Gunslinger (Siege Gunner) 1 / Magus (Eldritch Archer) X - Iron Gods Character


Advice

Dark Archive

I am going to start the Iron Gods campaign in the next week or so. I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on whether this character would be viable.

This is a Harry Dresden/Waxillium Ladrian/Star Lord ranged gish mash-up . I would like him to be an intelligent magic gunslinger with a gruff factual irish/southern demeanour. Ideally he will be throwing out elemental shots through his gun. I thought this would be pretty fun given the theme of Iron Gods but I want to make sure I'm not going to be ineffective against constructs. Let me know if you have any advice, but try to avoid Iron Gods spoilers.

The alternative to running a ranged character is likely running a barbarian wielding a large sized weapon with an effortless lace.

Race
1 - Human

Racial Trait
1 - Fey Magic (Underground/Dungeons)
2 - Fey Thoughts (Diplomacy, Knowledge Religion)
3 - Lowlight Vision

Stats (at Level 1)
STR - 13
DEX - 16
CON - 14
INT - 18 (16 + 2 Racial)
WIS - 7
CHA - 7

Stats (at Level 11)
STR - 13
DEX - 20 (16 + 4 Belt)
CON - 14
INT - 24 (16 + 2 Racial + 2 Level + 4 Headband)
WIS - 7
CHA - 7

Traits
1 - Magical Knack (Magus) +2 CL to make dip
2 - Student of Philosophy (Bluff/Dip off INT)

Build Order
1 - Gunslinger (Siege Gunner)
2 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
3 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
4 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
5 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
6 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
7 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
8 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
9 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
10 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)
11 - Magus (Eldritch Archer)

Feats/Arcana
1, Feat - Point-Blank, Precise Shot
1C, Feat - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms)
1C, Feat - Gun Smithing
3, Feat - Rapid Reload
4, Arcana - Spell blending (Abundant Ammunition)
5, Feat - Deadly Aim
6C, Feat - Arcane Strike
7, Feat - Rapid Shot
7, Arcana - Spell Scars
9C, Feat - Clustered Shot
9, Feat - ??Metamagic Feat??
10, Arcana - Reach Spellstrike
11, Feat - Improved Critical (Pistol)

Plan is to be a face (Dip/Bluff off INT from trait), and INT based skill roller out of combat. We are in campaign mode, so I am hoping my GM will give me Jolt as a Cantrip option for Spell Combat/Ranged Spell Strike. I will also try to convince him to let me buy an Effortless Lace and apply it to a musket so I can stack the musket master archetype for Gunslinger to increase damage, range, and most importantly get reload down to a free action (otherwise I can't use a musket to any effect with Spell Combat/Ranged Spell Strike). Are there any other ways to get a musket to a free action reload other than 3 levels of musket master? If not, I'll have to stick with a Pistol as my bonded weapon.

Possible Alternate Build Options:

1 - Stat spread change to get my DEX to start at 18. Not sure if it is worth it given that I'll be hitting against touch ac with everything.
Stats (at Level 1)
STR - 11
DEX - 18
CON - 10
INT - 18 (16 + 2 Racial)
WIS - 7
CHA - 7

If my GM will let me go musket master, then I can pick a better race like an Android for a better stat array as the class will net me Rapid Reload (Musket) for free.

2 - A level 4 dip into Spellslinger to net me the 3X spell critical, and ability cast through my gun at an increased level. It also nets me Abundant Ammunition and Fabricate Bullets as 1st level spells so I don't have to put so much WBL into making ammunition (especially adamantine bullets to go through constructs). My CL won't be behind thanks to Magical Knack, but my BAB will lag (iterative still come online as expected thanks to the +1 BAB from gunslinger).

3 - Weapon damage worries me. Do you think Deadly Aim, Arcane Strike, and enchanting my weapon to a +3 will help me be effective against constructs. At level 9 I can grab Clustered Shots, before that I have to craft adamantine bullets to go through hardness which may be pricey unless I get a reliable way to have abundant ammunition. Is there also a downside to focusing into one kind of weapon like my arcane bond or a musket (i.e., I won't be able to use tech I find)? Does it make sense to add the Breaking or Bane (Constructs) enchantment to my gun? Is there a way to go through hardness otherwise?

4 - Restack some of the points from STR/CON into CHA and take my first level as Swashbuckler (Musketeer), which nets me Weapon Finesse (albeit less grit since it will be CHA based). That could open up a trait to grab a trait to reduce the cost of metamagic on snowball.


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Instead of Musket Master I think you'd be better off with a technological firearm considering you're going to play Iron Gods


I've been working with similar builds recently (both with Magus and Eldritch Knight; there's a lot to love about each). When I first started experimenting with them I thought they were a novelty, but they seem to be surprisingly effective. Not top-notch optimization stuff by any stretch of the imagination, but they are generally functional and viable builds.

Don't bother with the Abundant Ammunition or Fabricate Bullets spells. These spells can create bullets, but not black powder. Black powder represents the majority of the total cost of a firearm shot so the actual savings of these spells for firearm users are tiny. They're passable even if you get the spells naturally, and definitely not worth Spell Blending.

Musket Master is incompatible with Siege Gunner, so you'll lose out on the nice int-to-grit bonus if you do this. Given that you're in Iron Gods, if you're going to take any archetype that's incompatible with Siege Gunner on a build like this I'd go with Techslinger. Pretty much the same response to the Musketeer Swashbuckler; if you're going to give up on int-to-grit from your firearm class, go with the Techslinger.

Spellslinger is a bit painful BAB-wise (although if you can swing fractional progression alternate rules it's not as bad). It also tends to really eat through its daily spell loadout a bit too quickly, and that's only made worse given that you're running Magus instead of Wizard. However, this is definitely doable. I would recommend not taking any levels in Gunslinger at all if you want to use Spellslinger. This will help maximize your magus spellcasting progression. It does mean you'll need to pick up one additional feat (Amateur Gunslinger for Quick Clear) but I don't think you want to mix all three of these classes on one build. Either go Gunslinger/Magus, Magus/Spellslinger, or Gunslinger/Spellslinger (into Eldritch Knight). Don't spread yourself too thin by trying to do all three.

Weapon damage is definitely a problem - actually, it's the problem - with this kind of build. One extreme solution is to take 5 levels of Gunslinger, which gets you Gun Training at the cost of very delayed spellcasting. This greatly delays when your build blooms (14th level to get reach spellstrike) but makes you generally more consistent along the way. Going with Spellslinger can definitely help; the combination of Mage Bullets and Arcane Pool can get you some utterly ludicrous enhancement bonuses on your firearm, and will more than make up for the lost point of BAB. A somewhat similar build that I've found awkwardly delightful is the Mysterious Stranger/Sorcerer; it gets 9-level charisma based spellcasting and cha-to-damage with firearms. It's pretty gimped if it runs out of grit and struggles with misfires until it gets a reliable weapon, but "cha-to-damage-sorcerer" is a pretty attractive sales pitch.


The Iron Gods adventure path meshes well with high-intelligence characters, so that is in your character's favor.

I don't think that Gunslinger fits the Harry Dresden/Star Lord mash-up you want (not familiar with Waxillium Ladrian). Pathfinder's black powder firearms are finicky toys that require a lot of special abilities to work, but I think your character would want a reliable weapon that he does not need to think about. Also, losing a level of spellcasting, even on a 6-spell-level caster like a magus, is a serious disadvantage. The gunslinger's powers don't fix the glitches with technological weapons (the Techslinger archetype does, but loses the ability to fix misfires with gunpowder firearms), so that single gunslinger level could become useless if your character switches to a technological firearm.

As for your individual options.

1 - Stat spread change: Dexterity would be a much appreciated defense.

2 - Spellslinger: The spellslinger archetype for wizard is terrible.

3 - Weapon damage: When a magus needs damage, spellstrike comes to the rescue. That is all you need.

4 - Swashbuckler (Musketeer): This class sounds more in theme than Gunslinger, but I still prefer pure Magus.

My Iron Gods campaign has magus, skald, fighter/investigator, and gunslinger/rogue PCs and a gun-toting bloodrager NPC. The gunslinger/rogue is really a gadgeteer and focuses on debuffs through the Targeting deed and the special abilities of a technological weapon called an autograpnel. The bloodrager has no way of fixing a misfired gun quickly, so she carries two spare firearms. At 11th level, the skald took Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Heavy Weaponry) to use a technological weapon called a plasmathrower. The magus is content in melee with spellstrike through his rapier, but he uses Weaponwand to have a ranged spell available while still wielding the rapier. The fighter/investigator has expressed interest in technological grenades, but the rest of the party vetos the idea because he is reckless.


Mathmuse wrote:
2 - Spellslinger: The spellslinger archetype for wizard is terrible.

For a conventional caster build it's terrible, and even for a dedicated blaster it's a niche pick, but it really shines for gish builds since Mage Bullets is an amazing ability.

Dark Archive

I've been playing around a bit and I realized I could build a more charisma based build with mysterious stranger or via another intelligence based 3PP archetype (Mechanist).

If I go:
1 - Gunslinger (Mechanist/Pistelero OR Mysterious Stranger)
2 - Paladin (Holy Gun/Divine Hunter)
3 - Paladin (Holy Gun/Divine Hunter)
4 - Magus (Eldritch Archer or Eldritch Archer/Hexcrafter)

Then I can get my saves to a great place by focusing on DEX/INT/CHA which allows me to dump STR (replace cloak of resistance with muleback cords) and WIS (Will save covered by CHA).

This allows a whole host of improvements:
- Select better traits (e.g., roving to increase range increments on guns)
- Ways to get CHA to damage (Holygun/Mysterious Stranger), 1D6 to damage (Pistelero), or a scaling static bonus off Knowledge Engineering Ranks (Mechanist).
- Divine Hunter gives Precise Shot so I don't have to use a human to accelerate my feat chains. In particular I can use a halfing which nets me a lot of benefits including later getting the Risky Striker feat to increase my damage even more.
- I can get cluster shots at level 7 if I have at least 3 Full BAB levels before level 7 and only one 3/4 BAB class (i.e., magus).

Note: You need permission from the GM to combine Holy Gun/Divine Hunter (should be fine for only 2 levels). I have also asked for access to the revolver as my main gun/bonded weapon as a magus. If you don't get to use a revolver you'll need to push Rapid Reload much quicker.

Example Build:

Gunslinger (Mechanist, Pistelero) 1 - Paladin (Holy Gun, Divine Hunter) 2 - Magus (Eldritch Archer, Hexcrafter)

Race
1 - Halfling

Alternate Racial Traits:
1 - Fleet of Foot (30 ft Base Speed)
2 - Shadow Hunter

Traits
1 - Magical Knack (Magus - +2 Caster Level to make up or dips)
2 - Roving Range (+5ft range on all ranged increments, important for guns)

Stats (Level 1)
STR - 6 (8 - 2 race) - (use muleback cords to resolve carry capacity)
DEX - 18 (15 + 2 race)
CON - 11
INT - 16
WIS - 7
CHA - 16 (14+2 race)

Stats (Level 11)
STR - 6 (8 - 2 race)
DEX - 20 (15 + 2 race + 2 Belt)
CON - 14 (11 + 1 at level 4 + 2 Belt)
INT - 20 (16 + 4 Headband)
WIS - 8 (7 + 1 at level 8)
CHA - 20 (14+2 race + 4 Headband)

Feats
1C - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (One-Handed Firearms)
1 - Point-Blank Shot - +1/+1 if in 30 ft.
1C - Gunsmithing - Bullets/Powder/etc. at 10% cost
2C - Precise Shot
2C - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms)
2C - Amatuer Gunslinger (Changed into Extra Grit)
3 - Deadly Aim
5 - Rapid Shot
7 - Clustered Shots
8C - Rapid Reload (Revolver) - Free Action Reload
9 - Arcane Strike
11 - Risky Striker or Improved Critical

Arcana
7 - Flight
7 - Spell-Scars
9 - Prehensile Hair
9 - Ward


Please don't play holy gun. It's notoriously bad. Oh and if you take 3 levels of trench fighter you can get dex to damage. But you know that is 3 levels you're losing to your spells so you know


Red Griffyn wrote:

I've been playing around a bit and I realized I could build a more charisma based build with mysterious stranger or via another intelligence based 3PP archetype (Mechanist).

If I go:
1 - Gunslinger (Mechanist/Pistelero OR Mysterious Stranger)
2 - Paladin (Holy Gun/Divine Hunter)
3 - Paladin (Holy Gun/Divine Hunter)
4 - Magus (Eldritch Archer or Eldritch Archer/Hexcrafter)

If you're going to go this route, I would recommend using Sorcerer instead of Magus and going into Eldritch Knight. You lose out on spell combat and spellstrike, but your spellcasting ability is much stronger and you get to pump charisma into the stratosphere for massive benefits (cha to damage, grit, saves, and spellcasting). Don't mess around with charisma-based archetypes or class features if you plan on going Magus.

As Dox mentions, don't use Holy Gun. It is really bad. Trench Fighter is a good option if it's allowed at your table, although keep in mind that it does not get firearm proficiency or deeds (specifically quick clear) so you'll need to buy those back with feats or dip gunslinger anyways.

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