Do the players know that the classes exist?

[TheFluffyCrunch]

Hi guys!

In your Golarion (or home world), do you player's character know that classes (and their abilities) exist? Because I had a situation last time where my players became very paranoid of musicians (because of the bad habits of Bards and their charm-spells), and tried to resolved an investigation by hiring an Occultist with his ability to read object history!

And I felt really stupid! They were like "it's obvious people know that these mechanical systems exist role play wise". So I decided to go on improvisation for the rest of the game and it ended very well. But still, what do you think of this subject? The big issue being the gap between my knowledge of the system, and the different level of knowledge between the hard players and that one guy who still want to play Core Rogue with core feats.

My personal rule is to never say "NO" to the players. But I was confused' with the Occultist ability, as well as two of my players. The other 3 were rather proud of themselves to think of that. (We got all the hard books I just did not took the time to read Oxcultist for now)

And second question: how do we know the percentage of each class in Golarion? For example the Witch is not core, but between Ustalav, Gyrona, Irrisen... I believe that there are probably more Witches than Bards. Same goes for Warpriests, Clerics, Inquisitors and Paladin/Antipaladin. For example Norgorber requires Stealth and has probably more Inquisitors in his service than Clerics?

[GM Rednal]

1) Yes, but some are more well-known than others. For example, the existence of Wizards is basically common knowledge, even if many people have never met one. They at least know of them. Certain classes tend to be rarer in certain areas, though, and they may not necessarily refer to them by name. I mean, Witches in Irrisen, sure. But they might not say "Occultist" or "Kineticist", favoring things like "those guys who can shoot fire from their hands all day". XD

2) Officially, we don't. PC classes tend to be fairly rare in the population as a whole, though, at least in most areas. I mean, y'know, maybe some Kellid tribes are all Barbarians... but in general, PC classes aren't common. NPC classes are. It's up to you to decide exactly how common PC classes are in your game.

[James Jacobs]

They know, in the same way we know doctors and firefighters and lawyers and hobos and serial killers and authors and explorers and astronauts and ninja exist.

[Plausible Pseudonym]

Spymaster's Handbook had a sorely needed (I wish it had been in a hardcover) knowledge skill expansion called "Recall Intrigues" that provides DCs and appropriate knowledge skills to recognize and identify class abilities. So anyone with Knowledge Arcana would not only know about Bard abilities, they'd even be able to identify them being used and know what they're called. Knowledge Nature would know about Wildshape, Knowledge Religion about Paladin smites, etc.

[Threeshades]

Concerning the class names as labels, I tend to approach this on a character by character basis. A class in my mind is more of a package of abilities that has a name mainly so we can identify it as a mechanical thing and get a general idea of what the character's skillset is.

A Barbarian is just as legit in referring to himself as a fighter as an actualy Fighter, because fighting is what they do, while seeing the label Barbarian as an insult, because that's what it is when you boil it down: Just another word for savage. You could build and flavor a barbarian in such a way that he or she is an elegant courtier who just happens to fight extremely aggressively and with big weapons when forced to do that.

Going on to the in-character awareness of the classes as skill packages. Yes, a character who is reasonably well-versed in the various forms of lore will know that there are minstrels out there who use their music to weave magical effects, some warriors can fly into a battle rage that gives them more strength, and some worshippers of nature are able to call on the elements and transform themselves into animals.

[TheFluffyCrunch]

Thanks for the insight people! Good to know, as I can build the follow-up of the adventure with this in mind. However I will have to read a lot of classes that I never played before or used as NPC!

[Apupunchau]

No absolutely not. The classes are mechanical chassis on which to build your character. They are a metaconcept that the characters don't know anything about. My rogue is not a rogue he is a pirate. My fighter isn't a fighter he is a swordsmen, my ranger doesn't call himself a ranger he is a woodsmen. Some classes have a representation in the game world. A paladin may actually be a paladin. But others might not call themselves that, my paladin is a Shoanti who calls himself a sineater. I've written extensively on this Your Character Is Not Your Class. I absolutely hate when other players come to me and go but aren't you a rogue, when they think I should be able to do something. No I am not a rogue I am an archaeologist. Sure the character is built on the bones of the rogue class for mechanics but you don't have a book of mechanics in game so stop calling me a rogue.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

The game mechanics are an abstracted representation of the actual character. My character don't see themselves as piles of mechanics, any more than I do myself. The mechanics are simply extractions that exist so that we are playing a game instead of writing a novel.

[TheFluffyCrunch]

I think I'll go with the middle ground here! They know that people with such abilities exist, but a Bard could also be called a musician, a con man, a trickster or an artist. The Occultist could be an historian, a shaman or a medium!

Seems fair enough for crunch and RP.

[Simeon]

I imagine it would vary from class to class. An alchemist would likely classify themselves as such, but a barbarian likely wouldn't.

[Lord Twitchiopolis]

James Jacobs wrote:

They know, in the same way we know doctors and firefighters and lawyers and hobos and serial killers and authors and explorers and astronauts and ninja exist.

I thoroughly appreciate the spectrum covered in in this quote.

[Kerney]

Simeon wrote:

I imagine it would vary from class to class. An alchemist would likely classify themselves as such, but a barbarian likely wouldn't.

Even there there would be exceptions. My pfs Alchemist is the foremost authority on Orcish Barbecue.

[Ed Reppert]

I would think that ordinary people on Golarion think of the people we call 'player characters' as "adventurers" or "heroes" or "legends" (c.f. "Legends of Tomorrow") rather than as members of some particular "character class". I don't think the concept "character class" as we think of it exists, although the differentiation between say "wizard" and "fighter" certainly does.

[Edward the Necromancer]

The best answer is sometimes.

To be a Wizard, Cleric, or Monk for example, the person would have to have years of training and apprenticeship to gain the necessary skills to do what they do. So people falling under THESE groups DO walk around with the title of a Cleric of the Temple of Torag, or a Monk of the Shaolin Temple, or a Wizard who was apprenticed to Bigby.

Then you have people like Sorcerers, who manifest powers based on bloodlines at birth, or Oracles who are 'blessed' by the Gods. People like these would only be known of by those who had the proper knowledge.

But say you are a Fighter, Barbarian, or Rogue, some of these individuals do NOT undergo any kind of formal training, they just learn their skills by not dying. So these people probably do not go around calling themselves a fighter or a rogue, they are just Bob or Joe.

So it all depends on the class of the individual and the individual asking the the question.