PbP Community MTS II - Blood under Absalom GM Discussion Thread [spoilers]


GM Discussion

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4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

I've been running it as their standard action as well. Breaking through the window means they still have to break the window... Nor always the easiest task with dex-based parties.

Hmm


Where can I find statistics for a tavern window?

Dark Archive 3/5

I've been using a standard action. My party is almost ready to leave the tavern, they got lucky and all of them snagged a ruby in the first round, except one player who assisted someone in finding a ruby.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

I'm DMing In Your Closet wrote:
Where can I find statistics for a tavern window?

Actually, it does not look so difficult now that I am looking at the hardness rules.

My guess is that glass has an AC of 10, a hardness of 1 and 1 hit point.


So, my party actually just triggered the "readied attack VS teleportation magic" clause - my question now is, for purpose of the ensuing concentration check, how does one determine the "spell level" of a Conjurer's School Power spell-like ability?

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Jumping out the window could be a thing, and if the person simply launched themelves through it maybe 1d4 damage from the glass and the crunch onto the flagstones below.

With regard to the Conjurer cheap teleport, it looks to be a L4 equivalent spell.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Rubies

It seems the mechanics as written in the scenario are a bit funky and don't gel.

It says half the rubies will glow, but then says its 50%+5% per ruby. Following that math if I have 11 rubies then I have a 100% chance that one glows and ten don't.

Thoughts?

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

Yeah... I'm not so keen on their approximation either, but on the other hand my table had picked up 5 so far and with 50 glowing rubies thrown I suspect we'll have more than 50 between all tables when all is said and done after assuming npc groups get a few.

Dark Archive 3/5

My table grabbed five rubies in round one and is now laying the smack down on some cleric of Gorum. I don't think they've even considered leaving yet. They may end up jailed. I was hoping someone would try to use a teleport spell but it looks like my group is extremely combat heavy, and not so much utility spell heavy.

So, what are the rules if, say, my table wanted to trade another table a glowing ruby? Is that even legal?

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

There is nothing that precludes tables trading glowing rubies, indeed the later NPC interaction where they can buy a glowing ruby sort of suggests that this is a thing.

If they need rubies or need to trade, perhaps the Overseer/Discussion forum could be the spot.

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

My table has a caster using pilfering hand to snatch them up easily. One player has been taking extra time to stabilize opponents and make sure no needless blood is shed, so I'm being lenient with the guards. I think the barkeep may tip them off that it's time to go.

1/5

I suspect the 50% + 5% is designed to make sure tables who have played well are very likely to have a glowing ruby, as well as to have a spare (or two) to help other tables that didn't fare as well.

I believe my table has 5-6 rubies. They've destroyed the encounter so far. So I have no problem with rewarding them with a 75-80% chance of their individual rubies glowing.

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

Actually, it's worse than assuming 50% per ruby. With that formula, if you have 2 rubies, then there is a 55% chance of having one that glows. If you assume 50% chance for each, and roll for each individually, then you have a 75% chance of at least 1 glowing.

The appropriate formula for probability that at least one ruby glows is (1 - Pg ^ x) where Pg is the probability that a single ruby glows (in this case 50% or 0.5) and x is the number of rubies collected.

Likewise for your party, if you had 6 rubies and assumes 50% chance per ruby, then the chance of at least one ruby glowing would be (1 - 0.5 ^ 6)= 98.4%. The formula as given would be 50% + 5 * 5% = 75%.

In fact the only point at which the given formula is better than rolling each separately is if you have collected 11 rubies, giving you 50% + 10 * 5% = 100% chance of having at least one glowing ruby. If you roll separately for each ruby at 50% odds, then the chance of at least one ruby glowing would be (1 - 0.5 ^ 11) = 99.95%.

So once you've collected 11 rubies the formula as printed in the scenario gives you a 0.05% better chance of having at least one that glows. Additionally the formula as printed gives no chance of multiple glowing rubies for the purpose of sharing with other tables. It is likely that at the time of writing this special that interaction between tables was to be kept to a minimum and this is deliberate.

Additionally the formula as given may be intended to prevent the overseer from needing to track the total number of rubies collected. We have 17 tables running right now, and if every group caught 5 rubies, 85 rubies would have been collected by pathfinders alone. Each group will be facing off with at least 1 aspis group, probably multiples, who also got a glowing ruby. Assuming the encounter in the sewer and the encounter in the theater is a different aspis group (after the prior encounter eliminated the opposition) that would lead me to believe that 17 * 2 = 34 glowing rubies were collected by NPCs. Given a 50% chance of any ruby glowing, I'd assume that an additional 34 rubies were likely collected by NPCs that didn't glow, putting us up to 68 rubies collected by NPCs. This certainly doesn't jive with the description that 100 rubies were thrown, so all in all the math is pretty fuzzy around this encounter. I suspect its simply an abstraction to keep variance between tables.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

TMBTC has expanded on my point beautifully.

The points raised are the sort of thing that can really rustle my jimmies.

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

As a note that's an approximation since each time you pick up a ruby that removes one from the pool which changes the odds slightly, but it changes the final result by so little that it wont affect your d100 roll...

5/5

Should we keep a tally of where the different groups are? My table has just escaped the inn with 9 rubies, so I'd say posting the "Concluding Act 1" overseer announcement in my thread wouldn't make any sense.

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

Mine is in the process of escaping the inn with 7 rubies. I'm giving them a bit of a hard time just to keep things cinematic, but they are out for all intents and purposes.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 ****

My group is mostly still in and facing the Ronin now with 8 rubies. Yea, this opening could have been written just a tad clearer in some areas.

Luckily it all streamlines after this.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

It is a bit funky that's for sure.

On a macro level, the 'concluding Act 1' announcement still makes sense, its just that they are watching the event unfold from the comfort (and popcorn) of outside where it doesn't really impact on them - but they are aware of what has gone down.

So it will get posted up so they know what happened, they just aren't impacted by it.

***

There are a few bits and pieces in these multis that could use an edit. Will never happen though :p

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

My group is in the alley, waiting to reconnect with another member who has 5 rubies.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Backup GM's - new line up

The following are now the current support GM's for the event.

If you need to AFK or step away for a period, please let them know asap.

Magabeus

Evil Minion

Andrew Torgerud

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

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Yay, Andrew! AJ is an awesome GM. Thanks also to Evil Minion for serving as backup.

I want to say also that Magabeus is making it possible for me to prep for a con right now by taking my table for a few days. Thank you, Gerard! You are wonderful!

Hmm

Liberty's Edge 3/5

Hi all! The group i've taken over is just bout to exit with 3 rubies. I understand we're bout to head to concluding act 1, do we keep a countdown timer of sorts anywhere to keep track of these? Or is everbody just keeping check themselves with the 5min/day rate.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

I'm giving a general post of 'what next' as we go.

The run sheet was posted, but its on a 6/Day but we are on a more relaxed 5/Day pace - so where the scenario gives 35 mins for this section that works out as 7 days.

Shifty wrote:

OK, post up - over to the GM's!

You can give knowledge rolls at the start of combat.

You should now start the ACT 1 encounter brawl on pages 7-9.

We will have 7 days to complete this section.

And there's also the Overseer posts being logged:

HERE

***

In about 36 hours we will be moving to the brute squad/raid/ruby resolution section.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Overseer post up!

You are now at the end of Act 1 - Escape from the tavern encounter.
GMs have 3 days to complete the tavern escape section.

Your teams should now be trying to escape the brute squad, or if they are out you can start working out glowing gems - or the acquisition thereof.

5/5

A very conscientious healer at my table is asking if he can help with healing at the other tables.

And while on that topic, what's the final ruling on cross-table ruby sharing?

Sovereign Court 5/5

My table has one ruby and is out of the brawl. They took a rather heavy beating earlier. It's also likely they'll be without a glowing ruby as well.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

My group acquired three rubies of which two are glowing, and they are about to hand one over to the innkeeper to pass to other pathfinder groups. But since there is a mechanic in the scenario to acquire rubies from Riymor, I'm also unclear if we're allowing the cross-table ruby sharing.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

Batpony... How did you determine that two glowed? I'd love to know how you did the math for that. I am wracking my brain to figure out if there is a way of determining if you got a second or third glowing ruby.

So... The mechanic states you have 50% +5% per extra ruby of having a glowing gem. It does not state what the chances are of having other gems glow in your set, which would make trading far easier.

If I was writing this with trading in mind, I would do it as Schrödinger's Ruby. A party dumps all their rubies in a bag. The GM rolls the percentile. If they get a glowing gem, it's the first one they pull out. Then the rest of the gems are a mystery... Schrödinger rubies, able to be traded.

But that is hardly realistic, as most parties would check the bag.

So really, I am stumped here.

Hmm

1/5

@GM Hmmm. Per the written rules, the most logical interpretation tells us that it is not possible to have two glowing rubies. It's most likely Batpony did not read the rules on how to determine if the party has one glowing ruby and just assumed each ruby has a 50% chance of glowing.

That having been said, if you read the text:

Glowing ruby:
Those groups that acquired a ruby (whether they escaped or were jailed) have a 50% chance + 5% per additional ruby beyond the rst that the gem glows the following morning.

It's possible to argue that you use the 50%+5% math, for each ruby. However, under that rationale, if you had 11 rubies, everyone of them would glow, which is why it's pretty clear that each party can only have one glowing ruby.

As the scenario rules do not contemplate cross table sharing of rubies, I would advise against it unless this is something that has been authorized by PFS staff. As PbP'ers, we should seek to uphold the same rules that were/are used when this is run F2F, lest we lose support for running Specials vs PbP.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

You are right. I know Shifty suggested that we have trades, but I just don't see how given the way the Special is written. Thank you for confirming.

Hmm

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

There are a few things in this module that could do with some better editing.

Like the mob write up and the application of non-lethal damage, the ruby rules, the 'no double move' corner case etc.

With regards gathering and sharing of rubies, it was more a case of it being perfectly able to be done BEFORE any dice are rolled - we have tables with 8+ rubies and some with only 2 or 3.

With regards consistency between F2F and PbP, we're still consistent with the common practice re:rubies. I'm also taking the guidance/feedback left on the VC/VL forums between the writer/developer and the VO's that ran it. To be frank they were pretty brutal about some of the shortcomings, even I winced.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

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Also...

Relief GM system has been working well. We have already had one permanent GM swap out with a reserve taking over a table due to a GM leaving play due to a legit reason and we were able to get that managed in a matter of hours.

Similarly we have had a weekend relief cover by Magabeus which seems to have equally gone smoothly.

So please use the process if you need :)

***

Next Overseer update in ~24 hours.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

Yeah, So my interpretation of the rules was that each ruby would have that 50% + (5 x N)% chance. The way it is written, I don't interpret it limiting it to one glowing ruby per team. But I guess I can understand why, you would limit it based on the interpretation that having a lot of rubies would cause all the glow.

On the bright side, the first roll using the 65% chance suggested the ruby glows. And if there is no cross table sharing, my mistake doesn't cause too much correction. But I'll likely recton and have one ruby stops glowing.. defective ruby >.<

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

As a note, there is a local convention near me in southern California that takes place President's Day Weekend (Feb 17-20). I'll be out at that and my posting will be very very limited that weekend if existent at all, so if we are in a tight spot I may request relief cover for that weekend. If my party is flying I may just put in a brief nightly post, but if there are other GMs here in the southern California area in the same boat lets make sure we don't cause a run on relief GMs. Also if other people are going to Strategicon let me know so we can meet up!

1/5

GM Skipper wrote:
A very conscientious healer at my table is asking if he can help with healing at the other tables.

@GM Skipper/Miklos, Your player is welcome to make a cameo in my table's Gameplay thread >>Here<< to offer his services, if Shifty's OK with it.

I can't say whether the party will take him up on his offer, but a bit of socializing between tables might be a cool change of pace.

I'll let my guys know he may make an appearance.

1/5

Yours is mined wrote:
GM Skipper wrote:
A very conscientious healer at my table is asking if he can help with healing at the other tables.

@GM Skipper/Miklos, Your player is welcome to make a cameo in my table's Gameplay thread >>Here<< to offer his services, if Shifty's OK with it.

I can't say whether the party will take him up on his offer, but a bit of socializing between tables might be a cool change of pace.

I'll let my guys know he may make an appearance.

I've never heard or seen direct cross table support in any of the other Specials I've played in or GM'd. Please make sure this is entirely PFS legal before doing it. As I stated above, we don't want to start running "house rules" on the Specials and have PFS heads of state start restricting PbP Specials because we can't follow the rules.

4/5 5/5

Shifty wrote:

Also...

Relief GM system has been working well. We have already had one permanent GM swap out with a reserve taking over a table due to a GM leaving play due to a legit reason and we were able to get that managed in a matter of hours.

Similarly we have had a weekend relief cover by Magabeus which seems to have equally gone smoothly.

So please use the process if you need :)

Yes, please reach out to me if you need me to take over for any length of time. It was great fun to take over GM Hmm's table for the weekend.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Just checking in...

@GMS & YIM - I love the guys enthusiasm, but as written there isn't really an opportunity for cameos and cross table support at this point. So although we love a civic minded Pathfinder who shows solidarity with his comrades, he's a bit stuck behind the virtual wall of the scenario. In YotSL there were a couple of explicit points at which there could be cross table support, and later on it became aid tokens, but for this one its all very silent.

If one of your players has a bad time because of some horrible rolls and you believe they had some unfair outcome happen to them beyond your capability to handwave though, come plead your case and I can escalate it to the Gods for review.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Next Overseer update due in about 12 hours.

Each table should have resolved any issues with obtaining a glowing ruby by now (or about to)

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

We are now ready to run the next lot of content (Pg 10-14)

GMs have 7 days to complete this section.

NOTE: If 75% of tables report that they have completed 2 waves of creatures, we can end this section early.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
The Man Behind the Curtain wrote:
As a note, there is a local convention near me in southern California that takes place President's Day Weekend (Feb 17-20). I'll be out at that and my posting will be very very limited that weekend if existent at all, so if we are in a tight spot I may request relief cover for that weekend. If my party is flying I may just put in a brief nightly post, but if there are other GMs here in the southern California area in the same boat lets make sure we don't cause a run on relief GMs. Also if other people are going to Strategicon let me know so we can meet up!

Go ahead and reserve a relief GM now. This is exactly what they are meant for!

Hmm

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Yep - ping one per the details above (20 Jan post)

Liberty's Edge 3/5

Just for info, My group has done two waves. How's everybody at? Wondering if I should slow down the ongoing waves, I'm at a relatively low tier so the are mopping the floor of each wave within 2 rounds.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

Mine is about to finish its second. They are soooo close! One more hit will do it.

Hmm

Sovereign Court 5/5

Mine is at the second wave.

1/5

Mine should finish their first wave by the end of the weekend.

I’d guess they won’t finish the second until Wednesday, but we’ll see.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

Mine has finished wave two!

Hmm

Grand Lodge 2/5 5/5 *

Wave 2 is nearly down.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 ****

Wave 2 is done here

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