Another thread has focused my attention on the extraordinarily high cost of staves. I really want to understand the math here. It's incomprehensible to me, and now I'm responsible for a game world. I hope that someone can describe any kind of cost-effectiveness for staves.
Any 16th-level wielder can cure up to a total of 1,500 HP between ten Heals. To get comparable curing from 11th-level scrolls, you'd need 14 Heal scrolls at a total cost of 23k -- an initial savings of very nearly 87k over the staff. Throw in 2 Raise Dead scrolls for over 12k and you've doubled its capabilities while still saving 74k!
The thing is, the wielder can recharge the staff "for free" -- by essentially casting one Heal a day for no immediate effect. During downtime, this really is free, but giving the party even one staff to recharge now means the GM has to allow for ten days of downtime between adventures. And in the field it can be bitterly expensive.
We can eliminate the warpriest class right away: that 6th-level slot is half of the allotment that a very wise 16th-level warpriest gets! (And with no higher-level spells yet.) Exorbitant.
But even our 22-WIS cleric likely regrets having to dedicate 1 out of only 4 6th-level slots to trying to keep the staff fresh. (Admittedly, he has a 6th-level domain spell & a handful of 7th- & 8th-level spells to turn to, as well.) As it turns out, 68 11th-level scrolls of Heal cost slightly more than the staff does & heal slightly less than 50 total staff charges @16th do. So after a whopping 40 opportunity-high-cost recharges (on top of the initial 10), our cleric can finally call his staff a financial bargain -- although there is still that opportunity cost for continuing to recharge it. Given that the cleric can buy the scrolls a bit at a time, but has to buy the staff all at once (whether buying it in the market or out of WBL loot), I think the scrolls win.
Our oracle, by contrast, has a luxurious allotment of 7 6th-level daily spell slots, along with a goodly number of 7th & 8th ones to turn to instead, so squandering one on a staff recharge is arguably cheap for her -- as long as she would naturally want to learn either Heal or Raise Dead. If she doesn't, you see, recharging this staff has now cost her a bitterly hoarded resource. Without spending other valuable resources on spells known (such as a feat or favored class bonus), she can never know more than 7 5th- & 6th-level spells combined! And then you realize that if she did learn Heal in order to recharge her staff... she can just cast Heal as the occasion arises. She doesn't need scrolls! So for Heals, the oracle's balance sheet shows a 109k savings over not buying a Staff of Life.
Now we get to using the staff for Raise Dead, with its 5k material component. Given that there isn't any obvious rule that you have to spend material components on recharges, a Staff of Life sure looks likely to be a bargain, for cleric & oracle alike. Now only 18 scrolls of Raise Dead top the cost of the Staff. Unfortunately, Raise Dead costs 5 charges, so that represents the 10 initial charges plus 80 re-charges. Oh, no, it's worse! And if you need 18 or more Raise Deads after you become high enough level to start recharging a Staff of Life, maybe something else should have changed????
How in all the world is any caster better off with the Staff of Life than native spells or scrolls?
That example was theoretical, asked because I'm starting to GM Pathfinder. The next one is rather dearer to my heart...
Now that I look at the 10th-level math, I'm thinking that I'm better off selling the staff and buying 5 scrolls of Daylight & 3 scrolls of Sunburst for a total cost of 11k. I'm getting double the staff's maximum function and still profiting almost 15k. But I don't think that I'd consider the staff a good deal even when I can recharge it at 16th level. Surely I'll have better things to do with an 8th-level spell slot!
Is there a school of wizardry that would consider a 52k Staff of Illumination worth using? (Given that wizards can write their own scrolls when they have downtime, it seems highly unlikely...)
I'd really like help in understanding the cost-effectiveness of staves.
Staves, for starters, use the CL of the wielder or the staff, whichever is higher. Some Staves have CL 20; in that light, an inexperienced wielder benefits from the increased CL when casting spells from that staff. The staff may also use the character's casting modifier (if relevant to the spell being cast) instead of the minimum casting stat required for the spell's effects, whichever is higher, as well.
Secondly, the Staves grant access to those spells to spellcasters regardless of whether the spell is on their list or not. A Wizard with a Staff of Life is pretty damn scary, especially if he's slugging Quickened Spells on top of it. Likewise, a Cleric with several powerful Wizard spells is equally scary, such as Planar Binding.
But are they worth buying? Hell no. I wouldn't buy them, even if I had a million gold to spend, as there are a ton of other things to buy besides a staff. But are they worth finding? Yes. Because they sell for a lot of money, and can give you extra utility until you decide to get rid of it.
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The advantage to staves is that you get to use both your own casting stat and caster level, rather than the one it was created at. But these are only advantages if yours are higher, which means that until level 10 or so, they aren't particularly useful, and they probably aren't cost effective until about level 15.
For characters of the appropriate level, you can think of them as recharging scrolls with better action economy, that double as weapons.
In general, if the spell slot that you are sacrificing to recharge the staff is one that you miss, you really aren't high enough level to have that staff.
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Secondly, the Staves grant access to those spells to spellcasters regardless of whether the spell is on their list or not. A Wizard with a Staff of Life is pretty damn scary, especially if he's slugging Quickened Spells on top of it. Likewise, a Cleric with several powerful Wizard spells is equally scary, such as Planar Binding.
Not unless staves have changed since I last looked them up. They're spell trigger items and that means the spell needs to be on the user's list or they have to succeed at a Use Magic Device check to spoof it.
That said, staves suffer from the pricing structure put on magic items by 3rd edition D&D (and now Pathfinder) that tried to balance everything based on relative value and, being extremely flexible about caster level, pay a premium price for it. In a campaign without sweating about wealth-by-level guidelines and magic item market values, you'll see a lot more PCs willing to keep and use staves.
Sorry, I was copy-editing my post even as you all jumped right on it for answering. Thanks for the quick answer!
Staves, for starters, use the CL of the wielder or the staff, whichever is higher. Some Staves have CL 20; in that light, an inexperienced wielder benefits from the increased CL when casting spells from that staff. The staff may also use the character's casting modifier (if relevant to the spell being cast) instead of the minimum casting stat required for the spell's effects, whichever is higher, as well.
Hmmm, maybe the problem with my examples is that none of the spells involved had to be resisted w/ a DC or had to overcome SR. A new example will follow...
Secondly, the Staves grant access to those spells to spellcasters regardless of whether the spell is on their list or not. A Wizard with a Staff of Life is pretty damn scary, especially if he's slugging Quickened Spells on top of it. Likewise, a Cleric with several powerful Wizard spells is equally scary, such as Planar Binding.
Only if they don't mind spending that much money for a staff they cannot recharge. And staves take UMD, as much as scrolls do. (Actually, potentially more, since the CL of the spell you want may be much lower than the CL of the staff.) Why not just whip the right scroll out when the occasion calls for it?
But are they worth buying? Hell no. I wouldn't buy them, even if I had a million gold to spend, as there are a ton of other things to buy besides a staff. But are they worth finding? Yes. Because they sell for a lot of money, and can give you extra utility until you decide to get rid of it.
In short, no, they're not cost-effective. I shouldn't bother including staves in my own game's loot hauls, and should dump the staff my sorceress got assigned and enjoy the proceeds rather than whittle down its value by using it.
For characters of the appropriate level, you can think of them as recharging scrolls with better action economy, that double as weapons.
Okay... You seem to be assuming that I have the right staff in my hand rather than in my Efficient Quiver. The latter may be efficient, but I'm pretty sure it takes a move action + a standard action to cast from a staff, same as a scroll. And of course, it's only a weapon if it's in hand. Do I want a melee weapon? Do I care? As a full-caster, probably not.
In general, if the spell slot that you are sacrificing to recharge the staff is one that you miss, you really aren't high enough level to have that staff.
{Re-rewritten for clarity} That's a great rule of thumb! Okay, for my personal sense of slot value, I have to be able to cast spells one level higher than the highest level spell in the staff, speaking as an oracle or sorcerer. As a cleric or wizard... I personally would never get there. And I don't think anyone would as a non-full caster. Hmmm.
Does anyone have a house rule that lets you recharge a staff at the end of your day, just before preparing spells or refreshing slots? That way, you'd know you were sacrificing a slot you didn't miss.
I'm not being clear; I need to go clear my head.
It would be only a standard action IF I have the right staff in my hand. If I don't... it's the same action economy as for a scroll.
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I have a 11 level wizard in PFS. He had as his bonded item a staff. Now that he has gotten to 11 level, I can modify my characters bonded staff as if I had the Craft Staff Feat.
I had a budget of 40,000 gp. Looking through the Core rule book I came upon the Staff of Abjuration at 80,000. It cost 40,000 to craft.....So My character now has a Staff of Abjuration.
I have used the dismissal spell in the staff frequently. There was one moment where an elder earth elemental had earth glided and popped up in the back of our party where I thought my wizard was relatively safe......Luckily my wizard was able to dismiss the earth elemental before being mashed into raspberry jam.
So, I am very happy with the staff.
That's just my two cents.
In general, staves are a great loot find or decent when you want more spell power without having to rest. You can also forgo preparing a spell that is already in the staff and have more utility (from a prepared caster perspective).
and should dump the staff my sorceress got assigned and enjoy the proceeds rather than whittle down its value by using it.
I really don't think you would ever "lose" value in the staff. If you wanted to sell it, just recharge it back up (if your GM even bothers with trying to reduce the market value based on charges).
Does anyone have a house rule that lets you recharge a staff at the end of your day, just before preparing spells or refreshing slots?
Mechanically, if you were a prepared caster and you left a slot open all day, never preparing a spell into it, there should be no reason you couldn't imbue the staff at the end of the day. I doubt the developers intended anything magical to happen at morning time. This should also translate as a spontaneous caster as well with unused slots.
What it seems like they are trying to prevent is a back-to-back recharge (end of one night, begining of next morning), and so you could probably just work out 24-hour wait on re-charging with your (hopefully reasonable) GM. I would guess that it was written it up that way because morning to morning is easier to keep up with than "24 hours periods" to recharge.
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I'm not being clear; I need to go clear my head.
It would be only a standard action IF I have the right staff in my hand. If I don't... it's the same action economy as for a scroll.
That's true. But most of the time you will have your preferred combat staff in hand, and in the cases when you don't you can draw the staff you want as a free action during movement (because it is a weapon) which you can't do with a scroll.
I've also been playing recently with a Staff Magus, who tends to fight with a staff in each hand, so that does color my view of the action economy.
And everyone, even a full-caster, should have a weapon in hand during combat if possible so that you provide flanking. You don't *want* to be in melee range, but sometimes it just happens.
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I don't like all of the staves in the Core Rules, because they're all too late in coming. I far rather like the ones that appeared in the Beginner Box. For instance, the Staff of Scorching.
4,500 gp for a CL 5 staff that has three spells. Fireball (3 charges), Scorching Ray (2 charges), or Burning Hands (1 charge) seems awesome to me, if I want to play a wizard who prepares utility spells, and has this as a backup for pure firepower.
Same cost, Staff of Curing has Cure Serious Wounds (3 charges), Cure Moderate Wounds (2 charges), and Cure Light Wounds (1 charge).
So my take is that most of the current staves are useless because they come online too late. Build your own custom staff with spells you want either infrequently but just often enough to have on-hand, or for your combat spells in bursts? Seems like a decent idea to me. But that's just my opinion.
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staves become practical after 10th level.
The Staff the Master was recently errata'd quashing some leveraging.The real power in staves is spell power economy. You can convert and store spells (or unused spells!) as something more useful. TWF for wizards is just silly.
Melee is not a winning strategy for wizards by design. It can work at low levels but past 8th the divergence between Full BAB and wiz BAB becomes painfully obvious. Hit points also diverge. Wizards do excel at not being hit (via defensive spells) but that only lasts rounds and they have to use their actions to power those abilities.
You misunderstand...my Staff Magus is not a Wizard. He is a Magus. TWF with spells is what a Magus *does*.
ETA: And for Wizards, all I meant by preferred combat Staff is the one with the spells that they like to use in combat, not that they would be hitting people with it. The fact that it is also a weapon just helps action economy.
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My lengthy opinion:
3rd edition changed that, by making magic item creation something players could invest in and do. If you were making published items, there wasn't even a need for much DM oversight, beyond "do you have time/money to do this?". You didn't need to recharge something if you could just make a new one for yourself at half price!
But quickly it was realized that the magic item guidelines were terrible, even for published items, and infinitely abusable for custom items.
WBL is a great guideline, even if I myself loosely follow it. In the old days, what magic items were found were potluck, and you could occasionally get something really powerful at low levels, but unless it's power was something you had to deal with every fight, it wasn't a problem- it wasn't like you were going to sell it and go buy a +5 sword!
Now, however, that is a very real possibility, and GM's need to be more careful for items of less immediate value. Where once a group finding a Cloak of the Bat meant they had a neat resource, now it means "eh, it's ok, but if we sold it, we could get that belt of giant strength the Barbarian has been wanting..."
This puts the Staff on the scrappy pile. It's too valuable to be found in loot at the levels it would be useful, because unless it literally has every spell the caster would want, players will want to sell it. And not unfairly, as when four players are chomping at the bit for treasure and upgrades, when a 100k magic item drops, they all want their cut!
I mean, unless it's a Staff of Life or something obviously useful to the party. So yeah, save for casters who can make their own staves, and/or take options to make using them better, if you want your party to have access to more magic, you'd be far better off giving them a pile of scrolls.
I've found staves with useful spells to be the most attractive for players. Something that isn't worth wasting a spell slot on, that you'd rather have 10 charges on that you can get back later during downtime. Overland Flight and Mage Armor are my two examples.
Yes there are plenty of issues with the pricing, partly due to how high level you need to be to create staves in the first place.
Over half of the Lesser Staves can be recharged by ANY first level spellcaster...but they cost around 8,000 gold which is more than any character gets until around level 5 (and most GM's wont let you spend almost of all your Wealth on one item), and its more likely that you wont get one until around level 9 or 10. By which time those staves are useless investments.
There can definitely needs to be a bit of price reduction on staves. Reducing the level of the Craft Staff feat would help for a start, as would only apply the two highest level spells in the staff (instead of having to tally up 3 or more spells).
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I feel the same way for things that are very useful when you need them, but aren't worth having as options every day. Things like See Invisibility, Overland Flight definitely, Spider Climb, Remove Annoying Penalty X, and the like.
By 5th level, Mage Armor is pretty trivial, and by 8th, you'd never notice the missing slot I'm sure, but that doesn't invalidate your point, Master Marshmallow, just a pedantic observation.
But at the same time, a Wand would be better for a lot of those spells, given how a Staff is costed. I know, I know, "but you can use your caster level", but a lot of those spells you don't need a long duration for. Some, like endure elements, are already 24 hours.
And really, if it's something you rarely cast, you have Scrolls as well. I know the Wizard I'm playing now has 2 Detect Invisibility and 2 Fly Scrolls at all times, and made a Wand of Endure Elements (my GM thinks overland travel should be hard. We take great joy in trivializing the problems he believes exist. He exploded when I helped the Ranger make a Wand of Keep Watch and started preparing Tiny Hut daily. Quote: "I guess there's no point in night encounters! Magic is dumb!" I resisted the urge to remind him Alarm is totally a thing...)
Staves are good because you can recharge them during downtime. Use it up during an adventure? usually most APs build in a few weeks in between, where you can recharge it. It becomes hugely cost effective then :)
I'll spare you all the math on my third example, an 81k Dragon Staff. I particularly looked at finding a caster to commission scrolls from at your CL, which is especially important for spells that go up against SR. Yes, they're still cheaper than keeping even a found staff (at half-value), but the staff is more flexible.
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Provided you can recharge a staff that you found without regularly regretting the sacrificed spell slot...
...a staff that casts spells that go up against SR is definitely worth keeping...
...otherwise, you have to weigh how much flexibility it offers vs what you would get for selling it.
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I'm just disappointed that out of all the cool kinds of magic stuff out there in a Pathfinder world, staves are so over-priced and under-powered; simple cash in hand, in fact, for most of a PC's adventuring life.
Magus Black- honestly, I think that any item that doesn't grant numerical bonuses (and some that do, like the Amulet of Mighty Fists and Bracers of Armor), especially ones that have charges, need to be looked at.
Items with multiple abilities need to be revised as well- the reason these take a price hit is because item slots are limited. Except, let's think about this. Pathfinder has what, 11 slots for Wondrous Items alone, and 2 Rings. Plus a lot of low cost effects can be made slotless (someone at Paizo shares my love of efficient Ioun Stones).
So only a crazed item crafter or very high level adventurer should really need to worry about conserving item slots.
I'd fix all of these things, but I have no idea what they SHOULD cost. Or how it would impact game balance. Not long ago I pitched reducing the cost of Bracers of Armor to my group, and I had my roommate (who is an item crafter) ask why Armor bonuses would be reduced, but not Shield bonuses.
Naturally, it's because getting the benefit of a Tower Shield without the issues of, you know, actually carrying one is a big deal, but then he was like, well, by making the Bracers cheaper, you've pretty much made mithril chain shirts obsolete.
Doh.
I find custom staves useful, but the ones available in the books are generally lacking in my view.
and should dump the staff my sorceress got assigned and enjoy the proceeds rather than whittle down its value by using it.I really don't think you would ever "lose" value in the staff. If you wanted to sell it, just recharge it back up (if your GM even bothers with trying to reduce the market value based on charges).
I'll have to ask my GM. The point is, I can't recharge it for six more levels. I'm trying to think what *I* would do as GM. Or rather, as magic shop owner, looking at this -- at the moment -- lovely quarterstaff. (It's sheathed in a layer of silver and decorated with gold and amber sunbursts, so it should be worth something, right?) OTOH, it's going to take 10 8th-level spell slots over 10 days to charge a Staff of Illumination back up, and that costs money (1,360 a charge, to be specific). I'll give my customer the 10 days of downtime, but...
(51,500/2 = 25,750) - (1,360*10 = 13,600) = 12,150 gp would be my offer.
This assumes that I can cast 8th-level arcane spells, or that I know someone who can. In a smaller settlement, that's unlikely. Now, I'm ordering 8th-level scrolls to get shipped. Ignoring the shipping cost, we have...
(51,500/2 = 25,750) - (3,000*10 = 30,000) = artistic value only.
Am I really being harsh?
{Edit to fix a really bad math glitch.}
Does anyone have a house rule that lets you recharge a staff at the end of your day, just before preparing spells or refreshing slots?Mechanically, if you were a prepared caster and you left a slot open all day, never preparing a spell into it, there should be no reason you couldn't imbue the staff at the end of the day. I doubt the developers intended anything magical to happen at morning time. This should also translate as a spontaneous caster as well with unused slots.
What it seems like they are trying to prevent is a back-to-back recharge (end of one night, begining of next morning), and so you could probably just work out 24-hour wait on re-charging with your (hopefully reasonable) GM. I would guess that it was written it up that way because morning to morning is easier to keep up with than "24 hours periods" to recharge.
I'm more cynical. I think they wanted to put the screws to you and make you sacrifice the spell slot, not knowing if you'd need it later that day or not.
Now that I think about it, requiring recharging immediately before refreshing spells isn't actually any better, since spell slots used 8 hours before the magic hour don't refresh. IF the "reasonable GM" uses that rule...
I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.
I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.
Sunbeam is divine(druid) only, if I recall correctly.
Runestaves are great. However, for bnormal staves, remember that if you can cast ONE of the involved spells, you can recharge it. Evven if the other spells are not on your list.
I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.Sunbeam is divine(druid) only, if I recall correctly.
Yes. Another obstacle in this...
I kinda love Staves and hate them.
Stacking up a Staff with many spells make them useful but at the same time they lose charges fast.
Yes, I could have a Staff with all my utility spells, or buffs, but if I use more than 1/day I'm risking running out of them, thing that would hardly happen to a wand, or even scroll because you can buy more of them.
For me Staves are great for damaging spells. As a Wizard you usually go Crowd Control/Haste/Some buffs to deal with everything.
And you can take the pleasure of some random Evocations with the Staff, not caring if you run out of charges, because you usually don't deal much damage directly.
I view a staff as an emergency pool of "oh crap" spells. I don't want to use it everyday but if I need to blow through it to save the party no biggie. But that's why I like custom staves typically with spells close to the same level and only a single (double at most) charge per spell.
Aasimar says yo.Yes. Another obstacle in this...I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.Sunbeam is divine(druid) only, if I recall correctly.
Aasimars get Daylight, not the Sunbeam spell which is several levels higher.
Runestaves are great. However, for bnormal staves, remember that if you can cast ONE of the involved spells, you can recharge it. Evven if the other spells are not on your list.
You have to however expend a spell slot equal to the highest level spell that the device can cast if I recall correctly.
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Aasimars get Daylight, not the Sunbeam spell which is several levels higher.Aasimar says yo.Yes. Another obstacle in this...I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.Sunbeam is divine(druid) only, if I recall correctly.
Feats are a wonderful thing ^w^Aasimars get Daylight, not the Sunbeam spell which is several levels higher.Aasimar says yo.Yes. Another obstacle in this...I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.Sunbeam is divine(druid) only, if I recall correctly.
All that does is give you a spell-like ability... that does not add spells to your class spellcasting list.
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All that does is give you a spell-like ability... that does not add spells to your class spellcasting list.Feats are a wonderful thing ^w^Aasimars get Daylight, not the Sunbeam spell which is several levels higher.Aasimar says yo.Yes. Another obstacle in this...I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.Sunbeam is divine(druid) only, if I recall correctly.
The preceding conversation was about getting access to that spell in particular though.
The preceding conversation was about getting access to that spell in particular though.All that does is give you a spell-like ability... that does not add spells to your class spellcasting list.Feats are a wonderful thing ^w^Aasimars get Daylight, not the Sunbeam spell which is several levels higher.Aasimar says yo.Yes. Another obstacle in this...I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.Sunbeam is divine(druid) only, if I recall correctly.
For purposes of adding Sunbeam to a a staff that otherwise uses arcane spells.
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For purposes of adding Sunbeam to a a staff that otherwise uses arcane spells.The preceding conversation was about getting access to that spell in particular though.All that does is give you a spell-like ability... that does not add spells to your class spellcasting list.Feats are a wonderful thing ^w^Aasimars get Daylight, not the Sunbeam spell which is several levels higher.Aasimar says yo.Yes. Another obstacle in this...I rather like the Staff of Illumination, but sometimes I would rather have Sunbeam on it instead of Sunburst...the line of damage vs. burst. It probably wouldn't cost much less though...too bad.Sunbeam is divine(druid) only, if I recall correctly.
*shrugs*
I'll have to ask my GM. The point is, I can't recharge it for six more levels. I'm trying to think what *I* would do as GM. Or rather, as magic shop owner, looking at this -- at the moment -- lovely quarterstaff. (It's sheathed in a layer of silver and decorated with gold and amber sunbursts, so it should be worth something, right?) OTOH, it's going to take 10 8th-level spell slots over 10 days to charge a Staff of Illumination back up, and that costs money (1,360 a charge, to be specific). I'll give my customer the 10 days of downtime, but...
(51,500/2 = 25,750) - (1,360*10 = 13,600) = 12,150 gp would be my offer.
This assumes that I can cast 8th-level arcane spells, or that I know someone who can. In a smaller settlement, that's unlikely. Now, I'm ordering 8th-level scrolls to get shipped. Ignoring the shipping cost, we have...
(51,500/2 = 25,750) - (3,000*10 = 30,000) = artistic value only.
Am I really being harsh?
{Edit to fix a really bad math glitch.}
Prices listed are always for fully charged items. (When an item is created, it is fully charged.) For an item that's worthless when its charges run out (which is the case for almost all charged items), the value of the partially used item is proportional to the number of charges left. For an item that has usefulness in addition to its charges, only part of the item's value is based on the number of charges left.
The price of staffs are not covered buy this rule. A staff with 0 charges is the same price as one with all 10.
It seems reasonable for staffs not to be covered by that rule. If you're going to buy something that expensive, you're buying it for long term use and have the capacity to charge it. Whether it currently has charges or not isn't a huge factor in the time value of its lifetime use, I wouldn't expect much of a discount in a real world situation.
1) most staffs are not worth their price. That said there are a few gems
2) Good staffs are basically an extra 3 to 10 spell slots. IE Staff of Life is effectively 10 Spell Slots with heal in it. For this reason staffs with spells you want to spam are useful
3) Staffs take time to recharge. Especially in multiples. This makes them campaign dependent
4) Staffs use your feats and CL. This mean their spells go through pen
5) Staffs cost the same regardless of opposition school. IE enervation if you banned necromancy