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darth_borehd wrote:

You are also missing the "everyman" class. The everyday person, like Arthur Dent, Alice in Wonderland, or Dorothy Gale, who somehow get involved in extraordinary things.

Arthur has no special powers. He's useless in combat. He can't disarm traps. He isn't good at stealth and probably could not sneak attack anybody. How would you make somebody like Arthur, Alice, or Dorothy?

Dragonlance and Star Wars had a noble class that came close but nothing like it exists in Pathfinder.

...isn't that a commoner?


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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Rogue Genius Games' Comedic Character Options has a Commoner archetype that would be perfect for this purpose. Basically, the character is able to designate one or more fellow party members as "best buddies" and borrow various abilities from them. In short, whatever one or more other party members can do really well, he can learn to sort of do well enough to get by.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Viriato wrote:
Classes shouldn't be about concepts, in my opinion, but about roles. Concepts are for archetypes and prestige classes. I know Paizo has to keep putting out product, but the sheer number of available classes is already redundant and getting increasingly specialized (conceptualized, if you will).

a shape shifter's role is scout and melee combatant, with also the added utility of being able to do stuff like retrieve things from lakes or other difficult terrain, as well as find ways past traps that don't involve disabling them.

yes, they're basically a magical version of a rogue, but they do this without really needing to stealth or separate from the party.

the Shifter from spheres of power does this extremely well if you are okay with 3pp. It was really fun being able to change into stuff that was needed. Shifting in SoP is based upon gaining abilities and not obtaining specific shapes. you gain base shapes like a eidolon does and add stuff on top of those, however you're limited to 1+CL/5 additional abilities with a talent being abl to give you 1 extra ability. so you end up with stuff that's pretty balanced. sure you can get pounce at level 5, but then you probably only have claws and maybe a bite if you're not going to boost your defense at all.


Bandw2 wrote:
Viriato wrote:
Classes shouldn't be about concepts, in my opinion, but about roles. Concepts are for archetypes and prestige classes. I know Paizo has to keep putting out product, but the sheer number of available classes is already redundant and getting increasingly specialized (conceptualized, if you will).

a shape shifter's role is scout and melee combatant, with also the added utility of being able to do stuff like retrieve things from lakes or other difficult terrain, as well as find ways past traps that don't involve disabling them.

yes, they're basically a magical version of a rogue, but they do this without really needing to stealth or separate from the party.

the Shifter from spheres of power does this extremely well if you are okay with 3pp. It was really fun being able to change into stuff that was needed. Shifting in SoP is based upon gaining abilities and not obtaining specific shapes. you gain base shapes like a eidolon does and add stuff on top of those, however you're limited to 1+CL/5 additional abilities with a talent being abl to give you 1 extra ability. so you end up with stuff that's pretty balanced. sure you can get pounce at level 5, but then you probably only have claws and maybe a bite if you're not going to boost your defense at all.

Except that pounce with three primary natural attacks at level 5, guessing on something with a STR boost too no less, IS very powerful compared to the two attacks at less that full BAB due to TWF penalties and partial STR mod in off hand everybody else is using.

Dark Archive

darth_borehd wrote:

You are also missing the "everyman" class. The everyday person, like Arthur Dent, Alice in Wonderland, or Dorothy Gale, who somehow get involved in extraordinary things.

Arthur has no special powers. He's useless in combat. He can't disarm traps. He isn't good at stealth and probably could not sneak attack anybody. How would you make somebody like Arthur, Alice, or Dorothy?

Admittedly, given how this is simply an archetype of the rogue, this still has usefulness but I'd like to offer to you the Everyday Hero.

A everyday hero is not a warrior or professional adventurer, just a young person who fate led into a life of adventure. Surviving on wit and skill, she gains increasing confidence as she advances in level, and this confidence allows her to succeed where others fail or give up.

Everyday heroes are very diverse and come from a great variety of backgrounds, from princesses to stable boys.
This can be said to be a player-worthy variant of the expert NPC class, though my preference for that is the Rogue Glory archetype True Professional.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Torbyne wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Viriato wrote:
Classes shouldn't be about concepts, in my opinion, but about roles. Concepts are for archetypes and prestige classes. I know Paizo has to keep putting out product, but the sheer number of available classes is already redundant and getting increasingly specialized (conceptualized, if you will).

a shape shifter's role is scout and melee combatant, with also the added utility of being able to do stuff like retrieve things from lakes or other difficult terrain, as well as find ways past traps that don't involve disabling them.

yes, they're basically a magical version of a rogue, but they do this without really needing to stealth or separate from the party.

the Shifter from spheres of power does this extremely well if you are okay with 3pp. It was really fun being able to change into stuff that was needed. Shifting in SoP is based upon gaining abilities and not obtaining specific shapes. you gain base shapes like a eidolon does and add stuff on top of those, however you're limited to 1+CL/5 additional abilities with a talent being abl to give you 1 extra ability. so you end up with stuff that's pretty balanced. sure you can get pounce at level 5, but then you probably only have claws and maybe a bite if you're not going to boost your defense at all.

Except that pounce with three primary natural attacks at level 5, guessing on something with a STR boost too no less, IS very powerful compared to the two attacks at less that full BAB due to TWF penalties and partial STR mod in off hand everybody else is using.

no strength boost, the shifter class is also 3/4 BAB, as it has spell casting(the spell casting is the shapeshifting) but can get more than just shifting.

to be clear, 1 level dip gets you the alteration sphere and CL 1, the number of stuff you can do with alteration as based on the CL the sphere is cast with, so it emphasizes you going full shifter.

it's duration is concentration, while being able to expend a sphere point to not concentrate for 1 minute. the shifter can concentrate on alteration stuff as a move action and way later a swift action.


Agathiel (Vigilante Archetype) is a sneaky shifting class from level 1 that allows you to keep your form for quite a bit. It does come with some alignment restrictions & is a tad weak for a melee class but still seems neat.

Liberty's Edge

Hey everyone! Just wanted to let you know the Expanded and Updated New Paths Compendium Hardcover is now available right here on Paizo.com!!

Expanded and Updated New Paths Compendium Hardcover

Features a dozen new classes (plus archetypes, spells, feats, and more)

Spell-less Ranger: instead of spells, the spell-less ranger relies on a host of specialized abilities, including ranger talents, nature’s healing, and a deadly stealth attack that can be used in any of his various favored terrains or against his many favored enemies.

Spirit Shaman: spirit shamans form deep connections with the spirits of nature, have a host of nature oriented abilities, and gain the guidance and aid of a powerful animal spirit guide.

Battle Scion: king of sword and spell, a heavily armed and armored warrior who can sling combat-centric spells when necessary.

White Necromancer: potent healers as well as powerful spellcasters, white necromancers embrace the the full necromantic triad, which involves tapping the essence of life as well as that of death and undeath.

Mystic Archer: dedicated to mastery of the bow, a mystic archer seamlessly blends the damage-dealing potential of the arcane with the deadly skills of an archer, using spells to enhance her natural abilities.

Theurge: supreme spellcaster whose strength lies in the ability to draw upon, combine, and manipulate the powers of magic in all its forms, whether arcane or divine.

Priest: armed only with the divine might of her god, a priest’s connection to her deity forms the very core of her being—and through this unwavering reverence, she gains her power and her strength.

Trickster: merging arcane magic, roguish skills, and a special forte ability to perform incredible acrobatics, summon a magical familiar to act as an accomplice, beguile enemies, or steal spells as they're being cast.

Skin-Changer: skin‑changers truly embrace the untamed, animalistic aspects of nature. Rather than bonding with an animal companion, the skin‑changer actually assumes the form of animals and fights with the fury of nature itself.

Tinkerer: master inventors, builders and engineers, tinkerers are experts with all manner of mechanical contraptions, clockworks, mechanical traps, and explosives, who always keep their clockwork companions close by.

Warlock: a warlock gains power, spells, and the ability to fire dread bolts of arcane force through contact with mysterious and forbidden forces, using his intelligent bond weapon as a conduit.

Savant: able to weave stories into reality, and actually assume the guise of the figures in those stories!

Hope you check it out :)

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