Imbicatus |
Never play an archer fighter. A core fighter is a better arecher in all aspects. The archer weapon training replacement doesn't count as weapon training, so no advanced weapon training, no weapon mastery feats without martial focus, and no armor training.
The abilities you get from the archetype can be replicated by feats.
Baf1804 |
Ok so all I would be losing is weapon mastery really. Which equates to a +2 on attack and damage with 1 type and a +1 On another type. And I would be losing armor training which I won't be using armor anyways because of flurry with the monk. Am I missing something else that I would want.
I agree that if I was playing straight fighter not to use the archer but I am only putting 9 levels into it. Maybe not that many. Still figuring it out.
Glorf Fei-Hung |
Never play an archer fighter. A core fighter is a better arecher in all aspects. The archer weapon training replacement doesn't count as weapon training, so no advanced weapon training, no weapon mastery feats without martial focus, and no armor training.
The abilities you get from the archetype can be replicated by feats.
And even if you did standard fighter with archer build, I'm not sure by the time you have a level 11 zen archer that you're going to be able to add enough Fighter based features to enhance the Zen Archer's build significantly. If you just want more feats to try and make the character more rounded I can see that, but you're loosing extra attacks and abilities that scale with the monk levels.
Baf1804 |
Imbicatus wrote:And even if you did standard fighter with archer build, I'm not sure by the time you have a level 11 zen archer that you're going to be able to add enough Fighter based features to enhance the Zen Archer's build significantly. If you just want more feats to try and make the character more rounded I can see that, but you're loosing extra attacks and abilities that scale with the monk levels.Never play an archer fighter. A core fighter is a better arecher in all aspects. The archer weapon training replacement doesn't count as weapon training, so no advanced weapon training, no weapon mastery feats without martial focus, and no armor training.
The abilities you get from the archetype can be replicated by feats.
I am playing the unchained monk so I will not be losing any attacks from flurry. I can see me losing a few abilities but no attacks. Correct.
Baf1804 |
Imbicatus wrote:And even if you did standard fighter with archer build, I'm not sure by the time you have a level 11 zen archer that you're going to be able to add enough Fighter based features to enhance the Zen Archer's build significantly. If you just want more feats to try and make the character more rounded I can see that, but you're loosing extra attacks and abilities that scale with the monk levels.Never play an archer fighter. A core fighter is a better arecher in all aspects. The archer weapon training replacement doesn't count as weapon training, so no advanced weapon training, no weapon mastery feats without martial focus, and no armor training.
The abilities you get from the archetype can be replicated by feats.
I am playing the unclaimed monk so I will not be losing any attacks from flurry. I can see me losing a few abilities but no attacks. Correct.
Claxon |
Yeah, Zen-Archer is not compatible with unchained monk.
Also, by gong Archer archetype fighter you give up weapon training. At 9 levels of fighter that's a +2 bonus with bows, but also another +2 from gloves of dueling. You also give up access to Advanced Weapon Training feats. Which by the way, can allow you to give you bow damage as though you were a warpriest. That means a 20th level fighter with Advanced Weapon Training can deal 2d8 damage with their bow, almost the same as the zen archer (2d10). Except the fighter doesn't need to spend ki points to do it. And actually has much better options much earlier on.
Zen Archer is really only good for a few levels to get some early abilities that take longer for other classes to get.
My advice is to play a zen-archer only till level 3 when you get the ability to use wisdom to attack rolls. Make a character with high strength, no dex, and high wisdom. If you get to skip past this level, even better. At next level you hop in full plate and basically just used zen archer as a really great dip class for feats.
Claxon |
Honestly, the zen-archer was only ever particularly good because it got a few feats early compared to other classes. It negated a lot of the problems archery players feared.
But it's actually pretty weak in the late game, compared to other classes.
Fighter, warpriest, and inquisitor all make exceptionally better archers in terms of damage. The zen-archer has some neat tricks, but overall isn't that impressive.
Imbicatus |
The problem is that most monks use stunning fist and quivering palm in melee, against things with high fortitude saves. That's compounded by having wis as a secondary stat and not haveing a great DC. Zen Archers tend to attack at range, and can target foes with poor fortitude saves. And being wis primary, they have higher than average DCs, so they are more likely to have success with them.