Balazar Card Progression?


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Hi, I'm pretty new to the game but I have a question.

I find the summoner in terms of spell to be a supporter but the supportive cards that I can play right now are pretty "meh".

I only have the first set and we're ordering the second along with the first character addon.

What cards do you guys use on him? we're currently stuck on the 4th scenario having issues dealing with ghosts right now.

I'm kinda getting a bit bored, not being really happy about getting new stuff during a scenario.


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If you're playing the B adventure, you're not going find a whole lot of good stuff. Just pick what you can, even if it looks like side-grade. Things start massively improving once you hit AD1+.

I assume you're playing Wrath of the Righteous; note that there is a loot you get by closing a location in that scenario which lets you add the Magic trait onto a check. You should focus on picking up that loot ASAP as the Magic trait is otherwise a bit hard to come by in the B adventure. If you lose the scenario, you still keep that loot when rebuilding, so make sure someone has it in their deck for the replay. Once someone draws it, save it for the villain -- do not spend it on any other check.

Good B/C utility spells in Wrath of the Righteous:
1. Detect Demon -- anything that lets you examine cards is great, so you know what is coming up. That said, I'd be looking to replace this spell down the road with something else.
2. Glibness/Brilliance/Sagacity/Agility -- these apply for the entirety of a turn, and +3 is a lot even later on. Pick the one(s) that most benefit the party. In my play-through of WotR, I've kept Glibness in my deck through the end of AD6 for my Seoni, it's that good.
3. Good Omen -- easier acquires and easier closes are both great, and it scales as you go on.
4. Skitter -- dual purpose utility card. First it lets you avoid nasty start or end of turn effects (can start somewhere, move to a location with nasty start/end of turn effect, explore a bunch, then move away before those effects trigger). Second is that it lets you optionally shuffle the location deck, useful if you examine something nasty and don't want to deal with it.
5. Fiery Glare -- a respectable attack spell that also doubles as a utility spell to wade through crap boons you don't want to acquire, giving you another explore with a potential recharge (unlike ally/blessing explores which will most likely be discards).
6. Enchanted Fang -- this is actually a pretty terrible card, but it's one of the few ways to give something the Magic trait early on when you still don't have any magic weapons. The person you play it on either needs a respectable Melee check, or has some animal ally they can play on arbitrary Combat checks.


Uh...Sagacity? I don't have that one. Do I get that in AD1?

Currently my deck is:

Agility, Skitter, Glibness, Brilliance, Enchanted Fang.
2x the anti-demon book
Magic Padded Armor
Blessing of Snax, 2xAscension, 1xBaphomet
Frilled Lizard, Apprentice, Blackwing Librarian.

The Inquisitor took the loot altho I think Alain should get it since he had no way of getting magic damage and he had no magic weapon.

Our group consisted of, Alain, Inquisitor, Balazar (me), and the Paladin girl.

We currently replay scenarios pretty often since I often introduce new ppl to the game and groups are still forming atm. I think it's silly to not be able to replay scenarios since we could just lose on purpose to keep the items, we keep the loot and just don't give out rewards multiple times.

I'll probably get rid of Agility as soon as I can get my hands on detect demon. Currently I'm keeping Enchanted Fang since it's my only source of magic damage.

Why would I get fiery glare? Don't I lose that after just 1 use anyways?

Also what happens if I don't have let's say enough spells after rebuilding my deck, do I just get to chose out of the basic cards?

Thanks for your fast answer =)

I tried playing alone but I got stomped on enemies requiring magic and I never pulled my enchanted fang or any weapon with a magic trait during my explorations :/


Your observations are mostly correct.

- The Summoner IS mostly a support spellcaster, and there're a few very good support spells in Wrath of the Righteous, but they're very far down the line from where you start. So if by "card progression" you mean "which Card feats to upgrade?" - you may leave the Spells for later. Blessings, Allies, and even Items will serve you better.

- WotR is notorious for its crappy Basic cards. Things start to get better only in Adventure Deck 2 (IMHO), so hold on

- WotR is ALSO notorious for the ridiculous difficulty of its Base Adventure, and by all accounts the most atrocious scenario is 0-4, Traitor's Lodge, due to the presence of both a Henchman and a Villain that require Magic, at a point in the game where your party is unlikely to have Magic weapons (it's otherwise mostly trivial if you have enough combat casters), so you're not alone there. It would be easier to give you advice if you say what your party composition is, but assuming a solo Summoner, this is what I can say:

0) Have the Magic Fang spells. Problem solved.

1) assault the locations in this order: Laboratory (2 Spells), Manor House (1 Spell, but gives you "1 out of 2" choice), Cemetery. If you come across any Attack spells - get them and hang onto them for dear life! (Yes, you WILL banish it, but you only need it to defeat Ghalkor and Karsos!)

1.1) Don't forget that Galkor may potentially require TWO Attack spells!

1.2) If you have Glibness on you - this will be essential support for you spell combat. Just remember that you need to cast it *before* you encounter the bane - you *cannot* cast 2 spells on the same check. So yeah, you'll need to have a pretty good idea in advance that you're about to face Ghalkor/Karsos

2) When you come across the Unfettered Eidolon henchman - consider NOT closing its location, so you can loot any Spells/Weapons left in the location

3) If you come across Magic Melee weapon - get it. IT does not sync with Padrig's power, and you can't keep it in your deck, but with a blessing thrown in for the combat - it's good enough to bash in some incorporeal heads

4) Once you close your first location - you get Sacred Prism which can add Magic to your check. This is one of the better items due to its versatility, so you'll be keeping it for some time (my GF brought it with her Balazar all the way into AD6 !).

5) If you have closed the Eidolon and and Ghalkor locations, but you have just recharged the Prism against Ghalkor - don't be afraid to discard/manipulate your whole deck so you can get the Prism again for your showdown with the Villain

6) If you have a back-up plan for beating Tarsos - do note that Sacred Prism can outright destroy Ghalkor, bypassing his "mirror image" effect (and indeed, the need to roll at all!!)

That's off the top of my head about scenario 0-4. As for your general deck composition question:

- after this scenario, you will almost never need MAgic to defeat things. So ditch the Attack spells and Magic Fangs, if you had them

- DO keep the Sacred Prism on Balazar, just in case. It does give him access to MAgic trait in a pinch, and worst case scenario - it's a 1d4 heal (important if you don't have Divine casters)

- SPELLS: for now, carry Sagacity, Brilliance, Agility, and Glibness in whatever numbers and composition your party needs; once you reach at least AD2 - consider swapping out any of those for the two Good Omen copies. Be on the lookout for MIrror IMage, and from AD2 - Paralyze. They can both save you from the unpleasant Before You ACt/After You ACt powers on some monsters. Also in AD2 - consider Heat Metal as versatile support spell. And, of course, in AD2 you'll find two copies of your signature spell - Charm Monster; get them both and proudly carry them into the deepest recesses of the AByss!

- ITEMS: most are crap for now, but some are worth mentioning, as our party of 6 carried them all the way into AD6 (which is also possibly a commentary on the quality of later items, but oh well):
> Wand of Paralyze: just as the AD2 spell above, but you can acsess it much earlier
> Holy Water Grenade (B): this will allow you to evade most Villains when encountered, so you can finish closing the other locations at your leisure!
> Wand of Cancellation (AD1): only useful in large parties, helps Balazar explore faster (he's pretty slow in cycling his deck, in my experience)
> Demon Hunter's Handbook (B): doesn't pack much of a punch right now, but by AD2, you'll start to feel the difference. With a Brilliance in play, Balazar also has a marginal chance to use it for the cost of reveal!
> Ring of Forcefangs (AD2 Loot): if you live to get it - you'll get a good mileage out of this one

- ARMOR: utterly disposable, pick whatever. Just make sure you can bury it to soak up all damage

- ALLY: with so much versatility, it really depends what you're looking for, but I'll recommend Demon Hunter (B), Druid of the Flame (1) and Lann (1) for the bonus to combat when used to explore. Wolverine (1) gives you a minor safe cushion against failed combat rolls. By far, the real MVP of B-set is Interrogator, who either gives you a re-roll on failed combat, or auto-success on you Knowledge check.

- BLESSING: anything non-basic. Shax will double-boost your combat.

Finally, try and persevere. WotR is arguably the hardest Pathfinder set, perhaps doubly so for new players. Once you hit AD1, however, it will all get much easier, and by AD2 you'll be wrecking demon faces with abandon. What also may not be immediately evident to you, Balazar will turn into your most reliable fighter, and further down the road - an all-around check-wrecking machine. So, strap in, bite the bullet, and push on through on your Mythic journey!

...unless you're playing a party of 6. Don't do that.

EDIT: well, it took mi about an hour to put it all down, so I got ninja'd a bunch, but my points still stand. Also, now that I see your party composition - seems pretty decent. Between your Enchanted Fang, IMrijka's on-demand Magic (yes, tactically speaking, she *should* have given the Prism away, if only for the duration of this scenario), and the Sacred Prism - you should not have had much trouble dealing with Galkor and KArsos. Maybe just a string of bad luck?

And yes, Balazar would banish Firey Glare, and yes, at this point, you can only replenish you spells with BAsics when rebuilding your deck.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There are 2 copies of Sagacity in the Wrath of the Righteous Character Add-On Deck. It is similar to Glibness and Brilliance, except it gives +3 to Wisdom checks.

You can trade cards between characters before starting a scenario, so if you think Alain should get it, say so before beginning your next scenario and see if the two players would be willing to trade. Otherwise, you can Give A Card at the start of your turn to another character at your location, so that is another way to pass cards around during the scenario itself.

Any character can only earn the scenario rewards once, and obviously if there is only 1 copy of a card in the box, only 1 character can have it. You can reply scenarios as many times as you'd like, but you do not earn the rewards more than once (characters completing it for the first time earn rewards as normal). You still rebuild your deck each time, so you can keep any cards you earned in the course of the replay.

For Fiery Glare: it seems tempting to acquire every boon you come across. Avoid this temptation. Picking up worthless boons you will never use during the scenario and nobody would want to keep afterwards just clogs up your hand or discard pile. If you get cured, it could show up again in your hand instead of some other more useful card. As such, it is sometimes better to just banish some crap boon nobody wants and get the free extra explore.

As for Fiery Glare + Balazar, yes, not a great choice for him, since he does banish it after use. But if someone else in your party can cast spells, it's a pretty good fit for that person.

You're in the B adventure, nobody will fault you for swapping out cards in your deck for other Basic cards, and Detect Demon is Basic. Just swap it out now (or pick up that Fiery Glare, then replace it with Detect Demon once you banish it and don't have any other spells that can fill the spot) :)


Muffi88 wrote:
Uh...Sagacity? I don't have that one. Do I get that in AD1?

Sagacity is in the WotR Character Add-on Deck.

Muffi88 wrote:
Why would I get fiery glare? Don't I lose that after just 1 use anyways?

You would indeed have to banish it. I'm sure skizzerz just forgot that it has the Attack trait.

Muffi88 wrote:
Also what happens if I don't have let's say enough spells after rebuilding my deck, do I just get to chose out of the basic cards?

Correct. If you don't have enough spells and the other players don't have any extra spells, you have to choose a spell with the Basic trait. Once you start adventure 3 you can instead choose any card from 2 decks below the current adventure.


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Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Muffi88 wrote:
Why would I get fiery glare? Don't I lose that after just 1 use anyways?
You would indeed have to banish it. I'm sure skizzerz just forgot that it has the Attack trait.

Nah, I knew that. I just forgot Balazar had to banish spells with the Attack trait after playing them :)


Huh? How do we get a free extra explore out of banishing a boon that we don't want?


Muffi88 wrote:
Huh? How do we get a free extra explore out of banishing a boon that we don't want?

Fiery Glare can be used to banish a boon (weapon, armor, or item, I think) that you're encountering, then immediately explore again. So you get to banish a piece of junk no one wants & explore again.


Ah thanks for all the info.

By the way does balazar's handmonsters count as undead too in the cemetery?

And does what does disable do? I thought it's against every negative barrier?


All monsters = all monsters. This is similar to Eagle Rock, which was discussed and verified here.

I'm not quite sure I understand your question about disable. Disable is a skill. A skill that isn't listed on Balazar's card. His power to banish monsters has a power feat that adds 1d4 to any check to defeat a barrier. He can use that power to add to any check by him or another character that is to defeat a card of the type "barrier" which includes henchmen and villains that are the barrier type.

There isn't such a thing as a "negative barrier" in the game's terminology. There are obviously some barriers that seem more helpful than harmful, which might be what you are referring to. But Balazar doesn't care. Not matter what the barrier does, if it is a barrier and someone is attempting a check to defeat it, he can use his power to add 1d4 to that check.

I hope that helps.


Thanks yes the disable question was a bit stupid :)

By the way. If a monster has let's say cOmbat or wisdom/divine.

If I cast a divine attackspell, do I use the combat value or the divine value of the mob? Since the attackspell say add to combat I'd assume it's just combat but in the app pathfinder adventures it was the wisdom value. my friend says we have to use combat tho.


You choose one and stick with it. The Spectre makes a good example. You can see it here.

So, you are making the check against the Spectre. Here are the steps of the check:

Attempting a Check
Determine which skill you’re using.
Determine the difficulty.
Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).
Assemble your dice.
Attempt the roll.
Take damage if you fail a check to defeat a monster.

Let's say you choose "Combat". And to do that, you played a spell like Holy Light.

Then you determine the difficulty. Assuming nothing else is affecting it, the difficulty is 11 on the Combat check you chose.

Next, you can play additional cards or use some powers to affect check. Things like the typical blessings are played here.

Now, you gather your dice together. Holy Light is Divine skill + 2d12 since this monster is undead. Let's say you Divine is ultimately 1d8+2. So you'd get 1d8 and 2d12 together.

Then the fun part, you roll those dice and add them up, plus the modifer (that +2 in your Divine skill). We'll pretend the dice added to 10. With the +2 that makes 12. That is more than 11 so you succeeded.

Finaly, you'd take damage if you failed the check. You didn't, so you don't take any damage.

So, once you chose between the options presented, you stick with that option. You can't chose Divine 7 then play Holy Light because Holy Light says "For your combat check" and since you didn't choose Combat you aren't making a combat check.

Make sense?


Yes, this was probably more a case of "i wanted it to be like this to make spells better" lol :).

By the way I see no way of losing padraig if I keep him displayed. At least not in Adventure 1.

Let's say Padraig gets banished. Wouldn't it be better for me to just kill myself so I can get him back?

I'm thinking about the following house rules because nobody here wants permadeath in the current group:

-If you die you lose all your feats but completing each scenario gives you 1 feat back until you're back to your old level.

-If you lose a cohort you can choose to kill yourself to get option 1.

-Path 3/4 wwe get 2 feats of all types so that we don't have to ridiculously grind alot

-Path 5/6 we get 4 feats of all types and our role.

The re-leveling still applies everywhere. This way dying still sucks but you're not completely f*cked and you can get your cohort back. We have 1 girl playing adowyn basically just for the wolf.


It's very difficult to lose a cohort, and for Balazar - it's practically impossible. Just remember that the very second thing that happens in each game (right after the first blessing counter is flipped) should be Balazar displaying his battle chicken; from then on - it's untouchable.

And yeah, "perma-death" is a ridiculous concept that many people have chosen to house-rule. You may want to check out the Homebrew section of the forum for alternative suggestions. (I would agree that - whatever house-rule you use for character death - it's better to treat a Cohort loss as if the owner died, and just apply the penalty, without losing the cohort)


It's pretty difficult to get Padrig banished. You don't have to wait until your turn to display it, so do so as soon as whoever goes first starts their turn.

Otherwise, Cohorts that are banished are removed from the game, so you can't get it back by killing yourself. (Technically. :)

Edit: Bah. Always refresh before hitting submit. :(


Thanks so much for the answers everybody....am I just stupid or why do I get more and more questions the more I play? is that normal? For example Usually I'd refresh my spells this way on Balazar:

Let's say I played Brilliance which gives me +3 int.

I want to refresh my spell which says I need to do an arcane or divine 8 check.

I look on my card:

Charisma

Arcane:Charisma +2

I'd like to understand this step, why does it say Arcane:Charisma? does that mean that basically my arcane is rolled through my charisma?

anyways.

Usually I'd recharge my Researcher to give myself a 1d6 to my non-combat charisma check but since this isn't a charisma check but a arcane one I cannot use the researcher right?


skizzerz wrote:

There are 2 copies of Sagacity in the Wrath of the Righteous Character Add-On Deck. It is similar to Glibness and Brilliance, except it gives +3 to Wisdom checks.

You can trade cards between characters before starting a scenario, so if you think Alain should get it, say so before beginning your next scenario and see if the two players would be willing to trade. Otherwise, you can Give A Card at the start of your turn to another character at your location, so that is another way to pass cards around during the scenario itself.

Any character can only earn the scenario rewards once, and obviously if there is only 1 copy of a card in the box, only 1 character can have it. You can reply scenarios as many times as you'd like, but you do not earn the rewards more than once (characters completing it for the first time earn rewards as normal). You still rebuild your deck each time, so you can keep any cards you earned in the course of the replay.

For Fiery Glare: it seems tempting to acquire every boon you come across. Avoid this temptation. Picking up worthless boons you will never use during the scenario and nobody would want to keep afterwards just clogs up your hand or discard pile. If you get cured, it could show up again in your hand instead of some other more useful card. As such, it is sometimes better to just banish some crap boon nobody wants and get the free extra explore.

As for Fiery Glare + Balazar, yes, not a great choice for him, since he does banish it after use. But if someone else in your party can cast spells, it's a pretty good fit for that person.

You're in the B adventure, nobody will fault you for swapping out cards in your deck for other Basic cards, and Detect Demon is Basic. Just swap it out now (or pick up that Fiery Glare, then replace it with Detect Demon once you banish it and don't have any other spells that can fill the spot) :)

Thanks alot we beat the first adventure today :)

My deck currently is as follows:

Armor: Magic Padded Armor

Items: Ring of Climbing+Caltrop Beads

Spells: Glibness, Brilliance, Enchanted Fang, Good Omen, Agility, Skitter

Allies: Researcher, Apprentice, Blackwing Librarian

Blessings: Shax,Abraxas, Ascension, Baphomet.

I'm thinking about replacing the Researcher with the second Blackwing Librarian if the researcher can't help me with recharging arcane spells.


Muffi88 wrote:

Charisma

Arcane:Charisma +2

I'd like to understand this step, why does it say Arcane:Charisma? does that mean that basically my arcane is rolled through my charisma?

Your Arcane skill is based on your Charisma skill. It's equal to your Charisma die + your Charisma modifier (from Charisma skill feats) + 2.

Muffi88 wrote:
Usually I'd recharge my Researcher to give myself a 1d6 to my non-combat charisma check but since this isn't a charisma check but a arcane one I cannot use the researcher right?

Because your Arcane skill is based on your Charisma skill, all of your Arcane checks are also Charisma checks.

The rules text for this is the Attempting a Check section; in the Mummy's Mask rulebook it's pages 10 and 11.


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Take a look at this post for a deep dive into checks. It was written back in the S&S era but is still accurate (only thing it doesn't cover is "invokes")


This is really getting more and more confusing. When I think I understand something something new pops up...I read your stuff and all the rules but maybe it's because I'm not a native english speaker.

For example

Let's say I play Force Missile

The spell has Magic, Arcane, Attack, Force and Basic traits

What's the point of the spell telling me to add the force trait? I'm trying to learn the game in the app, it helped me a great deal but stuff like this confuses me.


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It's redundant and not strictly necessary, as the check already has the trait just by playing the card. However, sometimes it may explicitly say to add a trait it already has to serve as a helpful reminder for people who jump into playing without reading through the rulebook carefully first.

Rise of the Runelords cards had a lot of things like that, which were shored up for future printings. Later printings of Force Missile do not say to explicitly add the Force trait anymore, as it is redundant.

RotR was the very first set, so its wording and rules have a lot of ambiguities that were cleared up by later sets. The Mummy's Mask rulebook PDF (most recent set as of this post) should be your go-to if you want a rules clarification. Note that the MM rulebook only contains the most recent version of the general rules, if you want the rules concerning redemption and corrupted cards (for instance), you'll still need to consult the Wrath of the Righteous rulebook.


There is no point. The power telling you to add that trait is redundant, but not inaccurate .


aw man I wish I could play with you guys. But I think I have it down now :)


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Well... you technically could :)

Hawkmoon and cartmanbeck are trailing a new method to do Play-by-Post for the Adventure Card Game. Should that work out well, I think we may have a few PbPs going on these forums for card game stuff (mostly organized play probably, but could look into doing a regular AP as well).

And, depending on your physical location, there's also conventions and ad hoc meetups that happen (I haven't had the chance to go to any of them though :<)


I think pathfinder is sadly not very popular in germany for some reason. At least not the card game.

the next hook up would be frank furt. If I had a larger space I'd probably even set myself up as a meeting point on this page but we're already 12 people.


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Ah, a fellow german!
If you have trouble with the language barrier, you can ask me questions in german through private message, if you want. You should also be aware that there is a translated version of the card game available in german, but it is not distributed by paizo. There might even be a translated manual online, if that helps, but only the first two adventure paths 'Rise of the Runelords' and 'Skulls & Shackles' are translated yet.


Doppelschwert wrote:

Ah, a fellow german!

If you have trouble with the language barrier, you can ask me questions in german through private message, if you want. You should also be aware that there is a translated version of the card game available in german, but it is not distributed by paizo. There might even be a translated manual online, if that helps, but only the first two adventure paths 'Rise of the Runelords' and 'Skulls & Shackles' are translated yet.

yes I know but I wanted an adventure with a high difficulty. RotR had a fantasy setting which is ok but a bit boring.

You aren't from baden wurttemberg by chance? :P


I'm actually from BW, yes. While I don't attend public games, I know that the pathfinder society in Heidelberg hosted some public card games around february last year, so you might be interested to contact them. I'll send you a PM with the details.


Doppelschwert wrote:
I'm actually from BW, yes. While I don't attend public games, I know that the pathfinder society in Heidelberg hosted some public card games around february last year, so you might be interested to contact them. I'll send you a PM with the details.

That would be cool :), I'm from Karlsruhe btw

By the way on the app when fighting nualia with 2 characters at 1 location it won't let me fight her 2 combat checks with different characters.

I watched a WOTR youtube video where a 3 headed chimaera is fought against and he did all 3 checks with different characters (all at the same location too).

are there some rules in WOTR that aren't there in ROTR?


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All base sets have the same rules; when the rulebook is updated those updates apply to all previously-released sets as well. Set-specific things are found in their own set's rulebook, otherwise the general rules are the same between sets.

The digital app is not a faithful rendition of the rules, it bends and breaks some of them in order to make the game work better in digital format. When a card has multiple sequential checks to acquire or defeat, the character encountering the card must attempt at least one of those checks, but other characters at the same location can help with the rest of the checks. This is a general rule that applies to every set.

MM rulebook, p11 wrote:
Only the character who encounters the card may attempt the check, save for one exception: if a card requires sequential checks, the character who encountered the card must attempt at least one of the checks, but any other checks may each be attempted by any character at the encountering character’s location. While you are attempting a check against such a card that you did not encounter, powers that would apply to the character who encountered it apply to you instead.


skizzerz wrote:


The digital app is not a faithful rendition of the rules, it bends and breaks some of them in order to make the game work better in digital format..

Ok this was super important to know for me, thanks a ton!


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You can use multiple characters at the same location to take different checks in the app. There is an icon above the check difficulty you need to click (haven't played in awhile, I forget what it looks like). Then it lets you pick a character.

If you search the Obsidian forum, you'll see this explained.

Though otherwise skizzerz is right.

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