What if a Razmir Priest is Found Out?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Sczarni

The Players in my game will start the campaign by breaking out of a Razmiran prison where they were awaiting execution for various crimes and for not denouncing their respective religions and seeing Razmir as their God. The prison will be run by one of Razmir's wizard-priests who will act as the warden and the boss of the prison. Many peasants work at the prison as servants. If the PCS kill the warden and reveal him to be a wizard using magic items, how should the peasants react?

If they spread the story of fake priests how should the Church of Razmir react?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Brofessor X wrote:
If the PCS kill the warden and reveal him to be a wizard using magic items, how should the peasants react?

The same way real-world people react when a religious figure is revealed to have been getting up to impropriety... some will question their faith, some will accept that this one individual was a fraud but claim that the church as a whole is a valid institution, some will simply refuse to believe the evidence... and so forth.

Quote:
If they spread the story of fake priests how should the Church of Razmir react?

Violently. These guys send out "faith barges" to shake people down on the open water. Safe bet some noisy do-gooders spouting off are going to be the target of smear campaigns, assassination attempts, forcible conversion attempts via magic, well-reasoned public debates, blackmail..

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Will the average peasant even care if the person that heals them for money is using a wand with SKILLZ or can actually cast the spell directly from a power? Will the peasants be up in arms that these convicted heretics organized a riot and destroyed their employer and place of work? How will the village(s) react now that 1) their local healers and councilors have been all murdered and 2) they have no jobs?

The average Golarite, being a 1-3HD NPC classed individual, likely cares less who runs the religion nearby. Look at Cheliax, Molthune, Nidal, and eastern Garund as examples. Open devil worship, public flayings in the name of Zon-Kuthon (an actual and actually evil god), and evil genies, crazy mages, and zombies running things doesn't seem to chase all the common folk away. These people (in whatever region, likely near Encarthen simply for the fact that they're dealing with Razmirans) have come to depend on these priests for essential services (usually the only services in the region thanks to Living God Diplomacy). To the peasant, they're decidedly not the bad guys, they're just expensive and have strict terms of service.

If you really wanted to sell them as heroes of the area after trashing the prison, have a prominent number of 'old guard' of the surrounding villages in the prison to earn as allies. The seven former councilmen who, over the course of two years, all "died in mysterious circumstances" coming back with assurances that the masked priests were up to nary a lick of good is sensibly the only way your party would be able to convince a few score neutral commoners, experts, and nobles that you're not the enemy. It would be easier for the commoners to accept the ouster of someone who deals with devils and demons on the regular, but these guys are just earning a "honest" living by providing the people with "cheap" healthcare, "affordable" housing, and "reliable" security. They've likely spent years integrating themselves into the community to reach this point of power, and the community shouldn't roll over without any corroboration from people they trust.

Or even better, the PCs are some of that "Old Guard" that used to be pillars of the community, that for whatever reasons ended up rotting in a reinforced cavern complex beneath the "Living God Community Center." They depose the theocracy imposed in the town and as former leaders they have some modicum of trust that doesn't need built.

As for how the church would react? Reset infiltration, begin again, play the long game. In a dozen years, the community will be ripe for the pickens all over again, especially after all those pesky community leaders leave (on a grand adventure!) or pass on to climb the Steps as they strive to attain perfection in the Living God's image.


This may be a bit OT but I've long been curious about the land of Razmiran itself. What books if any have covered it?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

The references on the Wiki entry list Campaign Setting, ISWG, People of the River, and Blood of Fiends. There is a bit more info in the three Razmir centered adventures (Crypt of the Everflame, Masks of the Living God, and City of Golden Death), but its mostly contained in sidebars and intro text. There are 2 pages on the Church in Faction Guide, and a different 2 pages in Occult Mysteries. Razmir himself gets half a page in Inner Sea Gods.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Eric Hinkle wrote:
This may be a bit OT but I've long been curious about the land of Razmiran itself. What books if any have covered it?

the Occult Mysteries book has a really cool entry on some stuff in Razmiran.


I guess one question I have is why Razmir hasn't been the subject of more scrutiny by other organized relgions? Any temple-leading cleric of an organized religion would likely have access to commune (assuming they are 9th level or higher), and could simply ask if Razmir is truly a divine being or not (or divinity, or however they wanted to phrase it, they get 9+ questions after all). Knowing the answer, they could raise up a campaign to de-deify the false god.

I think the concept of Razmir is a neat one, I just don't see how it's been prolonged for so long. If he was more benevolent to outsiders I could see why other good deities would tolerate him, but given his methods I could see deities from all aspects having their followers actively deal with him and his followers.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dosgamer wrote:
I think the concept of Razmir is a neat one, I just don't see how it's been prolonged for so long.

My handwavey response is that every major religion has bigger fish to fry than one upstart mortal whose influence is merely localized anyhow.

Why worry about Razmir the imposter when Zon-Kuthon, Lamashtu, and Rovagug ARE gods and they're working against you?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Proof is in the pudding, though. The Shelynite clergy across the Lake in Andoran can preach all day and night about these masked priests who come from the other side of the Lake and how they're serving a false god. But what do the Razmiri do? They perform holy services, provide healing and healthcare, and perform every single functional service that a "real" church does. They are real, tangible, priests, just as much as a cleric or warpriest for Shelyn is, and moreso than your run of the mill adepts.

To your average lay person in Razmirian infected areas, they are, simply, real. And nodding to Cole Deschain above, to these normal people, Razmir is much more of a real god than the myths of Zon-Kuthon, The Mother of Monsters, and the Rough Beast.

"The priests always blaming everything bad on those 'evil gods,' but have you ever seen one of their priests? I sure haven't. These masked fellows may be a bit ornery, but they can get me that magically enchanted plow I've been after for years. The Abadarans have always insisted that there isn't one even invented, but Vision Tellus has a contact across the Lake who should have one sent over by the end of Lamashan. Only cost me a half production interest in my east field."


After a bit of research, it seems that Razor's biggest saving grace is the countries he is surrounded by. Ustalav and Kyonin both have much bigger problems than this tiny little country supposedly controlled by a god, and the rest of his immediate neighbors are River Kingdoms. Simply put, Razmir just isn't that big of a deal once you get out of Razmir an.

Scarab Sages

How do you prove that he was a wizard to the peasants?
Will they accept any spells you use to do so?
Will they accept academic proof from other nations or churches?


Dosgamer wrote:

I guess one question I have is why Razmir hasn't been the subject of more scrutiny by other organized relgions? Any temple-leading cleric of an organized religion would likely have access to commune (assuming they are 9th level or higher), and could simply ask if Razmir is truly a divine being or not (or divinity, or however they wanted to phrase it, they get 9+ questions after all). Knowing the answer, they could raise up a campaign to de-deify the false god.

I think the concept of Razmir is a neat one, I just don't see how it's been prolonged for so long. If he was more benevolent to outsiders I could see why other good deities would tolerate him, but given his methods I could see deities from all aspects having their followers actively deal with him and his followers.

Why would you ask? The world has many gods and at a look he seems to grant magic too - in short the suspicion isn't really there. Someone faking a god isn't something that occurs that often, and no one has ever faked so well.

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