As title says looking for best class, feats, bloodlines etc.
Could you give us a little bit more information on what you want this Necromancer to do? Necromancy isn't a monolithic profession or school of magic, and some classes (etc.) are better than others for different purposes of Necromancy.
Here is a couple of pretty good guides for necro stuff.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjRWFhSWc1ZzAzaDg/edit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hA61fDAxblBxbRXe236ZUmobf38hkB9d_foo3dE i7N4/pub
Sorry for the vagueness am looking for a few stronger zoms so maybe up to 4or 5 would be ideal
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Stagger closer, my friend. Hear my words.
Bloody.
Burning.
Skeletons.
And don't forget the void stick or scrolls of desecrate. You must always raise your precious minions in the embrace of our Pallid Princess. Only in her light can our dear children find the glutton of violence they seek. Might withstand the death throes of their enemies. Prolong the taste of death.
Remember also this. All dead must be sectioned in what one might refer to as buckets. An appropriate tool, frequently used by Urgathoa's revellers.
And you are no different. Section your dead into your buckets, your groupings of Spell (Animate Dead), Feat (Command Undead), Staff (Command Undead Spell/Staff) and Companion (Undead Master/Lord). The latter is unnecessary though I have found myself attached to the doorstopper they can provide.
Your buckets useful for expanding the quantity of dead you can control. Your feat should be used to carol the weaker dead, sectioning them off to either a single powerful corpse or a number of smaller corpses for utility.
Animate Dead will harbour the largest of our horde, either in number or power, and is our main tool of control. Raise only bloodied burning skeletons, for they are the most difficult to kill and cost effective. Always remember to raise under a desecrate, least you raise weaker undead, disappointing our Lady Dispair.
The staff refers to mostly the spell control undead, which is only limited by time and spell slots. You can place into this bucket an unlimited number of mindless undead, but you must always remain on top of refreshing the duration of the spell. You can gain quite powerful undead using this method, but it is best utilised through creating a double charge or single charge staff of Command Undead, with the addition of Cause Fear to allow for easier recharging for only a minor increase in price. This can be relatively inexpensive for what it provides us.
While I have personally chosen to study the undead and unlock the arcane might of necromancy through Undead Master, I believe our clerical devouted are more naturally suited to necromancy, even without Undead Lord (disappointing as our Lady's archetype might be), and our blessed kin of Urgathoa, the seers and soothsayers Oracle all, are charmingly potent tools of necromancy. The Bones mystery providing a steady access to powerful undead on demand, and already capable of replicating and even exceeding the cleric's power over the dead through channel powers aligning with their natural charm, and thus much harder to resist.
There are all the tools one needs for victory. You need not lift a finger. While your kin rip and tear into their meals, consider brining a table for your own gluttony. I know one cleric who chooses to make tea during the festivities. But she is a stuck up prat and I dislike her deeply.
Remember also this. All dead must be sectioned in what one might refer to as buckets. An appropriate tool, frequently used by Urgathoa's revellers.
And you are no different. Section your dead into your buckets, your groupings of Spell (Animate Dead), Feat (Command Undead), Staff (Command Undead Spell/Staff) and Companion (Undead Master/Lord). The latter is unnecessary though I have found myself attached to the doorstopper they can provide.
Your buckets useful for expanding the quantity of dead you can control. Your feat should be used to carol the weaker dead, sectioning them off to either a single powerful corpse or a number of smaller corpses for utility.
Animate Dead will harbour the largest of our horde, either in number or power, and is our main tool of control. Raise only bloodied burning skeletons, for they are the most difficult to kill and cost effective. Always remember to raise under a desecrate, least you raise weaker undead, disappointing our Lady Dispair.
The staff refers to mostly the spell control undead, which is only limited by time and spell slots. You can place into this bucket an unlimited number of mindless undead, but you must always remain on top of refreshing the duration of the spell. You can gain quite powerful undead using this method, but it is best utilised through creating a double charge or single charge staff of Command Undead, with the addition of Cause Fear to allow for easier recharging for only a minor increase in price. This can be relatively inexpensive for what it provides us.
While I have personally chosen to study the undead and unlock the arcane might of necromancy through Undead Master, I believe our clerical devouted are more naturally suited to necromancy, even without Undead Lord (disappointing as our Lady's archetype might be), and our blessed kin of Urgathoa, the seers and soothsayers Oracle all, are charmingly potent tools of necromancy. The Bones mystery providing a steady access to powerful undead on demand, and already capable of...
That presentation was awesome but any chance you cou make that more clear (stating plainly if possible) also when do you get to pick your undead templates (when raised or whatever coralates best with the corpse?) and lastly which classes where you mentioning (that part was the most unclear to me, though please list archetypes if any and class skills like domain or the oracle gift/thing can't remember its proper nAme)
Yes.
Animate Dead requires that you spend an amount of onyx gem with a value equal to the HD of all the undead you intend to raise within the area of your animate dead spell. The amount of dead you can raise with a single casting, or their total Hit Dice from the base creatures (excluding any class levels and class HD they may have possessed, which are lost once raised) is equal to twice your caster level. However, the total quantity of undead you can control with this spell is 4HD per caster level. This is an introduction to our biggest 'bucket', which I will explain later.
As an example, say we are a 5th level cleric with animate dead. Our caster level is 5, so our bucket size is 20HD and our maximum HD we can raise in a single casting is 10HD. We have an onyx equal to 250GP, which allows us to creature a zombie or skeleton of 10HD. We cannot use multiple onyx pieces for this process, even if their value equals 250gp.
We have 10 human corpses and a chuul corpse. The 250gp gem is able to create either 10 human skeletons, 9 human zombies, or a chuul skeleton. The reason we cannot create more zombies is due to zombies gaining additional hit dice based on size. This needs to be factored into creating undead.
If we wanted to apply a template to these undead, we would need to be able to raise one of these corpses for an additional amount of HD for every template we want to apply, and use an appropriate onyx for the result. This does not affect the amount of HD of undead we can control. This is only important for A) how many undead we can raise with a single casting of animate dead and B) how expensive the onyx gem must be.
In our previous example, we cannot raise a chuul skeleton with a template, as it would exceed our maximum limit (we would need to be CL 10 to apply one template, and CL 15 to apply two). But, we can raise 3 of our human corpses using the 250gp onyx into bloody burning human skeletons. We could also raise one into a fast brain-eating zombie, and an additional 2 human zombies with the same spell, using up the onyx.
If we use a desecrate spell in this area, we can double the amount of undead we can create, allowing for easier access to templates, and with a more expensive onyx gem (750gp), we could have raised the chuul corpse into a bloody burning chuul skeleton. We also then grant all undead raised a +1 hit point per HD permanently. This is even better by a shrine, doubling the bonus. Undead are also empowered in an area of desecrate, so there are offensive benefits to the spell.
I will eventually explain buckets, archetypes and useful things about necromancy. For now I must power down.
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Make a bard, with a high UMD and scrolls of create undead spells. Its the safest way.
Continuing Advice.
We already know how the Animate Dead Spell Bucket can be added to, but not what happens when we want to rotate undead out of it to free space elsewhere. When your spell bucket overflows due to adding too much HD in undead, you must relinquish control over enough undead to dip back beneath or meet your maximum HD. This can be problematic for resource investment and personal safety. Therefore, we have our alternative buckets to handle overflow.
Necromancer wizards, clerics with Command Undead and Bone Oracles with the Command Undead revelation gain access to the Feat Bucket, using the Command Undead feat to control an amount of undead whose total HD are equal to your effective cleric level. This is significantly smaller than your Animate Dead Spell Bucket, but there is a reason. A) With this feat, you can steal control of undead you have not raised, making for excellent cannon fodder, and B) you can push excess undead from Animate Dead into your Feat Bucket. Mindless undead do not get to save after the initial save, but intelligent undead receive a save each day. Utilize intelligent undead while you have them.
Then, we have the Staff Bucket. The reason this is the Staff Bucket is due to command undead not being available to clerics or oracles normally. But, with a staff of command undead and cause fear (the amount of gold is undiscernable at this time as I lack access to my full records on this presently), a cleric and oracle can spells from the staff using their caster level and Wisdom modifier, and recharge the staff with cause fear . This presents a new bucket to exploit, as command undead is a save to resist only for intelligent undead, and lasts for a day per caster level, and has no HD restrictions. Shifting undead into this bucket is simple, but using this staff to gain access to stray powerful undead can be equally as beneficial. The fact that intelligent undead are forced to obey your commands makes this also the one sure method of maintaining control of intelligent undead. However, be mindful of your charges and ensure they are topped up frequently. You have been warned.
Shutting down. . . . .
@Sheness The Hollow & AdviceDroid (whom I assume are the same person, based on your use of the same terminology):
Based on your enthusiasm for the subject matter and your command of the requisite knowledge / rules...I strongly suggest you write a guide on this very specific topic.
I would read it great interest. As would others. Hurry, before this thread is relegated to eventual obscurity.
A gravewalker hex channeler witch has some really nice options (Bonethrall and Possess Undead). Especially since the Channel Energy ability states: "The hex channeler uses her witch level as her cleric level for all other effects dependent upon channel energy (except increasing the amount of damage healed or dealt)." And the Command Undead feat is strictly based on "cleric level" and not the number of dice...
On the con side, the witch has to wait until 6th level to gain their first hex (and qualify for the Extra Hex feat)...
Here is a couple of pretty good guides for necro stuff.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjRWFhSWc1ZzAzaDg/edit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hA61fDAxblBxbRXe236ZUmobf38hkB9d_foo3dE i7N4/pub
Links to guides linkified.
The first guide is for Cleric Necromancers. Oracles of Bones or Juju (with the Undead Servitude Revelation) should be able to use it reasonably well, except that they won't be able to Channel Negative Energy for purposes other than the Command Undead feat (unless they go VMC Cleric, which isn't very good); note that Oracles have an even harder time than Clerics getting access to the Command Undead spell. (Caution: Shaman has a Bones Spirit that shares some Hexes/Revelations with the Bones Mystery of Oracles, but Undead Servitude isn't one of them.) A Spirit Guide Oracle of Bones or Juju (with the Undead Servitude Revelation) who takes the Lore Spirit with the Arcane Enlightenment Hex and who manages to meet the MAD requirements will even have access to the Command Undead spell.
The second Guide is for Wizard Necromancers. It is also usable for a Gravewalker Witch or some other type of Witch with the Plague Patron -- both options give access to the Command Undead spell; adding Hex Channeler to either one gives access to the Command Undead feat; Gravewalker adds a couple of pretty good Undead-specific options plus a pretty good ranged substitute for Deliver Touch Spells. Arcanists with the School Understanding Arcane Exploit or the School Savant archetype can also use this guide, but have to worry about delayed spellcasting progression (especially harsh when Animate Dead and its Lesser version are already late entry on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list) and low spells per day.
Clerics are better if you want to make hordes of Undead and/or do shenanigans with Channel Energy (look up Variant Channeling for rider effects -- although it has quite a number of garbage options, some of the options are pretty good).
Wizards are better if you want to do other high-powered stuff (in exchange for needing higher level spell slots to make Undead, and not having Channel Energy available for purposes other than Command Undead). PCs got you down with their anti-Undead builds? Go right ahead and tie them up with Black Tentacles, or hose them with Dazing Flaming Sphere/Fireball or (better yet) Dazing Wall of Fire/Ice, or use Illusions or Mind-Affecting spells to mess with their heads, or Summon Monsters to supplement your Undead, or even turn them into frogs. Arcanists can do the same things, and can boost their spells usefully, as well as recast failed spells without needing Pearls of Power and switch their spells on the fly, but tend to run out of gas faster than Wizards.
Witches are somewhere in between Clerics and Wizards. Hexes let them debuff without needing to use as many spells, and although they have fewer spells per day than specialist Wizards, they have more than Arcanists. If you need to make a Witch who doesn't have a great variety of spells, but who REALLY won't run out of gas, use Ley Line Guardian to get Sorcerer-style casting. This is unfortunately incompatible with the Gravewalker archetype (but does add a caster level boost), so use the Plague Patron to get the spells you need onto your list; it is still compatible with Hex Channeler.
Still needing to be explored: Weird archetypes of other classes (including Occult classes) that may be able to get their hands on Animate Dead, the Command Undead Spell, and the Command Undead feat.
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@Sheness The Hollow & AdviceDroid (whom I assume are the same person, based on your use of the same terminology):
Based on your enthusiasm for the subject matter and your command of the requisite knowledge / rules...I strongly suggest you write a guide on this very specific topic.
I would read it great interest. As would others. Hurry, before this thread is relegated to eventual obscurity.
This unit will present adequate data.
Continuing Advice.
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Undead Masters are an effective 'cheat' to make necromancers work for wizards, but also bring a variety of tools to their trade that the Undead Lord is simply incapable of replicating. Such necromancers do not even need to choose necromancy as a school, allowing for the clearly more powerful option of divination if desired. However, Improved Channel allows us to more easily maintain control over intelligent undead while we have them. We gain a fourth bucket for use with the Undead Master (and in turn, the Undead Lord), which is the Companion Bucket. This bucket can only contain a single undead creature, whose HD must not exceed our (effective) cleric level. We can apply a single template to a skeleton, such as bloody or burning, but this halves the HD limit. Largely, this is a fairly insignificant creature with a template applied. This is a renewable corpse alongside the restore corpse spell, and thus bloody is unnecessary to protect our investment like other skeletons.However, unlike most wizards, investing in a staff arcane bond is a very smart choice, and the Companion Bucket can be something of a redundant space filler. Helpful for mounts and utility undead (such as Giant Bats), however.
As a wizard, the Undead Master has a vast quantity of power at their disposal. While possessing an army as readily as any cleric, we can also utilize command undead without using a staff, and can apply metamagic feats. Additionally, the undead master will never prepare any important undead-related spells, as they are able to cast the spells they gain early from this archetype spontaneously. This allows us to prepare largely utilitarian spells, while still having access to animate dead when we require more undead.
As we already have command undead, we need easy access to desecrate. There are two choices. Voidsticks are reusable sources of desecrate that are relatively inexpensive. An alternative is simply a constant desecrate magic item, should a DM refuse to allow voidsticks, for obvious reasons as stated below.
The next method is to create a staff of desecrate like we would create a staff of command undead. This is a simple and elegant option, though more expensive than voidsticks.
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For a Cleric, we can use many of the options as above save for command undead. However, we have a great deal more flexibility with our archetypes, and we are not required to take the dedicated undead archetype. In fact, I highly recommend not doing so, and choosing one that allows you to be more capable outside of undead. Do not focus entirely on undead other than taking Command Undead and making the staff. You can, at that point, be anything you choose to be, much like a standard cleric can easily fill a variety of roles. Undead are, for you, simply another tool at your disposal.
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A Bones Oracle must take revelations to gain their necromantic powers, and it takes longer for Bone Oracles to truly match the raw creature output of the other choices. However, as a Charisma-based spontaneous caster, their Command Undead revelation is far more powerful than either of the previous options and allows it to be used as an offensive tool rather than simply as an additional bucket for overflow. Additionally, they can summon an undead minion to fight for them of a HD equal to their oracle level. Prepare good choices for your HD that suit a variety of situations, and bring out an undead that works best for a given encounter. Once the Bone Oracle reaches 6th level, they gain animate dead, and are able to now keep pace with our other options. Much like the other options, look for ways to function outside the undead. Consider taking Warsighted to become more capable at martial combat, or consider buffing and summoning to add even more bodies onto the battlefield.
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While leveling, you may think to consider the Agent of the Grave PrC. Then consider waiting for Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spell-casting feats to be released to the public before assessing that option. Once publicly available, this is then a potent option for wizard necromancers. While helpful for our other choices, the wizard gains access to desecrate as an extraordinary ability (unusual), and a few useful necromancy spells to our spell list if we need them, as well as some additional benefits, like an increased hit dice and Charisma to hit points rather than Constitution for every level beyond your first Agent of the Grave level. Any features we might lose are hardly missed and easily replaced within Agent of the Grave.
Shutting down. . . .
I forgot that the Wizard just recently received the Undead Master archetype for being a Necromancer. While this isn't strictly necessary to be a Necromancer Wizard, it does help.
In the unlikely event that you want an anti-Undead Necromancer, Wizard also recently received the Hallowed Necromancer archetype.