Add level to the damage

[KongShan]

Hello everyone！I have a simple question.

If one class have two different class features can both add level to the damage, so how does it work?

Example:

Oath against Chaos Paladin: Smite Chaos + Smite Evil
Daring Champion Cavalier:Challenge + Precise Strike
Virtuous Bravo Paladin(from Hero of High Court, not in Additional Resources yet): Smite Evil + Precise Strike

Does it considered to be the same source, or not? how many damage when the first hit on a double smited demon? X4?

We were argued in PFS game. NO one can convince the other one.

[BigNorseWolf]

[Paladin level] and [cavalier level] should stack, but if you have some funky archtype that winds up dealing [paladin level]+ [paladin level] it wouldn't, unless it's some other type of bonus (don't have heroes of the high court to look and it hasn't hit d20pfsrd yet)

[LoPan666]

The issue is less with the how the variable number of the bonus is determined (i.e., whether the bonus is based on level or Charisma mod) but whether the bonus is typed. Bonuses of the same type (i.e., morale, sacred, luck, etc.) do not stack. For example, the bonus that Smite Evil provides to attacks and damage against evil creatures is an untyped bonus and will stack with anything (note that the bonus to AC is listed as a deflection bonus and will not stack with other deflection bonuses).

[GreySector]

Its important to note that whenever a class ability refers to your level, it is referring to your class level (i.e. the level in the class which grants the ability) unless it specifically refers to your character level (i.e. the total of your levels in all classes).

[KongShan]

Pete Winz wrote:

The issue is less with the how the variable number of the bonus is determined (i.e., whether the bonus is based on level or Charisma mod) but whether the bonus is typed. Bonuses of the same type (i.e., morale, sacred, luck, etc.) do not stack. For example, the bonus that Smite Evil provides to attacks and damage against evil creatures is an untyped bonus and will stack with anything (note that the bonus to AC is listed as a deflection bonus and will not stack with other deflection bonuses).

It means Smite Evil can stack with Smite Chaos? Because they are both untyped?

[KongShan]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

Its important to note that whenever a class ability refers to your level, it is referring to your class level (i.e. the level in the class which grants the ability) unless it specifically refers to your character level (i.e. the total of your levels in all classes).

Each of example referring to one same class level. one class, two abilities, both add classlevel to one damage roll.

[KongShan]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

[Paladin level] and [cavalier level] should stack, but if you have some funky archtype that winds up dealing [paladin level]+ [paladin level] it wouldn't, unless it's some other type of bonus (don't have heroes of the high court to look and it hasn't hit d20pfsrd yet)

Both bonus is untype, or dose "precision damage" count as a different type?

[LoPan666]

I noticed that I had not addressed the question about how to resolve the issue of how to apply damage multipliers from different sources to one attack. When multiple damage modifiers are applied (such as from a critical hit when smiting), the extra damage dice are added and not multiplied. For example, if a smite against an evil creature (x2 damage on first attack) is made with a Spirited Charge lance attack (x3 damage) that crits (x2 damage), the total damage dice are added together (3x base for Spirited charge + 1 extra for smite + 1 more extra for crit for a total of 5x damage) rather than multiplied (12x damage).

[LoPan666]

Precision damage does not typically refer to a bonus type but rather to damage that can only be applied to creatures with discernible anatomy (i.e., rogue sneak attack, swashbuckler precise strike, etc.), so precision damage from different sources will stack. Note that precision damage is not multiplied on a crit.

[KongShan]

Let's start over

My question is:

Lv 5 Oath against Chaos Paladin, smite chaos a demon, then smite evil this same demon next turn and hit it with his sword. How many additional damage should he deal? 10, 15 or 20 for first hit? 5 or 10 for other hit?

I sorry maybe because of my poor English wasted of our time. But our argued really didn't have any progress. #_#

[KongShan]

And is there have more suitable way or place to ask your questions about the rules in PFS game?

[Chess Pwn]

I don't think they stack because smite evil is gained through your smite chaos. So the smites don't stack.
But the cavalier and paladin that get precise strike stack with their smite/challenge.

[Chess Pwn]

KongShan wrote:

And is there have more suitable way or place to ask your questions about the rules in PFS game?

Yes, there's a rules forum on here.

[LoPan666]

I noticed an error I had made earlier - when smiting an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or undead, the damage bonus [Edit] on the first attack [/Edit] becomes two points per level rather than one, but it does not affect the base damage dice of the weapon. This entire bonus is a static bonus and so would be multiplied on a crit. So a paladin who scores a Spirited Charge lance crit using smite versus one of those creatures would be doing (regular non-smite base damage + 2x level for smite)x4 for Spirited Charge and crit.

You should also consider action economy - I'm not familiar with Smite Chaos, but if it acts like Smite Evil, it requires a swift action to activate, so you would be able to activate only one of them a round, although they may last beyond the round in which they are activated.

[KongShan]

Thomas Hutchins wrote:

I don't think they stack because smite evil is gained through your smite chaos. So the smites don't stack.

But the cavalier and paladin that get precise strike stack with their smite/challenge.

Thanks, it's a reasonable answer.

[KongShan]

Pete Winz wrote:

I noticed an error I had made earlier - when smiting an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or undead, the damage bonus [Edit] on the first attack [/Edit] becomes two points per level rather than one, but it does not affect the base damage dice of the weapon. This entire bonus is a static bonus and so would be multiplied on a crit. So a paladin who scores a Spirited Charge lance crit using smite versus one of those creatures would be doing (regular non-smite base damage + 2x level for smite)x4 for Spirited Charge and crit.

You should also consider action economy - I'm not familiar with Smite Chaos, but if it acts like Smite Evil, it requires a swift action to activate, so you would be able to activate only one of them a round, although they may last beyond the round in which they are activated.

Thanks for you help :)

[My Self]

Your level can stack as many times as you want to damage. Your level is not a "source" in the same way that your stats are a source (compare WIS to AC, which does not stack from multiple classes). However, you need to be aware that the specific features sometimes do not. Smite Evil usually does not stack with Smite Chaos gained from the same class. Smite Evil and Challenge stack, although they must be activated on separate turns because of the swift action economy. Precise Strike is a little different, although it stacks in most cases. It does not multiply on criticals, since it is precision damage. It stacks with other sources of Precise Strike, but if you spend panache to double it, you only double one class's Precise Strike damage (not both). But for most intents and purposes, level to damage can stack indefinitely.

[Chad Nedzlek]

A point that I'm not sure you are aware of, I'm pretty sure that you don't have Smite Evil anymore anyway, because the Oath Against Chaos has this text in Smite Chaos: "This ability replaces smite evil." So it doesn't matter if they can/do/would stack... you don't have both of them anyway.

[Chess Pwn]

if you actually read the archetype you'd see that at lv4 that they regain the ability to smite good conditionally.