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Hi everybody, I put together a tinker class using two classes and three archetypes (Gunslinger (Experimental Gunsmith and Gun Scavenger) and Investigator (Scavenger)).
In any case, I'd really like your thoughts and feedback:
Balanced/Unbalanced/Playable?
What do you like, what do you think needs tinkering with?
SKILLS
I think you should make this 4 skill points per level, and trim down the skill list a bit. He probably doesn't need all knowledge skills and all three social skills. Disguise is a strange addition too.
TABLE
Change "extracts" to "gadgets". Change the name of investigator talents.
GADGETRY
I would be in favor of a bonus to Knowledge (engineering) rather that Craft (clockwork). You should remove all mentions of alchemy, liquids, etc. You're making a new class, not an archetype. No need to illustrate how it difference from the class you based it on. So he makes gadgets instead of extracts. We know that you drink an extract. What happens with the gadget?
CONSTRUCT MASTERY
Poisons are infrequent in low levels games, but they do appear. Creatures with the construct are pretty rare in my experience, and when they do show up they are trying to kill the party. How often do you expect the tinker to modify or repair a construct before he has the ability to create one? I suggest removing this class feature altogether and then re-introducing it as a higher level talent. Maybe replace it with an ability that allows him to spend inspiration to modify or repair gear, temporarily at least.
Good to have some free Tinker stuff out there. ;)
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Major overhaul of spell-list, to be a bit more thematic.
Updated and increased talent list.
Cleaned up some rules language and removed some unnecessary references to the parent classes.
Would absolutely love feedback.
My GM is going to run Iron Gods and I want this class to be balanced against other Paizo classes.
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A few thoughts:
Why Heal and Knowledge (Nature) on the tech guy?
Similar question for the rogue talents. I can see specific individual ones, but any of the minor and major ones? There's nothing about this concept that screams "Convincing Lie" or "Master of Disguise".
Does your Clockwork Companion get Clockwork traits? If so, it becomes WAY too powerful for a 5th level investment. I've done something similar (feel free to crib from my homebrew Futurist class), and clockwork traits made even a familiar considerably more battle worthy. Adding that to an eidolon is a LOT higher than a 5th level thing. This does assume you are giving it the clockwork traits.
I've gone back and forth about the Gunsmithing Innovations. They each seem to have an intrinsic drawback, and the Innovations SEEM like they should be more powerful than what the base innovation does.
Finally, why did you go with Studied Target instead of Gunslinger Deeds? It feels a bit more like a Scavenger Investigator that happens to be more specialized with a gun.
With all of that said, it feels pretty balanced, and it looks like it could stand beside anything other class in PF. Good stuff, man!
Thank you for your excellent and specific feedback.
I went either way on Heal, but without social skills the skill list was looking a bit anemic, and Heal is still pretty sciency, I figured it would be useful if I made some cyborg/clockborg grafts. As for Knowledge (Nature), it's the closest I could find to a Kn. Science skill. Many of the mechanical talents mimic forms in nature, as do the familiar and possibly the Construct companion.
I called out especially specific Rogue Talents as Tinker Talents, but the idea is that the Tinker should be something of a rennaissance man/genius type. He can only select one regular and one advanced rogue talent. So if the Tinker wants to spend 2 of their 9 Talents to be good at disguise, I'd be okay with that.
The Construct Companion doesn't gain Clockwork traits, it does however gain Robot traits in order to justify an intelligence score. The familiar does gain clockwork traits, but still has the stats of a normal tiny animal, just with a suite of cool defenses. A Tinker could take Improved Familiar at 7th level to get a proper Clockwork Familiar.
I'm happy with the innovations having drawbacks, this should be the science equivalent of the Wild Mage. The experimental firearm should be doing cool stuff, and sometimes exploding in the tinker's face. Unstable genius is part of the theme. I could make the benefits more dramatic, compared to the drawbacks, but since I cribbed them wholecloth from the parent classes I was wary of changing them up too much.
I went with Studied Target because it's the Pathfinder version of Genius Vision. With all those numbers and words scrolling past Tony Stark, or Amadeus Cho's head as they figure out the perfect angle to do the mot damage. A Tinker who really wants to focus on their gun could take individual deeds as Tinker Talents, but if they didn't want to make that a focus, I didn't want to straight up make them that.
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Also JAMRennaisance, I love the Futurist class you made. Had I found this I might not have gone to all this effort lol. I see a lot of parallel designs here.
I actually considered cribbing the Occultist mechanics, but was worried about overcomplicating/overpowering things and stuck closer to Alchemist talents.
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ART! An artist has kindly allowed me to use her art in this little project of mine so I've updated the PDF with ART to make it a little nicer to look at.
I've put even MORE stuff into gadgets, to make corner cases clearer for the GM and player.
Fewer mechanical inspiration points (1/3rd Tinker level + INT bonus rather than 1/2).
Changed many Tinker Talents:
Clockwork familiar requires actions to direct, and inspiration can be used to reduce the action time.
Construct companion also requires actions to direct, and inspiration can be used to reduce the action time. Construct companion now needs three talents to be a full combat companion, and is based off animal companion rather than eidolon (can gain evolutions with separate talent).
Turret reload and aim times are made explicit in the talent text.
Many talents changed to wearable devices, which take up magic item slots.
MORE TALENTS!
Two new Innovations.
And again the art.
As always, honest and specific feedback is always deeply appreciated. Playtest data is invaluable.
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Major changes!
Studied Target and Studied Strike swapped for Overdrive and Experimental Strike.
Cleared up the rules for device talents.
New 20th level capstone.
Renamed Mechanical Inspiration to Genius, and it recovers faster the worse luck you have. Tinkers tend to be at their best as things are backfiring and falling apart.
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Oooo, I do rather like this. I feel like we've needed a more physical crafting class for a while, and this is really fun!
I've had a few ideas for my own tinker-type thing, but mine is more specialist science hero than superhero, more suitable for The Doctor than Tony Stark.
I really like the flavour of rising to misfortune, rather than most such abilities which just exacerbate a run of good luck.
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Oooo, I do rather like this. I feel like we've needed a more physical crafting class for a while, and this is really fun!
I've had a few ideas for my own tinker-type thing, but mine is more specialist science hero than superhero, more suitable for The Doctor than Tony Stark.
I really like the flavour of rising to misfortune, rather than most such abilities which just exacerbate a run of good luck.
Thank you for the kind words.
I'd love to see your take on a mundane smarty.