Bonus spells for 46+ in a casting stat


Rules Questions


How do bonus spells per day progress if one's casting stat is 46 or higher?
In 3.5 the table had a line at the end that said "ect". This line is missing from the CRB version.

This leaves us with three options:
1.) They receive no bonus spells at all. They have no entry on the chart therefore no bonus spells. This could be a very strict, if illogical, read as written.
2.) They receive the same number of bonus spells per day as 44-45 in a casting stat. This seems like it could be logical but nothing in the text supports it. (That I have found)
3.) Bonus spells per day continue to progress in the same pattern. This is how it was in 3.5 and also seems logical, but again nothing in the text supports this. (That I have found)


i would rule 3 as it is fairly strait forward that it would continue to progress just like any other scaling class feature that doesn't cap off at the x'th level


Is your GM actually giving you a hard time about it being (3), or are you asking for PFS (where I really doubt you could get a stat that high!) or what?

If the former, ask them what the modifier is for a 46+ stat. Does it suddenly fall to zero? Is it frozen at +17? Or does it climb at the same rate as before?


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

Is your GM actually giving you a hard time about it being (3), or are you asking for PFS (where I really doubt you could get a stat that high!) or what?

If the former, ask them what the modifier is for a 46+ stat. Does it suddenly fall to zero? Is it frozen at +17? Or does it climb at the same rate as before?

the modifier would still progress as the calculations for modifiers are stat-10/2 so a creature with a 210 in a stat would have a +100 modifier


Lady-J wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

Is your GM actually giving you a hard time about it being (3), or are you asking for PFS (where I really doubt you could get a stat that high!) or what?

If the former, ask them what the modifier is for a 46+ stat. Does it suddenly fall to zero? Is it frozen at +17? Or does it climb at the same rate as before?

the modifier would still progress as the calculations for modifiers are stat-10/2 so a creature with a 210 in a stat would have a +100 modifier

While that is clearly the calculation being used, the rules never state it; they only provide the (finite) table.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

Is your GM actually giving you a hard time about it being (3), or are you asking for PFS (where I really doubt you could get a stat that high!) or what?

If the former, ask them what the modifier is for a 46+ stat. Does it suddenly fall to zero? Is it frozen at +17? Or does it climb at the same rate as before?

the modifier would still progress as the calculations for modifiers are stat-10/2 so a creature with a 210 in a stat would have a +100 modifier
While that is clearly the calculation being used, the rules never state it; they only provide the (finite) table.

well seeing as how its the case with many of the creatures out there with 48-54 in a stat i would think it would be the case


This is more as a thought experiment, but I think it can be done within the seeker bounds of PFS, if you really build for it and have a helpful party, and a DM who will put up with some shenanigans.

18 base
+2 racial = 20
+4 from levels = 24
+6 enhancement = 30
+5 inherent = 35
+6 profane (from gating in Nocticula and making a very Faustian deal) = 41
+8 alchemical from grand cognatogen = 49

Granted having a party member gate in Nocticula is a very bad idea, but is technically possible within the rules. Convincing her to help you is also probably a very bad idea, but hey, this is a thought experiment.


MichaelCullen wrote:

This is more as a thought experiment, but I think it can be done within the seeker bounds of PFS, if you really build for it and have a helpful party, and a DM who will put up with some shenanigans.

18 base
+2 racial = 20
+4 from levels = 24
+6 enhancement = 30
+5 inherent = 35
+6 profane (from gating in Nocticula and making a very Faustian deal) = 41
+8 alchemical from grand cognatogen = 49

Granted having a party member gate in Nocticula is a very bad idea, but is technically possible within the rules. Convincing her to help you is also probably a very bad idea, but hey, this is a thought experiment.

I thought PFS only went up to 12th level? You're looking at 20th.


Not sure about bonus spells but the modifier should keep going up, see the many CR26+ creatures with stats and modifiers above 44 in a stat.


Well, the bonus spells and the modifier come out of the same table (as the formulas are never made explicit) so they should clearly be treated the same way. It would make no sense for one to keep climbing while the other froze or zeroed.

(Of course, we all know darn well that the writers of those high-CR critters didn't bother to consult the table to get the modifier, because they know the implicit formula, and it never occurred to them that it might behave any other way.)


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
I thought PFS only went up to 12th level? You're looking at 20th.

You can play sanctioned portions of AP in PFS mode. They even grant chronical sheets. It is possible to get a PFS character all the way up to level 20 if you plan well. I did not plan well. My highest PFS character is 19 and I have a 16, a 15 and two level 14s.

Grand Lodge

You mentioned bonus spells. Well, you get a bonus spell if your modifier is as high as that spell level. (Intelligence bonus +1? You get a bonus L1 spell.)

Similarly to BAB attacks, if you have a high enough bonus, you get another bonus spell at lower levels. Foolishly, they did not follow the same pattern. (They should have. The fewer algorithms to remember, the better!)

If your bonus is +5, you get +5/+1 (or bonus spells for level 1-5, and another bonus spell at level 1)

So bonus spells progress like this:
+1
+2
+3
+4
+5/+1
+6/+2
+7/+3
+8/+4
+9/+5/+1
+10*/+6/+2
Etc.

*at that point, you're out of spells. But you have probably created your own or used metamagic to boost the spells you know.

If you run off the table, I'm not sure there are rules to govern it. But most of the time you can just follow the pattern.

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