Large Shield with Medium characters

[Victoria Volt]

Hi there!

Well,there any way a medium character use a large heavy shield? The heavy shield still giving +2 CA bonus or increases? Or only the damage is modified?

Heavy Shield(M) 1d4
Heavy Shield(L) 1d6

My purpose is to use bash attack with a GREAT shield, like tower shield, but its not possible... So a had a idea of using a large heavy shield to bashes them!! hyahahya xD

Is it possible in any way?

><

[Vince Frost]

There are no Rules on Inappropriately Sized Shields.
The only rules would be Inappropriately Sized weapons.
That means -2 on all shield attack rolls and your 1h heavy shield is now a 2h heavy shield, but the damage does goes up.

No rules on any AC, ACP or gain cover changes. Therefore the stay the same. A large heavy shield does not become a tower shield for you.

[Claxon]

For what it's worth, the slight damage increase from damage die going up is almost never worth the penalties you take from inappropriately sized weapons. It helps a little for a couple low levels, but honestly the penalty to hit just isn't worth it.

As mentioned, there are no rules for oversized shields so they provide the same AC, etc.

[Gallant Armor]

Try a large sized, spiked, bashing shield with effortless lace while under the effect of an enlarged person spell.

This would be a +4 (4d6 damage) to +5 (6d6 damage) size categories depending on if shield spikes stack (you need them for effortless lace regardless).

If you play a Shield Champion Brawler you get some nice shield abilities as well as close weapon mastery which lets you swap out the "base damage" of a weapon with brawler level-4 unarmed damage. Depending on interpretation on if size increases would increase "base damage" this could bump your damage up to 16d8 at level 16 if you take the half-orc's FCB and get Monk's robes.

Add in Greater Vital Strike and you have 64d8 damage on a single attack.

I highly doubt my interpretations would be accepted by a sane GM, but it is always fun to see what you can get away with.

[Vince Frost]

To Gallant Armor,

Spiked shields and bashing do not stack. Weapon scaling has changed as well.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s703?Improved-Damage-Improved-Natural-Attack-a nd

[Gallant Armor]

RAW you are correct, but some GMs allow it with the logic that it does make the shield physically larger. Given that bashing gives a +2 size increase for a +1 enhancement I think it's fair to not have it stack with a spiked shield.

As I said in my previous post, you would need it either way in order to have effortless lace remove the weapon size penalty.

[KainPen]

Gallant Armor wrote:

Try a large sized, spiked, bashing shield with effortless lace while under the effect of an enlarged person spell.

This would be a +4 (4d6 damage) to +5 (6d6 damage) size categories depending on if shield spikes stack (you need them for effortless lace regardless).

If you play a Shield Champion Brawler you get some nice shield abilities as well as close weapon mastery which lets you swap out the "base damage" of a weapon with brawler level-4 unarmed damage. Depending on interpretation on if size increases would increase "base damage" this could bump your damage up to 16d8 at level 16 if you take the half-orc's FCB and get Monk's robes.

Add in Greater Vital Strike and you have 64d8 damage on a single attack.

I highly doubt my interpretations would be accepted by a sane GM, but it is always fun to see what you can get away with.

as stated above bashing does not stack with spikes any longer.

the most I think you can get this method is either 8d8 or if enlarged 12d8 as base with all the vital strike if all condition are right 36d8. That is if Bashing still works close weapon mastery.

There is debate that close weapon mastery over rides bashing and virtual size increases of the weapon. Because larger shield and bashing changes the base damage of the actual shield, but not the unarmed strike. you have to use things that increase the unarmed strike damage. which is why monks robe would work on it and favored class bonus of half orc would work.

So if you had enlarged bashing shield you would have the option of choosing 2d6 damage as base 3d6 if you are enlarged; or using close weapon mastery and doing 2d8 as base and 4d8 if you are enlarged. I don't remember if there is any spell that increase the virtual size of unarmed strike but if there is 6d8 is the highest you can go according to that argument.

[Victoria Volt]

Wow!
You rule guys...

Hmm, there any way i can bash with Tower Shield? Feats, archtypes, classes?

[Gauss]

Vince Frost wrote:

There are no Rules on Inappropriately Sized Shields.

The only rules would be Inappropriately Sized weapons.
That means -2 on all shield attack rolls and your 1h heavy shield is now a 2h heavy shield, but the damage does goes up.

No rules on any AC, ACP or gain cover changes. Therefore the stay the same. A large heavy shield does not become a tower shield for you.

You are correct there are no rules covering inappropriately sized shields, ergo, you cannot do it without GM fiat.

So, while you can use an inappropriately sized shield as a weapon you cannot use it as a shield unless the GM allows it because there is no rule stating you can do so.