, then you could always go with a caster for your secondary class. At least dipping 1 level in for several caster classes you can take the Mount spell which grants you a horse for 2 hours.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mount

Every additional level will allow you to make the horse last longer. So a level 8 magus can have his horse for 16 hours. Alternatively the same magus at level 4 can get a communal mount spell, and summon multiple horses for his squad.

If you wait until level 7, you can take Phantom Steed which is a horse that gets more powerful when the caster gets more levels (horse can fly at CL14). Although this version the horse does not gain the ability to attack your targets, its still appears awesome.
The communal version you can snag at CL10.
Summoners appear to get this version earlier, so a lvl 4 summoner can take the normal version, and a lvl 7 summoner can take the communal version.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/phantom-steed


Change the flavor of the Sacred Huntsmaster and it is my favorite mounted class. Shared free teamwork feats with your mount is great. Mounted combat is already so strong that trading away judgements doesnt really hurt you. you do need to burn a feat or dip a level for lances and heavy armor but you can do sword and board in a breastplate just fine as a purebred inquisitor. In fact, have your knightly order inspired by Ragathiel and there is a very typical knightly feel and free bastard sword proficinecy.


Well now I'm considering the Paladin. I still don't like the restriction on alignment but At least the alignment fits the goody goody fairy tail knight. Though the Paladin has feat problems bad. I feel very inclined to go toward fighter simply for feats. The cavalier though he fits disinterested me because he is much less stunning on foot as he is on horse. Also I think team work feats are stupid and a waisted bonus feat as they have never been useful for my party or myself in the past.


ViConstantine wrote:
I feel very inclined to go toward fighter simply for feats.

You could go with Magus as a secondary or primary to combine with fighter feats.

"Starting at 10th level, a magus counts 1/2 his total magus level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack."


ViConstantine wrote:
id rather not just be like a cavalier for example. I would like to build the straight up fantasy knight, the save the princess/prince, kill the monster, help the people, serve the king kind of knight. Magic would be a bonus but its not always a possibility. What kind of knights would you guys build? What suggestions do you have?

I am confused. You are describing a Cavalier, but you specifically say you don't want to play a Cavalier.

Are you saying you'd like to be able to have a mount but not rely on one? Because, if so, then the answer to your question is:

Samurai.

A Cavalier that's just as powerful on foot. You can select the Cavalier Order that serves a Sovereign. With GM permission, you can dump the Eastern weapons for standard ones. If your GM won't let you trade the weapons, then just refluf them (Katana as a fancy elven blade, for example).

Samurai is my "go to" class for a standard sword-and-board fantasy knight sans spells/deities.

Cavalier is the same when I want to be able to joust.


Fox Soul wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:
I feel very inclined to go toward fighter simply for feats.

You could go with Magus as a secondary or primary to combine with fighter feats.

"Starting at 10th level, a magus counts 1/2 his total magus level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack."

I mean, yea I suppose I could but...why magus? I mean magic is a neat bonus but its not something i see a point to dip for. IF its party of the class then neat but otherwise im not really interested.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Some options for characters that gain a mount that advances with character level:

Barbarian (mounted fury archetype).

Bloodrager (bloodrider archetype).

Brawler (wild child archetype), with either a dip in another martial class or spending feats to pick up proficiency with heavier armor/better weapons.

Cavalier. This is the stereotypical "fantasy knight," after all.

Cleric* with the Animal domain and a horse companion at 4th+ level.

Druid with a horse companion.

Hunter with a horse companion.

Inquisitor* (sacred huntsmaster archetype).

Occultist with the Conjuration implement school and the Mind Steed focus power.

Oracle with the Nature mystery and Bonded Mount revelation.

Paladin* with a Divine Bonded mount.

Ranger with a horse companion.

Summoner with an eidolon that has the Mount evolution.

Warpriest* (divine commander archetype).

Vigilante (mounted fury archetype).

*- Although you said you didn't want to be dedicated to a god.


Zelgadas Greyward wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:
id rather not just be like a cavalier for example. I would like to build the straight up fantasy knight, the save the princess/prince, kill the monster, help the people, serve the king kind of knight. Magic would be a bonus but its not always a possibility. What kind of knights would you guys build? What suggestions do you have?

I am confused. You are describing a Cavalier, but you specifically say you don't want to play a Cavalier.

Are you saying you'd like to be able to have a mount but not rely on one? Because, if so, then the answer to your question is:

Samurai.

A Cavalier that's just as powerful on foot. You can select the Cavalier Order that serves a Sovereign. With GM permission, you can dump the Eastern weapons for standard ones. If your GM won't let you trade the weapons, then just refluf them (Katana as a fancy elven blade, for example).

Samurai is my "go to" class for a standard sword-and-board fantasy knight sans spells/deities.

Cavalier is the same when I want to be able to joust.

I suppose yea more or less. Also like I stated. I hate team work feats and don't want to rely on a mount. The samurai I've already considered but his eastern theme is the opposite of what I want. I know the gms i play with, if i said i wanted to trade his weapons they would tell me to just take a different class instead. Refluffing doesn't work either as it's their worlds and a katana is still a katana in all of them.


Dragonchess Player wrote:

Some options for characters that gain a mount that advances with character level:

Barbarian (mounted fury archetype).

Bloodrager (bloodrider archetype).

Brawler (wild child archetype), with either a dip in another martial class or spending feats to pick up proficiency with heavier armor/better weapons.

Cavalier. This is the stereotypical "fantasy knight," after all.

Cleric* with the Animal domain and a horse companion at 4th+ level.

Druid with a horse companion.

Hunter with a horse companion.

Inquisitor* (sacred huntsmaster archetype).

Occultist with the Conjuration implement school and the Mind Steed focus power.

Oracle with the Nature mystery and Bonded Mount revelation.

Paladin* with a Divine Bonded mount.

Ranger with a horse companion.

Summoner with an eidolon that has the Mount evolution.

Warpriest* (divine commander archetype).

Vigilante (mounted fury archetype).

*- Although you said you didn't want to be dedicated to a god.

These are helpful though I feel like somewhere in here I have the impression that I needed a strong mount. I really don't care if my class gives me a mount or not I just want to not be a joke on or off the mount. Mounted combat capability would like magic, just be a neat little bonus.


If I really wanted to play a mounted knight type character, I would probably play a Ghost Rider Cavalier so I don't have to worry about being thwarted by stairs. I mean, my reason for not playing this character more often is fear of the horse or horse-analogue getting in the way, so "it's not technically a ghost"-ghost-horse is really appealing to me.


Nature Soul, Animal Ally, and Boon Companion feats are all you need, and you have a character-level-scaling mount, without having to dedicate class features to it.

You can even have your mount be more exotic than the typical horse, such as a lion/tiger, or a wolf, both of which are flavorful and cool for those non-typical mounted fighters.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Nature Soul, Animal Ally, and Boon Companion feats are all you need, and you have a character-level-scaling mount, without having to dedicate class features to it.

You can even have your mount be more exotic than the typical horse, such as a lion/tiger, or a wolf, both of which are flavorful and cool for those non-typical mounted fighters.

That sounds interesting for sure, it would give me a lot to work with though i feel like I should have specified more clearly in my question what i need. That way no one is giving an answer they really worked on that I dont feel I can use. I hate to waste someones time. I guess my goals are: Heavy armor and strong medieval flavored weapons > combat effectiveness > charisma > ability to be useful on a mount > magic > everything else.


Literally any class with at least medium armor proficiency works. I'd say either Yojimbo Samurai (you are still proficient in longswords and lances, nothing requires you to buy a katana) or Steelblooded Bloodrager with a bloodline like Destined or Celestial.

EDIT: I suppose heavy armor proficiency is needed with the above post (though mithral heavy armor and a feat can work together to solve this somewhat).


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
ViConstantine wrote:
These are helpful though I feel like somewhere in here I have the impression that I needed a strong mount. I really don't care if my class gives me a mount or not I just want to not be a joke on or off the mount. Mounted combat capability would like magic, just be a neat little bonus.

Without a mount that advances with the character, any "mounted combat capability" rapidly becomes "a joke" as the game moves past 5th-7th level. When your mount dies in one round (or even one hit), what's the point of even attempting to fight while mounted?


Dragonchess Player wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:
These are helpful though I feel like somewhere in here I have the impression that I needed a strong mount. I really don't care if my class gives me a mount or not I just want to not be a joke on or off the mount. Mounted combat capability would like magic, just be a neat little bonus.
Without a mount that advances with the character, any "mounted combat capability" rapidly becomes "a joke" as the game moves past 5th-7th level. When your mount dies in one round (or even one hit), what's the point of even attempting to fight while mounted?

Well if thats the case, f@%! mounts, I never cared about them much to begin with. Maybe ill just go paladin and wing it? I was hoping for something a little more interesting than a paladin or a fighter or an archetype of one of them that worked with the flavor well. The cavalier would have been perfect but hey, mounts, that thing i drastically dont care about.


Gray Paladin allows you to choose LN or NG for alignments; might want to look into that.

The thing about mounted combat, you can't be amazing at it AND unmounted combat at the same time. You can only be okay to somewhat good at both, or worse, bad at both if feat starved. The game wasn't designed so that you could do everything. Keep that in mind.


Go with straight magus. Magic knight is no less a knight.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Gray Paladin allows you to choose LN or NG for alignments; might want to look into that.

The thing about mounted combat, you can't be amazing at it AND unmounted combat at the same time. You can only be okay to somewhat good at both, or worse, bad at both if feat starved. The game wasn't designed so that you could do everything. Keep that in mind.

How is "good at mounted combat" and "good at unmounted combat" everything? I typically never even consider mounted combat as I feel like taking care of a mount is a waste of time, energy, gold and feats. Ill take a gander at the Gray Paladin but im not sure I follow how wanting to work with both makes me stretched too far in any regard.

Sovereign Court

Funny enough the strongest martial build in PF uses mounted combat.


I'm currently playing a Steelblooded Bloodrager with the Destined bloodline, sword and board + the shielded mage feat. He's probably my favorite character I've played so far.


Eltacolibre wrote:
Funny enough the strongest martial build in PF uses mounted combat.

I cant remotely believe that. All the builds ive ever seen that do the craziest damage in this game have never been on a horse or on any mount for that matter. The Barbarian, standard fighter, archer paladin, etc. Ive never seen a mounted martial do insane amounts of damage.


Oathbound Paladin with his divine bond on a mount or (if you don't want an eventual celestial mount) keep the divine bond fixed on your weapon and treat it like a Golarian version of excalibur.

Really, Paladin covers most of the non-cavalier fantasy knight trope you might be looking for in Pathfinder.

Sovereign Court

it's a cheesy barbarian build AM barbarian with a synthesist summoner flying mount (using leadership) . (Which most of the time, most dm wouldn't let you do that anyway)


Neurophage wrote:
Go with straight magus. Magic knight is no less a knight.

My favorite arcane knight is actually the Chelish Diva Bard. Armor upgrades faster than Magus and he has a more socially oriented set of skills.


Look at the Marshall Cavalier. They don't get a mount, and they feel even more like leaders of men (such as knights were often seen as).


ViConstantine wrote:
Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Gray Paladin allows you to choose LN or NG for alignments; might want to look into that.

The thing about mounted combat, you can't be amazing at it AND unmounted combat at the same time. You can only be okay to somewhat good at both, or worse, bad at both if feat starved. The game wasn't designed so that you could do everything. Keep that in mind.

How is "good at mounted combat" and "good at unmounted combat" everything? I typically never even consider mounted combat as I feel like taking care of a mount is a waste of time, energy, gold and feats. Ill take a gander at the Gray Paladin but im not sure I follow how wanting to work with both makes me stretched too far in any regard.

They're two completely different things. It'd be like expecting to have the full power of a divine caster and arcane caster at the same time. I fail to see how you don't understand this.

Also if you believe that about mounted combat, then you haven't actually used mounted combat before or used it properly, or you'd know how useful it is. My brother is playing in a game, Strange Aeons I believe, where he is a Halfling Primal Companion Hunter using a freaking pig as a mount, and he is easily the strongest player in the game. Mounts are extremely powerful when they level up with you because of being an animal companion. Hell, animal companions are often broken, what with Evolved Companion, Celestial Servant, being an Aasimar and Oracle that grants you an animal companion to get it above your level, being a Sylvan Sorcerer with a Robe of Arcane Heritage, and so on.

Hell, in my game, my wolf mount has saved the entire gestalt party singlehandedly several times, despite being a regular animal companion in a gestalt world.


Scythia wrote:
Look at the Marshall Cavalier. They don't get a mount, and they feel even more like leaders of men (such as knights were often seen as).

So I looked it up, either the marshall cavalier doesnt exist or you know something I dont.


Scythia wrote:
Look at the Marshall Cavalier. They don't get a mount, and they feel even more like leaders of men (such as knights were often seen as).

I believe you might be talking about a cavalir taking the marshall mythic path? But this seems a little irreverent if a game doesnt go mythic.


The kinetic knight archetype for the kineticist looks like a fun version of a fantasy knight. I'd like to give it a try some time. No mount, but then you don't necessarily need one when you can fly at-will.

For reasons I do not understand, PF added an armor check penalty to ride. If I was making a heavy armoured mounted combatant I'd really have to go with some version of cavalier, which loses that penalty. The ACG Order of the Beast adds a dash of magic to the cavalier. (This is a separate idea to the kinetic knight, not an extension of it).


ViConstantine wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Look at the Marshall Cavalier. They don't get a mount, and they feel even more like leaders of men (such as knights were often seen as).
So I looked it up, either the marshall cavalier doesnt exist or you know something I dont.

I may be mis-remembering the name, but it's from the Heroes of the Streets player companion.

Just looked it up, it's Constable. Sorry.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What you want is literally a Cavalier. Specifically, a Gendarme Cavalier. Order is up to you, but I'd probably go with Order of the Flame for more damage.

Gendarme trades away the Tactician abilities and bonus teamwork feats for a specific list of Mounted Combat-centric bonus feats.

For a 20 pt build at level 5 this is what I would do.

Str 18 (Human +2, +1 at level 4)
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

Feats
1. Mounted Combat
1 Human. Persuasive
1 B. Power Attack
3. Ride by Attack
5. Peerless Courtier (Sense Motive)
5 B. Spirited Charge

Get some Fullplate, a Shield, Longsword, and Lance and you're good to go.

Skills will be maxed out Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Handle Animal, Ride, and through Pearless Courtier Sense Motive.

After this you can take whatever you like as the core build is finished. The only thing you need to be solid in melee unmounted is a good Str and Power Attack. Good at Mounted Combat you need a Mount as the class feature and the feats Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack, and Spirited Charge. Easy peasy.


I forgot about the armor check penalty on Ride until I was going over characters for a Roll20 campaign, and saw one of my players has a -13 to ride on his cavalier. The system doesn't know he had that ability, so it just counted his tower shield and armor to get the number.


Okay, how about this?

Make a Druidzilla character that favors like Triceratops, Megaraptor, Allosaurus, Warcat, or something.

Take the Leadership Feat, and get a Cavalier (or something) Cohort.

Now, instead of playing a Knight with an Animal Companion, you're playing an Animal with a Human Companion!

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