If I wildshape into an earth elemental that has 2 slam attacks at +35 to hit, can I use a full attack action to make 3 iterative attacks at 35/30/25 (using druid BAB progression & attacking with only one of the slams as if it were a normal weapon) instead of making two attacks at +35?
If I wildshape into an earth elemental that has 2 slam attacks at +35 to hit, can I use a full attack action to make 3 iterative attacks at 35/30/25 (using druid BAB progression & attacking with only one of the slams as if it were a normal weapon) instead of making two attacks at +35?
Natural attacks never get iterative attacks for a high base attack bonus. You need some sort of special bonus (like a haste spell) to get multiple attacks with a single natural weapon.
Oh, well ok then... could I wield a weapon as an earth elemental?
Oh, well ok then... could I wield a weapon as an earth elemental?
Elementals can wield weapons, yes. They just generally don't.
So... If I get iterative attacks with a greatsword, could i then make a slam attacks as secondary natural attacks at -5 by using a free action to hold the greatsword in 1 hand after i attack with it?
(35/30/25) + (30)
(+I assume I cant do both slams while holding a weapon?)
A dwarven dorn-dergar is a good one. Make it huge like the elemental. Argue that it gets reach from being bigger. Learn the feat that lets you quickly change between close range and long. Lock down the battlefield.
So... If I get iterative attacks with a greatsword, could i then make a slam attacks as secondary natural attacks at -5 by using a free action to hold the greatsword in 1 hand after i attack with it?
(35/30/25) + (30)(+I assume I cant do both slams while holding a weapon?)
No. I don't think the rules allow you to gain the two-handed increase in damage AND another attack from the same appendage at the same time.
Use a one-handed weapon, or find a way to increase your number of natural attacks and never bother with iteratives.
No. I don't think the rules allow you to gain the two-handed increase in damage AND another attack from the same appendage at the same time.
Use a one-handed weapon, or find a way to increase your number of natural attacks and never bother with iteratives.
Are you sure I cant use a free action in between attacks to let go of the weapon? Im sure I read that you could take swift actions in between the attacks of a full round attack, so i assumed you could at least get 1 slam attack as a secondary. (not saying you're wrong, just need to be sure)
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SillyString: Somewhere in the rules is a bit stating that you can't use the same limb to make more than one type of attack, which is specifically meant to stop you from doing exactly what you're looking to do. :)
It's to keep the game balanced with numbers of attacks. It also means at higher level, some builds are going to be more or less effective. If you want a stupid amount of attacks, look at Gargoyles. You can hold a weapon(s) in two hands and attack with your iteritives there, and use the other 3 natural attacks on top of that.
Yup, just didnt know if holding 1 weapon meant losing both natural attacks, seeing as you could hold said weapon in 1 hand. Ah well, now i know :)
Yup, just didnt know if holding 1 weapon meant losing both natural attacks, seeing as you could hold said weapon in 1 hand. Ah well, now i know :)
You can use a one-handed weapon instead of one of the slam attacks and use the other slam (and any other natural attacks) as a secondary attack.
Rather than make another thread, ill quickly ask this here: if i turn into a huge earth elemental with wildshape, do i take any penalties to AC, Atk or stealth from being a larger size?
(other than what's listed here: "Earth elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +8 size bonus to your Strength, a -2 penalty on your Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus.")
"If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers."
Oh, well ok then... could I wield a weapon as an earth elemental?
Yes. The elemental subtype gives weapon proficiencies if they are human shaped.
While wildshaped doesn't give you the subtype, it does give you features such as 'hands'. So yes, you can use weapons.
Honestly, you would likely get better results just using something 2 handed rather than trying to mix weapons and natural attacks. The reduction to natural attacks make the combo do similar damage to a one handed weapon, but with two attack rolls and one of the rolls has penalties.
Using a 2 handed weapon is also great because elementals are the 'tall' reach template. Which means you have 10 or 15 foot reach. Great for a reach build. A nice 2 handed weapon gives you better damage on the AoOs.
Rather than make another thread, ill quickly ask this here: if i turn into a huge earth elemental with wildshape, do i take any penalties to AC, Atk or stealth from being a larger size?
(other than what's listed here: "Earth elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +8 size bonus to your Strength, a -2 penalty on your Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus.")
Yes, you always have the appropriate size modifiers for your size. Large is -1 to attack and AC, and -4 to stealth. Basically it's the opposite of small.
Thanks for the clarification, looks like I may be trying to avoid being larger than medium for my AC. (i know the perks from being larger outweigh the penalties, but my AC has to be high for... reasons.) Follow-up question:
Can I use Elemental body 4 to gain "immune to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks while in elemental form and gain DR 5/—." but choose to be medium size?
and if so, do I use the ability modifiers (+str, +con, +Natural Armor etc) from elemental body 1 or 4?
The wording of the spells seem unclear to me, ('cos i'm a dummy) so i figured i'd ask that too.
So notice your large earth elemental is gaining +4AC, 6-1-1. So it's still more AC than not for it.
Yes, you get those stuff regardless of size you pick.
So fun note. earth elemental 1, 2, 3 all give +2 to attack rolls, you're just getting more damage. And 1 and 2 give +5 AC and 3 give +4 AC for medium characters.
the benefits of immune to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks while in elemental form and gain DR 5/—. are dependent on the spell used, not which form, because Elemental body 4 can be used to turn into a small elemental, only gaining the stats of the small, but these special features are dependent on the spell, not size.
I do not believe this is correct. Elemental Wild Shape is based on Elemental Body and the benefits you gain are based on the size of the elemental form.Yes, you get those stuff regardless of size you pick.
"This spell functions as elemental body III, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Huge air elemental, Huge earth elemental, Huge fire elemental, or Huge water elemental. You are also immune to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks while in elemental form and gain DR 5/—."
Wording seems pretty clear that it functions as EB3, and provides you with 2 other benefits in addition (see bolded "also") being you gain the DR, bleed immunity etc and can choose to turn into a bigger form.
Just my reading of the sentences though, if someone has a FAQ or whatever that state this wasnt the intent, or something, then I defer to your smartness :D
How are you getting +35? What level is your Druid?
20
how are you getting +20 to your attack rolls?
base 22 str (+6)
BAB 15,
enhancement bonus +5 (either through amulet for natural or weapon for... weapon)
Wildshape for 8 str (+4)
feral shifter for animal focus (bull) (+3)
weapon focus (+1)
mythic weapon focus (+1)
that equals 35 right?
you took weapon focus slam?
But yeah, you're right that it totals 35 alright.
you took weapon focus slam?
Well no, technically this character doesnt exist, but you know, we're in the rules questions, so this was for science, and learning. sciency learning.
Speaking of which, any belts that increase stats dont function while wildshaped do they?
And also, do I get the Earth Mastery (Ex) ability when im an earth elemental?
Why don't you have a belt?
belts do function per polymorph rules.
He doesn't have a STR belt because the animal focus bull give +6 enhancement.
Don't forget STR tomes. at lv20 you'd want to buy an inherent + 4 or 5 to str depending if you're at an odd or even number when reaching 20.
oh neat, didnt know belts functioned in wildshape. (think i saw a thread from 2010 that discussed it that came to an incorrect conclusion over that subject)
never heard of those tomes, found them on the pfsrd now though, neat.
any idea whether or not i get Earth Mastery (Ex) as an elemental?
Nope, you only get what's listed in the elemental adjustments. SO you get earth glide
Similar note: If you wildshape as an 8th level druid and choose to be a small elemental, do you still get the full stat benefits of Elemental Body 2? I ask because...
This spell functions as elemental body I, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Medium air elemental, Medium earth elemental, Medium fire elemental, or Medium water elemental. The abilities you gain depend upon the elemental.
Air elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +3 natural armor bonus.
Earth elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength and a +5 natural armor bonus.
Fire elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +3 natural armor bonus.
Water elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +4 size bonus to your Constitution and a +5 natural armor bonus.
Notice that nowhere does it specify that you have to be a MEDIUM earth elemental to get the +4 size bonus, just that if you choose to be an earth elemental you get that bonus. So could you choose small and get +4 STR and +5 natural armor?
I was thinking the same thing earlier, and tried to ask that same question (in a very poorly worded manner). Because the wording seems unclear, but if you look at the similar plant shape stuff it has the same format but they remembered to put in the size; "Large Plant" "Small Plant" etc. I think its just an oversight it doesnt say "Medium Earth elemental" "Medium Fire Elemental" etc etc I mean the fact the bonuses are size bonuses seem to give it away a bit.
Still, love for someone to say otherwise, because apart from losing weapon size steps, choosing to be small would be much better.
Is it an abusable oversight where I could argue (like an arseface) "Well, it may be INTENDED to say Medium Elemental, but since it doesn't SCREW YOU GM I'MA BE A TINY ANGRY ELEMENTAL OF DOOM"?
With Shaping Focus those dips seem like pretty good ideas.
Thanks for the clarification, looks like I may be trying to avoid being larger than medium for my AC. (i know the perks from being larger outweigh the penalties, but my AC has to be high for... reasons.)
Actually, the AC perks can also outweigh your penalties too. It is a +6 to natural armor. And since we talked about weapons earlier... why not buy a suit of armor for your big earth elemental?
The earth elemental is basically a poor man's goliath druid. Tt is good enough to be your default wildshape- weapon use and lots of str bonus makes it that good. So why not just roll with it and get equipment for that form.
Your total -2 to AC still means you come away with +4 AC as a large elemental, and you also get con bonuses for more health.
That, and you get better defense from melee from your reach alone. A bit of lunge and pushing assault can allow you to distance control things so well that enemies only get 1 attack while you might get 7!
The earth elemental is basically a poor man's goliath druid.
what's so good about goliath druid compared to an earth elemental?
The earth elemental is basically a poor man's goliath druid.what's so good about goliath druid compared to an earth elemental?
Goliath Druids turn into giants. Giants are a type of humanoid.
When you use a polymorph and turn into the shape of a humanoid creature, your equipment is not absorbed into your body. In fact, your equipment will even size up with you.
That is why earth elemental forms are the poor man's goliath druid- they have to work around their equipment problems by buying a large sized weapon and armor, and putting it on after wildshaping. You also probably need a magic weapon crafter in the party, since you can't use most loot.
Goliath druids can just go about their day in medium size, and then turn BIIIGGG with no problems at all. They avoid the normal armor problems experienced by druids. They are the simplest to manage. You see a nice piece of armor drop from an enemy? Use it. See a nice scimitar from a medium sized opponent? Grab it.
But in comparison, of course, vanilla druids can earth glide with their earth elementals, and they still have full wildshaping options to turn into cats or birds to sneak around.
There is also some room to debate the elementals' really good DR 10/-, vs the troll's regeneration (which can stop you from suddenly dying, but maybe not being knocked out and later on killed in a TPK). I view those as about equal in most builds.
The earth elemental is basically a poor man's goliath druid.what's so good about goliath druid compared to an earth elemental?Goliath Druids turn into giants. Giants are a type of humanoid.
When you use a polymorph and turn into the shape of a humanoid creature, your equipment is not absorbed into your body. In fact, your equipment will even size up with you.
That is why earth elemental forms are the poor man's goliath druid- they have to work around their equipment problems by buying a large sized weapon and armor, and putting it on after wildshaping. You also probably need a magic weapon crafter in the party, since you can't use most loot.
Goliath druids can just go about their day in medium size, and then turn BIIIGGG with no problems at all. They avoid the normal armor problems experienced by druids. They are the simplest to manage. You see a nice piece of armor drop from an enemy? Use it. See a nice scimitar from a medium sized opponent? Grab it.
But in comparison, of course, vanilla druids can earth glide with their earth elementals, and they still have full wildshaping options to turn into cats or birds to sneak around.
There is also some room to debate the elementals' really good DR 10/-, vs the troll's regeneration (which can stop you from suddenly dying, but maybe not being knocked out and later on killed in a TPK). I view those as about equal in most builds.
Ah yes, i can see why that'd be useful. Oh, and before i get excited, you just said DR 10, did you mean DR 5?
Ah yes, i can see why that'd be useful. Oh, and before i get excited, you just said DR 10, did you mean DR 5?
Whoops, forgot my numbers. Yeah, 5.
Still rather useful. That and critical hit immunity makes it harder to get you into negative HP.
Indeed, much synergy between immunity to crits and DR. Anyway, thanks everyone for the help with the wildshaping questions :)