Identify Composite Longbow?

[Blue Tempest]

So I understand that you'd need to do a skill check to identify what kind of properties a magical item would have, but what about a Composite bow? Is there a check to find out exactly what the modifier for it is, or if picked up as loot would you be told exactly it's a "+2 Composite bow"?

[Java Man]

It would seem likely that the party could figure out the adjustment on the bow by passing it around and comparing the ease of drawing it.

[Gauss]

Composite bows are not magical. An appraise check should be adequate.

[caribet]

Gauss wrote:

Composite bows are not magical. An appraise check should be adequate.

Ouch! Almost none of our PCs have ranks in Appraise, but we have plenty of Spellcraft! In practice, I'd side with "pass it round the Proficient bow users..."

[ckdragons]

... or appropriate craft check would also work for mundane items. Our group just calls out "that's a masterwork composite longbow (+2 Str) radiating faint evocation magic" or "that's a normal composite longbow (+2 Str).

[Gauss]

caribet, how do you guys identify the value of items so as to get the proper sale prices?

[Wheldrake]

Gauss wrote:

caribet, how do you guys identify the value of items so as to get the proper sale prices?

We generally just hand-wave it, because the alternative is laborious note-taking to keep secret from players the value of loot. I mean, sure, without ranks in appraise they might not realize that a given jade statuette is worth 150gp, and in theory they could be swindled by an unscrupulous shopkeeper. But when they pick up dozens of items during an adventure, and might not even hit town until the next session or even a few sessions later...

I mean, if the DM doesn't come right out and say what items they've found in the loot, there's going to be a lot of time lost backtracking to figure out sale value on market day.

It's all a question of granularity. Do you & your players enjoy roleplaying their shopping sessions? Or do they just want to scribble their acquisitions quickly and get on with the adventure?

[Gauss]

Wheldrake, neither. Someone in the group always has appraise just so that we can hand-waive it. Technically not RAW either but close enough.

Alternately, value of treasure is determined at the point of sale rather than when equipment is acquired (as is typical for my group).

Either way, it doesn't matter. The question here, in the rules forum, was how to determine what +Str bonus a composite bow has to which appraise is the best method for that.

The RAW method for valuing items is also Appraise. If your group chooses not to use that that is fine, but this is the rules forum.

[Wheldrake]

Gauss wrote:

Wheldrake, neither. Someone in the group always has appraise just so that we can hand-waive it. Technically not RAW either but close enough.

Alternately, value of treasure is determined at the point of sale rather than when equipment is acquired (as is typical for my group).

But if my DM notes show that Bad Bub McGrub has a jade figurine worth 150gp and a masterwork handaxe in the false compartment of his bookcase, and Bad Bub's pals have similarly obstruse stashes of easily convertible loot, I as the DM am going to have to keep the running list of loot with the hidden values and true natures of all items and knick-knacks, rather than relying on my trusty player-slash-chartered-accountant to keep track, and quickly tote up party shares in 27.8 seconds at the end of the evening.

I fondly remember back in the 70s when we spent endless time roleplaying mercantile activities like selling loot, so as to squeeze the ultimate drops of gold from any transaction. These days, when we only play once a month (when we're lucky) we tend to choose a higher level of abstraction.

Granularity!

BTW, when was the last time your character had to complain about the size of the biting flies in the latrine? <g>

[phantom1592]

regardless of which way you chose; Craft, Appraise, Spellcraft, pass it around till someone figures it out... It would be the same way you identify that THIS chain shirt is Masterwork if it's non-magical.

I wouldn't recommend reinventing the wheel here. Honestly, I'm usually of the mind to hand wave that stuff too. If you killed 14 guards all holding a Sword, Shield and Leather armor... it's tedious to roll for all 42 of those things just to find out if they are mundane or masterwork...

[Gauss]

Wheldrake wrote:

Gauss wrote:

Wheldrake, neither. Someone in the group always has appraise just so that we can hand-waive it. Technically not RAW either but close enough.

Alternately, value of treasure is determined at the point of sale rather than when equipment is acquired (as is typical for my group).

But if my DM notes show that Bad Bub McGrub has a jade figurine worth 150gp and a masterwork handaxe in the false compartment of his bookcase, and Bad Bub's pals have similarly obstruse stashes of easily convertible loot, I as the DM am going to have to keep the running list of loot with the hidden values and true natures of all items and knick-knacks, rather than relying on my trusty player-slash-chartered-accountant to keep track, and quickly tote up party shares in 27.8 seconds at the end of the evening.

I fondly remember back in the 70s when we spent endless time roleplaying mercantile activities like selling loot, so as to squeeze the ultimate drops of gold from any transaction. These days, when we only play once a month (when we're lucky) we tend to choose a higher level of abstraction.

Granularity!

BTW, when was the last time your character had to complain about the size of the biting flies in the latrine? <g>

Word Docs and/or spreadsheets are your friend. :)

For me, I just make a note of "they got X in this location". (I make this note in the same location as I make EXP notes.)
Then, when they finally reach town, we resolve it then. (Note: for the people who actually use the loot, which is not often, I also note who has it.)

[zainale]

you should not even need appraise to identify a composite longbow from a normal long bow. they look very different from each other. just hand it to your str melee class he should be able to identify it's draw. so it is a str check.

[Gallant Armor]

Gauss wrote:

Wheldrake wrote:

Gauss wrote:

Wheldrake, neither. Someone in the group always has appraise just so that we can hand-waive it. Technically not RAW either but close enough.

Alternately, value of treasure is determined at the point of sale rather than when equipment is acquired (as is typical for my group).

But if my DM notes show that Bad Bub McGrub has a jade figurine worth 150gp and a masterwork handaxe in the false compartment of his bookcase, and Bad Bub's pals have similarly obstruse stashes of easily convertible loot, I as the DM am going to have to keep the running list of loot with the hidden values and true natures of all items and knick-knacks, rather than relying on my trusty player-slash-chartered-accountant to keep track, and quickly tote up party shares in 27.8 seconds at the end of the evening.

I fondly remember back in the 70s when we spent endless time roleplaying mercantile activities like selling loot, so as to squeeze the ultimate drops of gold from any transaction. These days, when we only play once a month (when we're lucky) we tend to choose a higher level of abstraction.

Granularity!

BTW, when was the last time your character had to complain about the size of the biting flies in the latrine? <g>

Word Docs and/or spreadsheets are your friend. :)

For me, I just make a note of "they got X in this location". (I make this note in the same location as I make EXP notes.)
Then, when they finally reach town, we resolve it then. (Note: for the people who actually use the loot, which is not often, I also note who has it.)

I keep a Google doc of all loot for my group. That way everyone can see what we have and vote to keep or sell items and to call dibs if they want the item for themselves.

My GM has us do appraise checks for some items and if we fail he gives us the value at the next town (basically hand-waiving that take 20 + research = autosucceed).

When we divvy loot, the sheet makes it easy to make sure that everyone is getting an even share of gold and loot (totaled at sell price).

[Matthew Downie]

To identify it by sight, Appraise. But if the party members can try it out, it should be pretty easy to rate by feel - is the pull lighter than the other bows they've got? Can the guy with Strength 12 draw it all the way back?

[Qaianna]

zainale wrote:

you should not even need appraise to identify a composite longbow from a normal long bow. they look very different from each other. just hand it to your str melee class he should be able to identify it's draw. so it is a str check.

I wouldn't even use a Str check. ('Amazing ... Barbie the Barbarian couldn't draw it, but Wimpy the Wizard did! Here's your new bow, Wimpy!')

[Komoda]

Since this is a role-playing game, the very best way is to role-play the scenario to its fullest.

It's so much faster if you just ask the guy before you kill him and take his weapon.

And it fits nicely within the rules.

[Cantriped]

"Excuse me Mr. Orc, that is a very nice looking bow. What is the strength rating on it?"
...
"Uh huh, and its masterwork too?"
...
"Thank you for your time Mr. Orc."
...
"Okay guys! We can kill the orc and take his stuff now!"