A Spiritualist's phantom gains a Dex/Cha bonus throughout its progression. I'm simply curious as to why it gets a Charisma bonus. They are not considered undead, so it doesn't help them with hit points. There doesn't appear to be anything that the Charisma score does to help it. So, why does it get such a boost? Why not give it progression in Constitution, so it would get more hit points, or Strength, so that it can do more on attack/damage? Honestly, the phantoms aren't that viable as combatants anyhow, so why gimp them more by giving them a useless ability progression?
|
A Spiritualist's phantom gains a Dex/Cha bonus throughout its progression. I'm simply curious as to why it gets a Charisma bonus. They are not considered undead, so it doesn't help them with hit points. There doesn't appear to be anything that the Charisma score does to help it. So, why does it get such a boost? Why not give it progression in Constitution, so it would get more hit points, or Strength, so that it can do more on attack/damage? Honestly, the phantoms aren't that viable as combatants anyhow, so why gimp them more by giving them a useless ability progression?
Incorporeal creatures get CHA to AC as a deflection bonus. This is explained in the Phantom Rules.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
wait there suposta be spirits right? why arnt they treated as actual incoporial undead and use cha for hp and not even have a con or str
Devils and Angels and Petitioners and Demons are all also spirits, but they are not undead, so it's a pretty common thing. Phantoms specifically are souls trying to resist becoming undead.
It's related to the incorporeal creature template, which doesn't have to be related to the undead template.
Actually there are many incorporeal creatures that are not undead.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's related to the incorporeal creature template, which has not to be attached to the undead template.
Actually there are many incorporeal creatures that are not undead.
Just a terminology clarification, incorporeal is a subtype and undead is a type. Wouldn't mention it normally, but I the other day I saw a lot of confusion come from someone using the word template instead of subtype so hopefully this comes across more trying to help clarity than arrogance.
|
|
It's related to the incorporeal creature template, which doesn't have to be related to the undead template.
Actually there are many incorporeal creatures that are not undead.
Basically, in pathfinder, one of Paizo's changes over DnD is how all undead are inherently evil (as if they had the evil subtype). Anytime you include what would normally just be a non-evil undead, they have to call it something else. So phantoms are basically ghosts, which in any other setting would considered undead, but for Pathfinder, they can't be undead unless they are also evil, so phantoms aren't undead basically because they aren't inherently evil.
Not critizing, just explaining.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's related to the incorporeal creature template, which doesn't have to be related to the undead template.
Actually there are many incorporeal creatures that are not undead.Basically, in pathfinder, one of Paizo's changes over DnD is how all undead are inherently evil (as if they had the evil subtype). Anytime you include what would normally just be a non-evil undead, they have to call it something else. So phantoms are basically ghosts, which in any other setting would considered undead, but for Pathfinder, they can't be undead unless they are also evil, so phantoms aren't undead basically because they aren't inherently evil.
Not critizing, just explaining.
1) Undead being auto-Evil was a thing in 3rd as well, it's not new to Pathfinder.
2) Ghosts are the exception and can be any alignment.
3) Paizo makes plenty of non-Evil ghosts.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Undead immunities (and to a lesser extent vulnerabilities) are a better reason than alignment for why Phantoms aren't undead.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Incorporeal creatures get CHA to AC as a deflection bonus. This is explained in the Phantom Rules.
I thank thee. I think I've read through those rules a couple different times, but must have continually skipped over that somehow. Definitely appreciate that clarification, and I'll try to read more closely next time!
Sorry for the thread necro, but this seems to be the closest thread to my question/clarification.
The number noted here is the increase to the phantom’s natural armor bonus when it manifests as an ectoplasmic creature, and its deflection bonus when it manifests as an incorporeal creature.
It gains the incorporeal subtype (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 301), including a deflection bonus to AC equal to its Charisma modifier.
I just want to be absolutely certain that the number in the table 1-11 adds to (some might claim "stacks") with the Charisma Mod Deflection Bonus to AC. It is not a deflection bonus in-and-of itself. So, assuming you have no other additions to the Phantom's Charisma, at 20th level, the total deflection bonus to AC would be 21 (+5 for a 21 Charisma, +16 increase from the table).