Hey all,
So, our GM recently backed out and being a natural story-teller and most familiar with the rules, I'll be transitioning from PC to GM. We just got started in Foxglove Manor, exploring most of the main floor and having just moved into the hallway with all the paintings when we ended our last session.
Now, I was part of the PC party for the first chunk of the mansion and now that I've got the GM book in my hands, I don't see how players are supposed to function after progressing through all the haunts. When we last played, we had pretty much given up exploring the manor due to the severe penalties we all were accumulating. A bunch of us contracted Vorel's Phage, not to mention repeated failed will saves hammering our wisdom.
How are you supposed to guide your PCs through this encounter while still leaving them in capable fighting and functioning condition? And how do you make sure they want to keep exploring despite the risks? A couple of unlucky rolls and our Cleric could be puttering about with -8 wisdom?!
As a first time GM, I'd love some advice. Thanks!
Remember that all haunts have a perception DC - let players notice the things. If you have a paladin - well they usually can handle all the haunts.
However here is where GM'ing become more of an art than a science - haunts are a cool way to give the players backstory - however when they were made (as of this adventure) they were considered more 'spooky traps' - the truth is they are a bit of both - but if you follow the evolution of haunts you find that they lean much more on the story side in new adventures - and less on the punishment.
If your players are having an easy time with the haunts - I'd let them roll as they are - if they aren't - well then I'd tone the penalties for failure down, perhaps only having every 3rd or 4th haunt be deadly.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Make sure to be very familiar with the haunt rules from the GMG:
Mechanics-wise:
-the haunt acts on initiative 10 in the surprise round
-positive energy damages it (your best bet are positive energy channels from the cleric).
But remember that the haunts are also (and when I ran that section foremost) elements of the story! They give the PCs the possibility to experience the background story of the manor and the tragedy behind the Foxglove family.
Ruyan.
there are only one or two that are deadly and those are the once were roleplay beame very important with my group at least. the haunts are first and foremost great storytelling devices
My group (my three preteen daughters and myself as GM/Paladin-party-healer) made it through without any trouble. Oh we got hit by some, but they also didn't even trigger probably more than half. It was fun, not worrisome. Remember that each one has specific triggers. Don't make them face the haunt unless they trigger it.
The other thing to remember, beyond what PneumaPilot2 mentioned, is that most of the haunts only target 1 PC out of the group, based on his/her "sin". Others, and unallocated specific ones, target anyone.
A small group (less than 4 PCs) may be triggering too many haunts per character, but that can be reined in.
I'm currently in the middle of running this as well. My party is about halfway through the manor.
The haunts for the most part should not be too tough, here's my points I have been focusing on:
#1. The only real killer haunt is the scarf. It sends the character right to -8 hit points if they fail the save (and this happened to our rogue). A cleric (or well prepared Druid) should be able to bring the character back if they heal right away. If not, I would hope the characters would have a healing potion or two. The rest can be cured later (Vorel's phage, or ability point damage, etc)
#2. The saves against the haunts are typically very reasonable (DC 15 or so). Of the haunts that the party has encountered so far about 50% of the party has made their saves. Also keep in mind (And I remember this because I made the mistake and had to retcon it), that if a haunt causes a character to lose more than 1 point of any ability they get a second save for the second point, a third save for the third point, etc.
#3. Keep in mind that the haunts are designed to weaken the party a bit, that's why they are there. A full stacked party would probably be able to obliterate the skinsaw man and his minions in the basement (especially if they manage to free Iesha), but to a weakened party it's more of a challenge.
#4. Fleeing the house should look less appealing than staying in. I really played up the creepyness of the carrionstorms outside. My party opened the door to flee and stopped dead in their tracks. One of the party attempted to speak with animals (through a crack in a window) so I got reaaaaallly creepy with the carrionstorm's responses "we want to eat you eatyoueatyoueatYOUEATYOU!" etc. My characters also left their mounts outside, and I decided to play it that the carrionstorms were far more interested in the people..but left the suggestion in the party's mind that while the carrionstorms were not eating the mounts....yet, there was no telling what they might do if disturbed. If worse comes to worse I'm going to have the carrionstorm eat one of the mounts like it was put through a blender. That should suffice to keep the party far more scared of the carrionstorms than the haunts. (This is probably playing the carrionstorms a little smarter...or more focused than they really should be, but to me the point of them is to keep the characters in the house, so I intend to use them for that effect as much as possible). I also don't want to just kill off the mounts, one is Shadowmist from Thistletop, one the fancy horse Aldern bought the target character, and one a fairly unique pig that a Gnome rides. If these specific mounts are attacked the party might go rushing outside to save them). The point is - know your party and keep them inside.
... and do an evilGM grin (TM) when they have to spend the night there, too.
Ruyan.
#4. Fleeing the house should look less appealing than staying in. I really played up the creepyness of the carrionstorms outside. My party opened the door to flee and stopped dead in their tracks. One of the party attempted to speak with animals (through a crack in a window) so I got reaaaaallly creepy with the carrionstorm's responses "we want to eat you eatyoueatyoueatYOUEATYOU!" etc. My characters also left their mounts outside, and I decided to play it that the carrionstorms were far more interested in the people..but left the suggestion in the party's mind that while the carrionstorms were not eating the mounts....yet, there was no telling what they might do if disturbed. If worse comes to...
Hmm, given the OP's situation, I would advise caution with the carrionstorms. As I read the post and perhaps reading between the lines, the players may be frustrated with their condition. The carrionstorms are meant to encourage the pc's to stay and Kaliel's description of them is appropriately creepy but they might be too much for the OP's group either from a pc survival or player morale perspective. The GM's first goal is for everyone to have fun, if the group would do better to retreat, recover and return, I would suggest letting them do that without the carrionstorms, at least the first time. A second retreat can encounter the undead birds. Or the birds can be waiting to guard the manor when the pc's return.
I might be misreading the post but the level of carnage from the haunts seems high and the cause is not clear. A lot of poor save rolls? The previous GM had haunts affect too many pc's at once? Or otherwise strengthened them? After a paladin, the next best class for dealing with haunts is a cleric (which the group seems to have) - did the cleric player understand how they work? Some positive channeling can do wonders - though the pc's might miss out on information if the haunt is taken out before it "goes off." The GM has some responsibility to translate the haunt into game mechanics the players can understand. Again, I'm making things up but if the OP provides more detail we may be able to give more helpful advice.
I might be misreading the post but the level of carnage from the haunts seems high and the cause is not clear. A lot of poor save rolls? The previous GM had haunts affect too many pc's at once? Or otherwise strengthened them? After a paladin, the next best class for dealing with haunts is a cleric (which the group seems to have) - did the cleric player understand how they work? Some positive channeling can do wonders - though the pc's might miss out on information if the haunt is taken out before it "goes off." The GM has some responsibility to...
That's my take as well, and why I mentioned that not all of the haunts usually affect all the PCs. More information would help there.
|
Yeah, it definitely sounds like the OP's group got hit with WAY too many haunts per PC, if they've got that many penalties. Each haunt should only be affecting one PC. IIRC (it's been a couple of years now), they should each have 2 haunts assigned to them in advance that they can be hurt by, plus a couple of universal haunts that can affect anyone.
#4. Fleeing the house should look less appealing than staying in. I really played up the creepyness of the carrionstorms outside. My party opened the door to flee and stopped dead in their tracks. One of the party attempted to speak with animals (through a crack in a window) so I got reaaaaallly creepy with the carrionstorm's responses "we want to eat you eatyoueatyoueatYOUEATYOU!" etc. My characters also left their mounts outside, and I decided to play it that the carrionstorms were far more interested in the people..but left the suggestion in the party's mind that while the carrionstorms were not eating the mounts....yet, there was no telling what they might do if disturbed. If worse comes to...Hmm, given the OP's situation, I would advise caution with the carrionstorms. As I read the post and perhaps reading between the lines, the players may be frustrated with their condition. The carrionstorms are meant to encourage the pc's to stay and Kaliel's description of them is appropriately creepy but they might be too much for the OP's group either from a pc survival or player morale perspective. The GM's first goal is for everyone to have fun, if the group would do better to retreat, recover and return, I would suggest letting them do that without the carrionstorms, at least the first time. A second retreat can encounter the undead birds. Or the birds can be waiting to guard the manor when the pc's return.
A valid point, and goes back to my point of know your party. If the party legitimately needs to bail you may want to come up with a way to let them. However, based on what I'm seeing with my party the haunts really aren't damaging them that much (except for the rogue), they are more frustrating the unthinking smack-it-with-a-sword-is-the-best-solution party. My sense of my group is that they were thinking of an expeditious retreat, quick healing, and then starting over full strength, which in my opinion is specifically why the author put the carrionstorms outside.
#2. The saves against the haunts are typically very reasonable (DC 15 or so). Of the haunts that the party has encountered so far about 50% of the party has made their saves. Also keep in mind (And I remember this because I made the mistake and had to retcon it), that if a haunt causes a character to lose more than 1 point of any ability they get a second save for the second point, a third save for the third point, etc.
Can you point me to the reference for that? My first encounter with haunts was the AE edition and I don't recall seeing that. It would definitely change the "scariness" of haunts...
#2. The saves against the haunts are typically very reasonable (DC 15 or so). Of the haunts that the party has encountered so far about 50% of the party has made their saves. Also keep in mind (And I remember this because I made the mistake and had to retcon it), that if a haunt causes a character to lose more than 1 point of any ability they get a second save for the second point, a third save for the third point, etc.Can you point me to the reference for that? My first encounter with haunts was the AE edition and I don't recall seeing that. It would definitely change the "scariness" of haunts...
I'm assuming you mean the reference for 1 save per point of damage?
Yeah I'm incorrect. I was thinking specifically of the dance of ruin. (which is where I screwed up).
Dance of Ruin:
The haunted character is caught up in a whirling dance and spins wildly through the room for 1d6 rounds, taking 1 point of Strength damage each round (a DC 15 Will save ends the dance early);
The Wisdom damaging haunts like Frightened child seem not to do that.
#2. The saves against the haunts are typically very reasonable (DC 15 or so). Of the haunts that the party has encountered so far about 50% of the party has made their saves. Also keep in mind (And I remember this because I made the mistake and had to retcon it), that if a haunt causes a character to lose more than 1 point of any ability they get a second save for the second point, a third save for the third point, etc.Can you point me to the reference for that? My first encounter with haunts was the AE edition and I don't recall seeing that. It would definitely change the "scariness" of haunts...
I'm assuming you mean the reference for 1 save per point of damage?
Yeah I'm incorrect. I was thinking specifically of the dance of ruin. (which is where I screwed up).
Dance of Ruin:
The haunted character is caught up in a whirling dance and spins wildly through the room for 1d6 rounds, taking 1 point of Strength damage each round (a DC 15 Will save ends the dance early);The Wisdom damaging haunts like Frightened child seem not to do that.
OK. Thanks for clarifying! I saw your post and you usually have good references so I wanted to see what I'd missed.
And honestly, it would be a good house rule to mitigate the damage of the haunts if you're looking to use them to tell a tale (as in RotRL) instead of just hammer PCs with nasty traps (other APs).
|
I'm probably echoing a lot of the others further up the thread but one of the problems I had when I ran Carrion Crown (lots of haunts) was that I misunderstood the rules for a long time about them and ran them wrong. Here a are a few things that are useful to remember about them:
1.) Surprise round. Everyone gets a chance to notice the haunt versus it's perception DC. If they destroy it before initiative 10 (assuming it's not a fast haunt) then no encounter.
2.) Immediately allow knowledge religion checks (free action) once someone notices and points it out to the party. Assuming someone gets a decent check versus the haunt they know that positive energy (channels, lay on hands, cure light wounds) while within the area of the haunt causes it damage.
Maybe not it's destruction element without a higher DC.
3.) All haunts are fear effects. That means that paladins are immune to all but their secondary effects, fighters get their bravery bonus to saves and bards can give a bonus with their inspiring songs.
4.) As I saw someone else mention the haunts in the Misgivings are usually focused on a single party member. Maybe drop a hint to the party that they need to keep an eye on each other and attempt to grapple if someone gets glassy eyed and starts doing something stupid.
If they are really low on stats at the moment due to haunt effects I would maybe throw in a small cache of potions including some lesser restoration potions... maybe even throw in a haunt siphon for good measure.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks for the info, guys! Ran the session with a lot of your notes and suggestions and it went great! It was a tough way to jump into the roll of GM, since it seems the Misgivings is pretty widely accepted as the least favourite part of Rise of the Runelords, but I added some extra flavour from the character's backstory to keep them intrigued and invested in in continuing the investigation.
Thanks again, my players ended up loving the session!
|
|
since it seems the Misgivings is pretty widely accepted as the least favourite part of Rise of the Runelords,
???
As a GM who has been running RotR for almost 3 years now (we're just starting the 6th part), I'd have to say that it's one of my favorite parts. I think my party really liked it too. There were two scary moments when PCs failed saves (once was the suicide compulsion, and the other was a front liner failing the misogynistic haunt and almost killing the party sorceress), but nobody died, and a fun time was had by all.
since it seems the Misgivings is pretty widely accepted as the least favourite part of Rise of the Runelords,???
As a GM who has been running RotR for almost 3 years now (we're just starting the 6th part), I'd have to say that it's one of my favorite parts. I think my party really liked it too. There were two scary moments when PCs failed saves (once was the suicide compulsion, and the other was a front liner failing the misogynistic haunt and almost killing the party sorceress), but nobody died, and a fun time was had by all.
Yea, I'd second that motion. Not sure that I've seen anything on these boards that suggests that Book 2 is "the least favourit part" of Rise. For my part it's a very good example of game mechanics supporting story narrative. My group had a good time though my players are experienced and pretty comfortable thinking on their feet (though they had no exposure to haunts until Misgivings.)
Yea, I'd second that motion.since it seems the Misgivings is pretty widely accepted as the least favourite part of Rise of the Runelords,???
As a GM who has been running RotR for almost 3 years now (we're just starting the 6th part), I'd have to say that it's one of my favorite parts. I think my party really liked it too. There were two scary moments when PCs failed saves (once was the suicide compulsion, and the other was a front liner failing the misogynistic haunt and almost killing the party sorceress), but nobody died, and a fun time was had by all.
I third it. The Misgiving are a highlight of RotRL. the players loved it's creativity
Older threads may give the impression that Book 2 is "least liked" because of
but I am not aware of any particular dislike for the Misgivings.