Legal build?

Rules Questions

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I've stumbled upon something that might make a gm cry, but I decided I want to make sure before I go around touting it, or even if it's actually all that strong.

Tengu Bloodrager
Elemental bloodline
Claw Attack alternate racial
Main-"hand" weapon: Armor spikes
Off-"hand" weapon: Bladed Boot
Level 1 feat: Two-Weapon Fighting

With 20 point buy, I can do:
after Racials
16 STR
16 DEX
14 CON
11 CHA

With bloodrage on that amounts to 20 strength, which means +5 to-hit and damage on all your attacks.
With two-weapon fighting, you get two manufactured weapon attacks at level 1 with a -2 penalty.
Because none of these weapons take up a limb your natural attacks occupy, you also get all 3 natural attacks at a -5 penalty.
With the elemental bloodline, you also get 3 swift action rounds of an additional 1d6 damage every time you hit.
What this all adds up to is at level 1 and your BaB of +1, you've got:
+4/+4/+1/+1/+1 to-hit, and a total damage of:
1d6 + 1d4 + 3d3 + 5d6 + 25 damage, if all of them hit. Against a target AC of 14 from a typical CR 1 creature, that's an average DPR of 26, or "enough to one-shot your average CR 2 creature".

Not too shabby, eh?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Most of it seems to work, but secondary natural attacks only get 0.5x Strength bonus to damage. So, instead of +25 total strength bonus on five attacks would be +16. Maybe only +13 if the 'off-hand' bladed boot gets 0.5x strength bonus also.

Ohh, good catch. The bladed boot is an off-hand weapon and is being used with two-weapon fighting, so it'll get the 0.5x strength bonus as well, so this build only gets +13 if all 5 hit.

That brings the total DPR to an average of 20.5 according to my calculations, which is still strong enough to one-shot many CR 2 creatures and most CR 1 creatures, but still.



Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Or just Kick/Kick/Claw/Claw/Bite.

Nefreet wrote:
Or just Kick/Kick/Claw/Claw/Bite.

My problem with that is attacking with an unarmed strike will provoke unless I have improved unarmed strike, so it's easier not to spend a feat on it.

It all adds up quite well for a level 1, but in the long run there are arguably better ways to do natural attack Bloodrager.

I would consider the overall effect compared to a typical Bloodrager wielding a greatsword at level 1 - with Elemental Bloodline they could easily drop a greatsword strike for over 20 damage, and they wouldn't be worrying about all the penalties to attack bonus and the need to actually get a full attack. Your build isn't bad or anything, but I wouldn't overestimate what it's doing there.

Most of the time (especially at low levels), you're generally better sticking to just the natural attacks without the manufactured ones. Three full BAB attacks all at full STR are usually going to out-perform two at -2 with one at full STR and three at -5 at half STR.

On your target AC of 14, you're hitting those three on an 8, as opposed to two on a 10 and three on a 13. I like natural weapon builds. They're fun. Very strong at low levels. Decent enough at low-mid levels. They fall off after that. But still, I like them.


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