Purely by the numbers, Wizard/Cleric,
It's dull as heck, but with each class, the vast majority of each class is its spells. They lose the least of their power, and have the two strongest spell lists.
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Arcanists don't get 2nd level spells until 4th level, so you would be locked out of 9th level spells (best caster levels you could end up with is Shaman 16 / Arcanist 14 or Shaman 13 / Arcanist 17, either of which leaves you with 8th level spells in one class and 7th in the other.
If you want level 9 spells, you'll need Wizard or Witch on your Arcane side, and avoid the Oracle on the Divine side.
Of course, most characters don't get to 20th level anyway, so perhaps that will not be an issue...
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Good spell progression, good stats synergy:
<none>
Good spell progression, bad stats synergy:
- Wizard/...
- Cleric -> classic. Loses Channel Energy and School powers progressions; not a great loss
- Druid -> another classic. Never gets to Wild Shape and loses School powers progressions; not a great loss
- Shaman -> loses Hexes and School powers; might be harsh for hexes with DC
- Witch/... same as Wizard or worse in case of hexes with DC
Bad spell progression, good stats synergy:
- Sorcerer/...
- Oracle -> loses Bloodlines and Revelations progression; not a great loss if chosen wisely
Bad spell progression, bad stats synergy:
<everything else>
Arcanists get 2nd level spells at 4th level, hence that combination doesn't work. I'd stick to the classic Wizard/Cleric, or eventually Witch/Shaman with suitable hexes (Evil Eye + Cackle, Cauldron, Fetish, Secret), if you feel fancy.
I've always been a fan of the Mystic Theurge prestige class and all the dislike I've seen thrown its way has only made me love it more. I've taken a pretty good, in depth look at the classes that you can mix into the Theurge and determined there are a few things you want to keep in mind.
1) Class abilities: You want class abilities from your parent classes to be useful for your entire career as a Mystic Theurge. Grab ones that do not base themselves on class level, and focus on those rare few that work based off of caster level. Focus on abilities that give bonus feats.
2) Spells: You are very unlikely to get to 9th level spellcasting unless you use prepared casters, and only just. Forget about 9th level spells! No, I am serious. Stop trying to get them and focus on the spells that you will get, and how to get the most of them.
3) Casting Ability: Try above all else to get the same Ability score tied to your spellcasting on both sides. It will help everything you do, as well as save on magical items to boost several stats at once. You will need that gold for buying items to boost your caster level. I recommend Charisma just because I love the idea of using your own force of personality to tell the universe how to work.
Arcanist and Sorcerer work best for combining with Oracle (or Feyspeaker Druid), though Sorcerer can mix with Cleric/Druid/Shaman with Wildblooded and the Empyreal bloodline.
If you'd like, I've done a bit of leg work and identified some of the best Arcanist Exploits/Archetypes and Sorcerer Bloodlines/Archetypes to take to maximize what you get out of their 4 levels.
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Casting Ability: Try above all else to get the same Ability score tied to your spellcasting on both sides.
Which usually implies Sorcerer/Oracle. Have fun getting your first 3rd level (Haste anyone?) spells at 10th level.
Maybe Feyspeaker Druid might be a decent, halfway solution.
Anyway, the reason why having multiple casting stats is not a (significant) problem is that the two lists are used for different purposes. The arcane list is generally used offensively, while the divine one is used for buffing and utility. Therefore, only the stat governing the arcane list (often Int) is relevant, while the other one (Wis) must be just high enough to let you cast your highest level spells.
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I've been working on a sort of class guide to the mystic Theurge but it hasn't gotten very far due to time constraints on my end. Here is a sample of the Arcanist and Sorcerer information I've compiled:
(Apologies for any spelling or formatting issues. This is still a rough draft)
The most common argument against playing a Mystic Theurge is falling behind on spell progression, and thus being unable to contribute fully in group play. On the surface, this argument appears not only valid; it appears to be common sense. The goal behind this in depth look into the Mystic Theurge (and its component classes) is to show that a Mystic Theurge can, and does, contribute to the party as much as a single classed magic user. They may not get the shiniest spells at the earliest opportunity, but they are the swiss-army-knife of the spellcasting world, complete with the Tony Stark-level know-how to assemble an arc-reactor from junkyard parts.
To build an effective Mystic Theurge, you have to focus on the abilities granted by its parent classes that do not rely heavily, or at all, on the level of that class because you will spend at most four levels in that class. A Mystic Theurge is like a Diesel engine; slow to heat up but able to perform longer than others. We will also speak briefly about the spell list of each class and archetypes available to each class.
Arcanist:
So, you want to be a (pokemon master) an arcanist? You are most likely fascinated with the arcanist’s ability to change up his ‘spells known’ on a daily basis and ability to cast them spontaneously with having to dole out individual uses. Well, that’s why I’m attracted to this idea. If you are dying for the flexibility and are willing to sacrifice the extra spells per day a sorcerer would get instead, this class is for you!
Arcane Reservoir: You will have 7 points (max) to use with this ability (up to 11 with favored class bonuses). However, you will have many more spell slots than normal due to your dual progression to fuel this ability. How useful this will be to you will heavily depend on what exploits you choose to learn.
Consume Spell: This ability stays relevant your entire career and should be harnessed to its full extent.
Arcanist Exploits: These abilities are one of the reasons you considered choosing arcanist as your arcane casting class (the other being spontaneous casting with uber flexibility). Avoid any exploits that depend on the arcanist class level for their effects. You will get two exploits. Anymore (or less) you receive will come from archetypes or feats you choose. I will list the exploits below that do not rely on class level:
Altered Shifting (requires Shift Caster)
Consume Magic Item
Counterspell (note that you will rarely have spell slots available that are higher level)
Dimensional Slide (40ft)
Face Thief
Familiar
Illusion Catcher (requires Face Thief)
Item Crafting
Metamagic Knowledge
Metamixing
Obfuscated Spellcasting
Potent Magic
Quick Study
See Magic
Shadow Veil
Shift Caster
Spell Disruption
Spell Tinkerer
Swift Consume
Archetypes:
Blade Adept: Not recommended. You lose both exploits for a blade that never progresses and unless you take 5 levels, you never get an actual exploit. It may be worth it to acquire Spellstrike and select Magus Arcanas, however you will never have the BAB to pull off a gish character as a mystic theurge. Focusing on buffing and using weapons other than your bound blade to target touch AC (such as flame blade and gozreh’s trident) might be a way to squeeze into this niche, but will require extreme focus.
Blood Arcanist: You lose both exploits gaining a bloodline arcana and two bloodline powers. If your GM allows you to pick from wild bloodlines, this can be useful as Empyreal can switch your casting to Wisdom, which allows casting synergy with Cleric, Druid, and Shaman classes. Trade away the powers for bloodline mutations (blood havoc and blood intensity) and/or a bloodline familiar. You will need a 5th level of Arcanist to gain any exploits and qualify for the extra Arcanist exploit feat.
Brown-fur transmuter: You trade away 3rd level exploit for the ability to increase the bonus given by a spell that enhances an ability score. This ability never gets any better with levels but any kind of bonus is increased, not just enhancement. Casting divine spells through Arcanist spellslots gets this effect and divine casters have some great buffing spells. This archetype has merit.
Eldritch Font: You gain an extra spell slot per spell level. That is great! But you have one less spell you can prepare each spell level. That mean that every time you get access to a new spell level, you have three slots you can cast but no spells to cast in them. Normally, this is a huge red stop sign in front of a brick wall. Sure, you can meta magic and consume spells but this is completely irredeemable. Or is it? Once you begin progressing Mystic Theurge, you can start casting your divine spells in those empty slots. You do lose your 3rd level exploit and get the ability to bolster a spell twice per day, though it fatigues and then exhausts you. This archetype has some interesting items to explore. See Magaambyan Initiate below.
Elemental Master: You lose both exploits and gain one that is tied to your class level. While you get to prepare an extra spell, it is not worth the trade off. Skip this one.
Harrowed Society Student: trade away consume spells for an ability to regain Pool point with a harrow reading. Limited once per day and not really dependable. Also, trade 1st exploit for Psychic Sensitivity. Pass on this unless you really want to use Occult skills and have that occult feeling.
Magaambyan Initiate: You trade away 1st level exploit for the ability to learn a Druid spell every level, though you can only casting with your arcane pool (spend ½ spell level in pool points) and expending a spell slot equal to the level of the spell. You must be good aligned and get an aura for it. Note that this archetype can be combined with Eldritch font (no conflicts). Due to your four levels, you won't get very many spells and if you take Druid or shaman as you companion class, your spells will be redundant.
Occultist: This offers an ability tied to your class level in place of an exploit. Pass. Even the spells you get (planar ally) depend on your class level.
School savant: You trade away your two exploits for access to a wizard’s school. If you pick a school that provides powers not tied to class level (look for caster level), this can be at least an even trade off. Taking a 5th level to get an exploit is needed if you are set on getting exploits.
Spell specialist: If you know that you want to cast a particular spell every day, this may be a decent archetype. You get to pick a single spell each time you gain a new spell level and it is automatically prepared (your number of prepared spells decreases by one, effectively). These spells are boosted and you can alter their form by spending arcane pool points. This archetype is front loaded, and you will only lose your 1st exploit. Only the bonus you receive to concentration checks depends on character level. Be sure that the spell you pick is the one you really want for each spell level because after 4th level, you no longer have the option of changing it.
Twilight Sage: you swap out consume spells with the ability to pretty much coup de grace a helpless, living creature and gain up to 2 pool points. Decent trade. However, you have to pick an exploit that uses your class level, though with a neat explosion around you when it goes down. Only pick this option if you want the feel of it.
Unlettered Arcanist: You get a familiar instead of a spell book and are limited to the witch spell list. This stacks with most other archetypes. Use this if you really want to play a spontaneous casting witch with exploits, rather than hexes.
White Mage: you trade 1st exploit for the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells at the cost of a spell slot and 1 arcane point. You will have access to cure spells from your divine casting class. This archetype is redundant to our needs.
Sorcerer:
Ah, the original spontaneous caster. Phenomenal cosmic power, itty bitty (living space) spells known. You may not have the flexibility of a wizard, but when you have the right spell for the job, you have the ability to cast it as many times as you need it. You are the conduit to the arcane magic of the universe and through you, magic is born. You are not even predictable, since what bloodline you inherit alters the way you interact with that magic.
Bloodline: Let’s be real here, bloodline(s) are the reason you are considering sorcerer for your arcane casting side. The plethora of different effects makes this choice extremely customizable. Being able to cast with Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence make this the go-to chassis, not to mention the ability to kick up the damage of each spell by 1 (or more) per die rolled. I won't go into the details of every bloodline as there are guides that do this. I will focus instead on archetypes and specific abilities that fit our focus. I will repeat, steer away from level defendant abilities.
Eschew Materials: Spell component bags are a drag and can be stolen. A sorcerer hasn't the time to obey magic rituals. He makes the magic work.
Bloodline Powers: You get two. Make them count. Use Eldritch heritage for the powers that depend on level, you'll have the charisma to afford them.
Bloodline Spells: You get one. It's first level. Make it a good one but otherwise ignore it.
Archetypes:
Wild-blooded: I hardly consider this an archetype but it technically is. However, this archetype is how you get WIS or INT based spell casting.
Cross blooded: You get a -2 will save and know one less spell per level. But you do get two bloodline arcanas and your pick of powers.
Dragon Drinker: alters arcana to deal bleed damage to dragons. Not bad for dragon themed campaign. You also lose claws and get ability to Imbide dragon blood, using your own blood as a catalyst if you don't have actual dragon blood. You get to heal a small amount and get a bonus to two saves for a round, usable 3+ times a day. You must also have the draconian bloodline. There are better options.
Eldritch Scrapper: This is a sorcerer trying to be a Melee character. Normally, dragon disciple and Eldritch knight could benefit from this as they’d get martial flexibility from the lost bloodline powers. For us, it's not worth it. Unless you find a way to get your mystic theurge to excel at combat, steer clear from this archetype.
Mongrel Mage: You get the bloodline power from a bloodline chosen each day, as a 1st level sorcerer. You have to spend resources to activate the full power of the bloodline, for which you get temporary access to the arcana for a few rounds. You get mongrel points (7 max), so you can do this a few times per day. You are allowed access to only basic bloodlines (no wildblooded or other archetype). If you know what you are facing that day, before hand, it could be useful. This is a risky archetype.
Razmiran Priest: You trade away eschew materials for false focus, and swap around some class skills. A bonus to UMD with divine magic items is offset because you will have divine casting levels. You trade away a bloodline power for a spell added to your list, not worth it.
Seeker: trap finding in place of eschew materials is a good trade, especially if you don't have a rogue in group. Seeker lore gives you a decent bonus to checks involving your bloodline. Definitely a niche but useful
Sorcerer of Sleep: you lose arcana, eschew materials, and 1st bloodline power to get a few level dependent abilities. You get to add a few spells to you class lists. Pass
Stone Warder: You must pick bloodline tied to earth and lose ability to cast many other types of elemental spells. This may effect your divine spells too. Pass.
Tattooed Sorcerer: trade away eschew materials for a decent feat, gain a familiar that can hide away in safety, and get a decent boost to caster level for certain spell that can even bridge to you other casting class. Only lose 1st bloodline power. Definite contender.
Wish crafter: Using wishes of others to act as verbal components to your spells is flavorful but I cannot see a purpose this actually serves. Pass.
Bloodlines:
Remember, we want abilities that do not require increased class levels to be useful. Replace such abilities with Blood havoc or Blood Intensity as needed. You will need to take Spell focus to get much use out of Blood Havoc due to our limited access to bloodline spells. If a bloodline arcana relies on class levels, it is best to avoid that bloodline entirely.
Aberrant: free extend on polymorph spells. Acidic Ray uses class level. Long limbs gives +5ft reach on touch spells.
Warped: random bonus on transmutation spell. 1st power level dependent
Abyssal: arcana and powers rely on class level. +2 know arcana, spellcraft.
Brutal: Damage spells deal 2 more damage.
Accursed: you count as a hag for covens and can boost caster level of nearby coven member. Powers use class level
Aquatic: boost to water spells and water summons. Powers are level dependent but 3rd gets you a swim speed
Seaborn: Floating, +1 caster level. 1st power level dependent
Arcane: free heighten spell at no cost when you metamagic a spell. Arcane bond is good as 1st power. 3rd power is use dependent on level, but once per day meta magic without increased casting time is useful.
Sage: Casting stat is INT,
Boreal: cold spells +1 DC. Powers level dependent but 3rd gets you ice walk/snow walk.
Rime-blooded: cold spells slow target (DC scales with spell level).
Celestial: Arcana and powers are level based. Minor resistances on 3rd power
Empyreal: Casting uses wisdom, +2 heal & know religion.
Daemon: killing things grants bonus caster levels on next spell. 1st power is no save and not level dependent. 3rd power gives minor resists and saving throw bonuses, though level dependent.
Deep Earth: spells underground get +1 dc. Powers are level dependent but 3rd gives stone cunning (as dwarf)
Bedrock: summons get DR, level dependent.
Destined: personal spells boost saves for a round. Powers are level dependent.
Karmic: Enemy provokes when you fail concentration check. 1st power level dependent
Div: dealing damage to multiple creatures with area spell increases spell DCs by 1 for up to 4 rounds. Powers are level dependent though 3rd gives resistance and saving throw bonus.
Djinni: change elemental damage to electricity. Powers level dependent, though 3rd gives good resistance to electricity
Draconic: matching energy spells get bonus damage. Powers are level dependent but 3rd gives minor resist and natural armor
Linnorn: matching elemental spells increases natural armor. 1st power level dependent
Dreamspun: targeting creature gives AC and save bonus for one round. Powers level based, 3rd gives +1 initiative
Visionary: Regain spells after one hour rest (once a day, still need normal rest or fatigued)
Ectoplasm: increased damage vs incorporeal and automatic misfortune on non-damage spells. Powers not level dependent. Tanglefoot bag and reach with touch spells
Efreeti: change elemental damage to fire. Powers level dependent, though 3rd gives good resistance to fire
Elemental: change elemental damage to match chosen attitude. Powers level dependent, though 3rd gives good resistance to chosen element
Primal: spells that match element do +1 damage per die.
Lifewater (water element): cold/water spells grant temp hp.
Fey: compulsion spells +2 DC. Powers not level dependent. Touch to make someone laugh for 1 round. Woodland stride at 3rd.
Dark Fey: Curse spells +2 DC. 1st power level dependent.
Sylvan: Animal Companion. Level dependent.
Ghoul: necromancy spells that deal damage heal you. Powers are level dependent, but 3rd gives resistance and +1 NA
Harrow: Divination spells get better. 1st level power level dependent. 3rd level power +1 to save of choice, better with levels.
Imperious: Harmful spells boost intimidation. 1st, Gain 5 skills as class skills and charisma as bonus to each. 3rd, Moral bonuses boosted by +1.
Impossible: Constructs susceptible to charm (compulsion). 1st, no save sickened touch attack (duration level dependent). 3rd, craft wondrous item (ignore one spell req)
Infernal: Charm spells at +2 DC. 1st, no save shaken touch attack (duration level dependent). 3rd, fire resist 5 and +2 vs poison.
Pit-touched: spells increase intimidate.
Kobold: +2 DC of spells to opponents denied dex. 1st, magic rune trap (level dependent). 3rd, trapsense (level dependent)
Maestro: Verbal only spells get +1 CL. 1st, daze-like ability (level dependent). 3rd, Fascinate-like ability (level dependent)
Marid: Energy spells can be changed to cold. 1st, frost ray (level dependent). 3rd, resist cold 10 (level dependent)
Shahzada: Gain swim speed after casting spell.
Martyrd: Damage in battle increases CL +1 for 1 round. 1st, trade HP for bonus on damage, saving throw, or skill check (always +1). 3rd, 1rd boost to attack/damage for all (level dependent).
Retribution: reduce meta Magic by 1 targeting creature that attacker you.
Nanite: Self-only transmutation +50% duration. 1st, make weapon poisonous (level dependent). 3rd, 1/day +4 on one roll (level dependent)
Oni: 1d4 round boost to bluff, diplomacy, intimidate based on charm/compulsion spell level. 1st, no save non-lethal damage (level dependent). 3rd, Alter self 1 min/lvl (level dependent)
Orc: Orc subtype, darkvision, light sensitivity, +1 damage per die on spells. 1st, touch gives melee bonus 1 round (level dependent boost). 3rd, +4 vs fear, +1 NA (level dependent)
Pestilence: Effecting vermin with mind-effecting abilities is good. Powers are level dependent, 3rd level power gives immune to sickness.
Possessed: Rerolling will saves is good. 1st level power level dependent. 3rd level power gives darkvision, or increases it.
Protean: Transmutation and conjuration(healing) harder to dispel. 1st level power useful (entangle), 3rd resist 5 and save bonuses
Anarchic: random can trip on failed conc check. 3rd power damages caster of dispelled/counter spelled spell.
Psychic: Spells treated as psychic (no spell failure) is great. 1st level power level dependent, 3rd bonus vs mind effecting.
Rakshasa: Spells you cast are harder to identify. 1st level power swift action +5 to bluff, 3rd level power detect thoughts 1/day
Serpentine: Affect certain creatures as if human (mind effecting/language dependent). 1st power level dependent. 3rd level power speak with reptiles and a familiar.
Envenomed: +2 to numerous skills. 3rd power level dependent poison on weapon.
Shadow: Bonus to stealth. 1st level power dazzles without save. 3rd power darkvision.
Umbral: Caster level +1 in shadow or dim light. 1st power level dependent
Shaitan: Change spell damage to acid. 1st power ray of acid. 3rd power acid resist 10
Starsoul: evocation spells highlight targets with faerie fire sparkles. 1st power level dependent. 3rd power, lowlight vision and resist cold and fire 5
Void-touched: evocation spell, pick target, failed save, silenced 1 round.
Storm born: elec & sonic DC +1. 1st power level dependent. 3rd power, resist elec & sonic 5, treat wind less severe.
Arial: Outdoors in precipitation, caster level +2.
Undead: Treat undead as humanoid for mind effecting. 1st power, no save shaken touch. 3rd power, resist cold 5, DR 5/- nonlethal.
Sanguine: Necromancy spells +1 DC. Drain blood to heal and nourish
Verdant: personal spells increase natural armor, 1st power level dependent. 3rd power built in ring of sustenance.
Groveborn: Effects plants with mind effecting. 3rd power buffs summons.
A quibble, I suppose.
Is the eventual gain or not gain of level 9 spells the important thing, or is it the delay of gaining spells of any particular level. Also, any delay in getting to Mystic Theurge not only delays what levels you can cast, but also how many total spells you can cast.
A quibble, I suppose.
Is the eventual gain or not gain of level 9 spells the important thing, or is it the delay of gaining spells of any particular level. Also, any delay in getting to Mystic Theurge not only delays what levels you can cast, but also how many total spells you can cast.
The Mystic Theurge has a heavy and expensive entry price. You will be behind the "power curve" of pure spell casters for a good portion of your career, unless you take steps to minimize the gap. You can only do something about the caster level, not the spell level. Without accepting this, no one is going to like playing a Mystic Theurge. It is not, nor will it ever be, the best choice in playing a spell caster.
If being a wizard who dabbles in divine magic is an option you might try wizard 7 / cleric 1 / mystic theurge 10 / wizard +2, using the Faith Magic arcane discovery to qualify for the PrC. You will end up with 9th level wizard spells and 6th level cleric, and the wizard spells will barely be delayed.
Honestly the bloodlines don't sell me... perhaps the once per day full recharge is amazing... there's a wizard archetype that gives you exploits aswell, though the arcanists ability to take all wizard spells and choose which few to cast at will is also amazing. Witch hexes and spells like blood money really want me to go witch as well. What divine classes do you think best mesh with which arcane to get the most out of class abilities and spell lists?
If you want to play a wizard with the feel of a witch, you can try the Spirit Whisperer. It will even allow you to still pick up Faith Magic and cheese your way into Mystic Theurge early, if you want to.
As far as I am concerned, Witch and Wizard do not make good pairings with Divine casters because their casting stats aren't the same but if you aren't worried about that, I would recommend Cleric (with archetype to remove Channel Energy as it won't progress). It would help explain, lore wise, why you took Faith Magic. Shaman brings your charisma into play for some of their abilities and may not synergize well with you already focusing on two mental stats.
Good spell progression, good stats synergy:
<none>Good spell progression, bad stats synergy:
- Wizard/...
- Cleric -> classic. Loses Channel Energy and School powers progressions; not a great loss
- Druid -> another classic. Never gets to Wild Shape and loses School powers progressions; not a great loss
- Shaman -> loses Hexes and School powers; might be harsh for hexes with DC
- Witch/... same as Wizard or worse in case of hexes with DCBad spell progression, good stats synergy:
- Sorcerer/...
- Oracle -> loses Bloodlines and Revelations progression; not a great loss if chosen wisely
Bad spell progression, bad stats synergy:
<everything else>Arcanists get 2nd level spells at 4th level, hence that combination doesn't work. I'd stick to the classic Wizard/Cleric, or eventually Witch/Shaman with suitable hexes (Evil Eye + Cackle, Cauldron, Fetish, Secret), if you feel fancy.
Let's flesh this out some (although some other people have already posted some of these):
Half-good spell progression, good stats synergy:
- Empyreal Sorcerer/...
- Cleric (alternatively, Druid, but this is not as good) -> Both 1st level and 3rd level Bloodline Powers are level-dependent, but really slowly; the 1st level power is really lousy, so try to replace it with something else. BUT, you get Wisdom as your casting stat for both classes, and only need Charisma for Channel Energy . . . if you even want to bother, since this is level-dependent.
- Almost any Sorcerer/...
- Feyspeaker Druid -> You have almost the whole list of Sorcerer Bloodlines to choose from, and in exchange for losing Druid class features that only kick in at levels you probably aren't going to get to, as well as a tiny bit of BAB, you get Charisma as your casting stat for both classes.
Half-good/half-bad spell progression, good stats synergy:
- Wizard/...
- Living Grimoire Inquisitor -> This is a late entry method done by leveling Wizard all the way to 7 (8 if you want to get your 8th level Arcane School Power), then taking the Faith Magic Arcane Discovery on a 2nd level Domain spell (which has to be cast from a 3rd level spell slot) to get the ability to cast a 2nd level divine spell, and adding 1 level of Living Grimoire Inquisitor, which is Intelligence-based and prepared instead of Wisdom-based and spontaneous, and then going into Mystic Theurge. Normally, you wouldn't want to enter a prestige class from a 6/9 spellcasting class, but in this case, depending upon your Arcane School, you may lose so little that it may be worth tacking on the modified Inquisitor spellcasting progression anyway, because unlike using Faith Magic to get into Mystic Theurge with just 1 level of any other divine spellcasting class, you don't need to reassign any ability score points to support your divine spellcasting -- you get less, but you pay less. This results in a Wizard-focused Mystic Theurge that just does a bit of Inquisitor spellcasting on the side, and just loses 1 level of Wizard spellcasting progression.
Super early entry shenanigans in both classes (NOT nerfed yet, last time I checked):
- Equipment Trick (Sunrod (Like the Sun))/...
- {Any classes that can cast [Light] spells} -> You get to cast any spell having the [Light] descriptor as 1 level higher "for all purposes", so make sure you have the ability to cast such a spell in each of your spellcasting classes, and your qualification for Mystic Theurge will need only 1 level in 1 of them and 2 levels in the other.
Best not put into Mystic Theurge:
- Witch -> gets a decent mix of arcane and divine spells natively (depends partly upon Patron choice), while Hexes are mostly level-dependent, even if for nothing other than Save DC.
- Shaman or (arguably) Spirit Guide Oracle -> Same problem as Witch with respect to Hexes and/or Revelations, and can snag some arcane spells by way of Arcane Enlightenment in the Lore Spirit -- really MAD, though.
- Any archetype that natively snags arcane spells onto a divine spellcasting chassis (like Ancient Lorekeeper Oracle) or divine spells onto an arcane spellcasting chassis (like Spell Sage Wizard) -> this is redundant with Mystic Theurge.
- Any 6/9 (or worse yet 4/9) spellcaster, unless you can throw its spellcasting onto the side of a 9/9 spellcaster for very little cost (and with good stat synergy), as in the Wizard/Living Grimoire Inquisitor example above.
Another thing you can do is play a psychic bloodline sorcerer so you can wear armor
Menhir Savant Druid is an interesting option as it lets you increase your arcane CL as well
Totally agree with earlier advice. Unless you know for absolute certain you are going to level 20 don't focus your build around getting level 9 spells. Theurges are strong in variety and quantity, not single spells
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Casting Ability: Try above all else to get the same Ability score tied to your spellcasting on both sides.Which usually implies Sorcerer/Oracle. Have fun getting your first 3rd level (Haste anyone?) spells at 10th level.
Am doing this right now. Am 9th level. It's... been painful.
BUT!
I get *three* 3rd level spells next level...! Cure serious wounds, plus... hm. Haste and dispel magic? Prayer? Fly? Fireball/lighting bolt?
If being a wizard who dabbles in divine magic is an option you might try wizard 7 / cleric 1 / mystic theurge 10 / wizard +2, using the Faith Magic arcane discovery to qualify for the PrC. You will end up with 9th level wizard spells and 6th level cleric, and the wizard spells will barely be delayed.
Now I see why PFS banned that discovery.
I think that may be the only early entry option that still works.
Another thing you can do is play a psychic bloodline sorcerer so you can wear armor
if you do this you become a psychic caster and no longer qualify for the PRC.
If being a wizard who dabbles in divine magic is an option you might try wizard 7 / cleric 1 / mystic theurge 10 / wizard +2, using the Faith Magic arcane discovery to qualify for the PrC. You will end up with 9th level wizard spells and 6th level cleric, and the wizard spells will barely be delayed.Now I see why PFS banned that discovery.
I think that may be the only early entry option that still works.
It's pretty harmless. With progression delayed 7 levels the cleric casting is flavour more than power. Banning it would be entirely unnecessary IMO.
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Howdy all, long time player first time poster.
Currently playing my first character ever, originally an OD&D elf famous for having a sword that cast cure spells, who I have converted numerous times over the decades until now. His first level was an Inspired Blade Swashbuckler w/ Fencing Grace, and will be adding levels in Draconic Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer and Warsighted Ancient Lorekeeper Oracle until he is ready to become a Mystic Theurge. Double-dipping into differently-worded versions of Martial Flexibility gets me two feats that I mostly use for defensive purposes while I cast spells.
If I am feeling really silly, I might change over to Evangelist with Theurge as my Aligned Class, which will increase both my hit points and skill points. I figure I will have plenty of Will Save so the extra Reflex save will just leave me with only Fort as weak.
Good idea or bad idea?
Another thing you can do is play a psychic bloodline sorcerer so you can wear armorif you do this you become a psychic caster and no longer qualify for the PRC.
Good catch.
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Anyone playing a heavily multiclassed spellcaster NEEDS to join a Spellcasting Guild (Inner Sea Magic) in order to obtain Esoteric Training.
It boosts one of your class' spellcasting capabilities by three caster levels, and another by one (including spells known)!
Stacked with the magical knack trait (+2 caster level to one class) and you can be casting at nearly full caster level!
Take my own theurge, Naya, for example. At 16th-level she can cast 7th-level druid spells and 8th-level wizard spells at CL 16 and 17, respectively.
Really makes the prestige class hurt a whole lot less.
I've determine that Shaman/Sorcerer or Druid/Sorcerer are the two best bets for Theurging. If your DM allows wildblooded and cross blooded to stack (I do) you take it, just do it (Orc will help boost your damage and you can cast divine spells through the sorcerer spells when you have no spells known of that level). If you can get Esoteric Training, just do it.
I rank the Shaman highest because of the hexes. Fluid Magic, Crashing Waves, Evil Eye, Chant, and Protective Luck are some of the best ones, most don't rely (much) on your Shaman level to be effective. Waves looks like the best Spirit (with a no save push back effect on a Melee touch) with Heavens being the best wandering spirit (though needs might change this, it has a no save invisibility negator, that depress attack). You can be a very good debuffer until your spells catch up, you can buff with the spells you have. A half-elf can add range to Chant hex to keep them out of immediate danger, with favored class bonus.
So, Shaman (no archetype) 5 / Empyreal Tattooed Sorcerer 5 / Mystic Theurge 10 (with Esoteric Training = 18th (9th) shaman caster, 16th (8th) sorcerer caster)
If Druid, I'd recommend Empyreal Sorcerer or Crossblooded Orc/Whatever w/ Feyspeaker Druid. Maybe add Reincarnated Druid on top of it for the lulz. It doesn't get nearly as many flashy abilities as the Shaman but it has spell superiority.
On a side note: Cleric is still a good option, especially with Faith magic as an option with Wizards. I just hate the multistat dependencies. Most of the clerics abilities won't progress well, channel is near useless, though you might find something decent under and inquisition. No doubt the rest divine spell list.