crafting weapons / armor purely with magic or of magic.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


yes i know there is the "craft item" spells. and that is not what i am talking about. i mean using spells to to craft items with magic.

like using using
Wall of Iron/X: to create the metal needed for crafting the item be it weapon or armor.
mage hand/X: to pick up and hold molten or hot iron and to hold it to an avail.
magic missile/X: used as a hammer to strike and shape the metal since it is a force spell.
burning hands/Heat Metal: to heat and reheat the metal.
cone of cold/Control Water: to quench the metal.
then some sort of spell that can create height temperatures in or around the item for several hours as to temper the metal item.

using magic to craft items the long and hard way so as to make something that is bathed in magic. or in short a mage blacksmith a non-lazy artisan mage blacksmith.

what spells would you choose to? create object does not apply and is lazy.
what level do you think he would be to be fully capable of applying his trade?


The iron from wall of iron can not be used to make things. The spell specifically says so.
Mage hand has a duration of Concentration. You can't cast another spell while concentrating to maintain such a spell. Casting another spell would end mage hand.
Magic missile can not be used to hammer anything - it can't target objects, only creatures.


instead of just nay saying how about you present other options?


zainale wrote:
instead of just nay saying how about you present other options?

The only option that comes close to what you want is Fabricate. You must still supply the raw material though and the quality of the output is subject to Craft checks.


One route would be to make magical tools. So you have a forge that channels elemental fire to the temperature the smith commands, a quenching barrel that removes heat at a controlled rate, a golem driven hammer, that sort of thing.


Java Man wrote:
One route would be to make magical tools. So you have a forge that channels elemental fire to the temperature the smith commands, a quenching barrel that removes heat at a controlled rate, a golem driven hammer, that sort of thing.

Those are just magic driven versions of standard crafting tools.

What the poster seems to want to be able to do is to craft items and weapons without lifting a finger, save for the casting of a single spell. I've already given him the closest answer for that request, above.


Wish would probably work...up to a point.


if you can take dirt fulled of iron fillings/dust and smelt it down and then turn it into a usable knife. i am sure the iron shards from an iron wall can be melted down and used in the process of making iron ingots.

Force Punch or Battering Blast or maybe Spiritual Weapon (hammer) or Crushing Hand.

I was thinking that the Floating Disk could use as an anvil.

Hydraulic Push or Drench for possible quenching.

Detect Metal for finding metal.

Mirror Polish to polish the item that's being made.

just a few more spells that i think might be useful.


zainale wrote:
instead of just nay saying how about you present other options?

Just pointing out some of the thing you were trying to do won't work.

There are still other options. Earth elemental miners, fire elementals to power your forges. Water elementals for quenching. Unseen servant can replace mage hand for lifting and holding the item (no tools necessary - the servant can only be harmed by area attacks, and a hot chunk of iron isn't an area attack).

But trying to do this with multiple spells is inefficient and needlessly complicated when all of the crafting can be done with a single 5th level spell (fabricate).

Magical tools exist. There is probably a spell to improve your Craft check.

Quote:
i am sure the iron shards from an iron wall can be melted down and used in the process of making iron ingots.

You would be wrong. The spell specifically says the iron can not be used to make other items or sold. Probably specifically because that was an abused option in 3.5 D&D.

Quote:
Like any iron wall, this wall is subject to rust, perforation, and other natural phenomena. Iron created by this spell is not suitable for use in the creation of other objects and cannot be sold.


fabricate for raw materials. but not for creating the item might be useful.

wish same as above.

using magic to create iron or pull iron from the earth. then using magic to handle and melt the iron down. then using a force spell to hammer fold and shape the metal into shape.then using a water or chill magic to instantly cool the item hardening it. then using magic to polish the raw item. then some magic heat up the metal item to a constant temperature for several hours to temper it so it won't shatter the first time it is struck. every step of the process of creating the item uses magic creating something mundane or has a faint magical aura due to how much magical energy that was used to create it.


sure you can wish for a magic item or fabricate a poorly made item. those are the quick and easy way of doing something. but to create something with magic should take time and be worth that time.


Are you trying to create a set of houserules for making extra-magic magic items, or what? 'Cause by RAW a +1 flaming longsword is a +1 flaming longsword however you make it.


zainale wrote:
sure you can wish for a magic item or fabricate a poorly made item. those are the quick and easy way of doing something. but to create something with magic should take time and be worth that time.

Fabricate can make more than poorly made items. Quality of the finished item depends on the quality of the raw materials, and items requiring a high degree of craftsmanship can be made if you also succeed on a Craft check.

I second what Fuzzy-Wuzzy said. Just what is it you are trying to do?

Are you trying to find a highly magical way to make mundane items? If so, why? Why would anyone put that much effort into making just another mundane sword?

Are you trying to find a way to forge a magical item? The standard item creation feats can cover that. Just say the process involves "magical forging" instead of however you describe normal magical item crafting (a lot of chanting/praying, magical dusts, or whatever). The Master Craftsman feat combined with the appropriate magical item creation feat also covers this - you forge the item as normal for Craft, then enchant it. Again, this can be described as all one magical forging task.


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Crafter's fortune + fabricate.

As long as you have at least a +5 Int modifier (16 Int at 1st level, +1 Int at 4th level, +1 Int at 8th level, headband of vast intelligence +2), you don't even need any ranks in the appropriate Craft skill to make masterwork items.

Unless you want to make the items without having any raw materials. Major creation can conjure a suit of armor or weapon lasting 1 hour per level (as long as it's not adamantine, alchemical silver, etc.); using crafter's fortune to make masterwork versions, as well.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If you mean using blasting spells in place of a normal forge, why? It's like trying to nail a hook on a wall for a picture frame using a sledgehammer.


Or like trying to nail a hook on a wall for a picture frame using Bigby's Crushing Fist.


because i thought the idea of creating something tangible from magic with magic would be a cool process. and though mundane something made from/with magic would/should be tainted with magical residue. any person that can manipulate magic can just form a weapon or armor out of magic *poof* "here is a force sword" *poof* "here is mage armor". but to craft something from and with magic that is tangible and spent time to shape every part of it.
effort and time is always better then instant gratification. and i thought "hey this is cool idea, lets see if people agree, and see if they better ideas which spell could be used in another way to create X outcome for each step."
no i am not wanting to craft a magical item or enchant said item. just use magic spells to create that said item.

do you think Prestidigitation can be used to sharpen or shape the blade on a dull sword?

this was meant to be a RP flavor thing


There's some oddities like this one to assemble disassembled siege weapons (that's literally all it does). You can use Telekinesis to use a hammer:

Telekinesis wrote:
An object can be telekinetically manipulated as if with one hand. For example, a lever or rope can be pulled, a key can be turned, an object rotated, and so on, if the force required is within the weight limitation. You might even be able to untie simple knots, though delicate activities such as these require DC 15 Intelligence checks.

But that's literally the same level as "I picture it in my mind, wiggle my fingers, and 6 seconds later it's done". And Fabricate still has a Craft check. Not just any Wizard schlub can make quality stuff with Fabricate. They have to spend time and effort (skill points) dedicated to their craft. Denigrating that because they can do it faster is just dumb. They're literally just saving time and wear and tear on tools to turn the raw material into the finished product. Again, how well it turns out depends on a Craft check, same as the blacksmith and their mundane tools.


zainale wrote:
do you think Prestidigitation can be used to sharpen or shape the blade on a dull sword?

No. Or more precisely, maybe, but for no more than an hour. After that it would go back to how it was before.

Quote:
Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.


darn about Prestidigitation.


Many smiths put their mark on a blade to identify it. Arcane mark can do the same.

Keen edge temporarily improves a piercing or slashing weapons critical threat range. You could probably say it also sharpens the weapon at the same time (but with no mechanical effect).

Mending won't sharpen the blade the first time, but it could possibly help maintain that sharpness (as well as fixing any minor wear). Anyone with a weapon should be doing some maintenance as part of their daily down time, and a spellcasting character with a weapon could use this spell for that purpose.


zainale wrote:
darn about Prestidigitation.

If you use presti as a poor man's telekinesis, you could use it to move a whetstone up and down the blade, sharpening it. I think that's about as close as you can get.


This is what create magic item feat does or craft skill, it is up to you decided the flavor of how it is done. if you want to describe it of a person casting fireball on the weapon 80 times to heat it up or another create water to over the heated weapon to cool it. Then so be it. It is your choice to use that flavor or, skip over it and just do the required roll. It has no baring on the end result. Note also it should also have no effect on actual spell uses per day, expect when creating magic item that actual require those spells.


I would have no objection if one of my players wanted to use spells to have a role in the crafting of an item. However, I would still require the craft roll to take place as normal.

Having had a moment to think about it, I might even require spells to be used in the crafting of a powerful magic item to add some flavour. The craft skill and perhaps spellcraft would be required if I went this route.


most the time when you use "craft magic item" you buy the masterwork item and just enchant that. i want to have a mage blacksmith character that makes crafting checks but instead of using a hammer to hammer the metal he uses magic forces to shape the metal like a hammer and anvil. the craft checks would determine whether you get a normal item or a masterwork item.


zainale wrote:
most the time when you use "craft magic item" you buy the masterwork item and just enchant that. i want to have a mage blacksmith character that makes crafting checks but instead of using a hammer to hammer the metal he uses magic forces to shape the metal like a hammer and anvil. the craft checks would determine whether you get a normal item or a masterwork item.

Actual not all items need to be masterwork, that is only weapons and armor, and there is nothing in the rules saying it has to be bought. Doing that way just make it easier, and allows you to skip a step in item creation process. you can certainly use the craft skill rules to make them. Again you just say you use a spells to forge out the master work weapon, or a normal weapon then cast masterwork transformation on it.

The system does not care how it is made either it be via magical procedure or old school weapon smiting.

They system only cares is that you Make a roll to confirm success at the times required, and that 1/3rd the cost in raw materials is used for normal crafting, and for magical properties, the cost is paid, and appropriated spells are used.

The rest is all your choice to describe, nowhere does it tell you what those raw materials are or what is used to the items magic, it can be any fluff or flavor you choose. In your case for making a sword out magic, the raw materials maybe bat poo, magic oils, coal, and unicorn farts. So long as it 1/3rd the cost of the sword. Some GM's you play with may not like this idea, only like old school, blacking smith steel production and real raw materials, and that is their choice it is their game world. Now if you are the GM you can certainly pick this as another way of doing, it. If you are not the GM then asking him if he mind you describe it this way. I don't think they are going to tell you no, so long as you paid the appropriated cost and you are in town to buy your components required.

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