Does anyone have a thought or four on Paladin Codes? One size does not fit all anywhere else, and friends run differing codes that better fit the deities of their games, including some LE types.
Lawful good, losing class features for evil acts, and punish those who harm or threaten innocents, etc. are stock, but do you add or subtract?
A friend has assigned an Archetype to each paladin using deity and is hammering 'better' Codes that are closer to the deity in question. The only one I've seen was a justice oriented Code that emphasized LAW over good. The Paladins are LN for the most part, seriously Law focused with a 'mercy' list bereft of the Good ones, Lawful ones being added. While the Order is not 'good, there are no Benefits for Evil types. Another player called the Code 'Lawful good Hardass' and it fits.
Inner Sea Gods and Inner Sea Faiths give codes for certain deities.
Does anyone have a thought or four on Paladin Codes? One size does not fit all anywhere else, and friends run differing codes that better fit the deities of their games, including some LE types.
Lawful good, losing class features for evil acts, and punish those who harm or threaten innocents, etc. are stock, but do you add or subtract?
A friend has assigned an Archetype to each paladin using deity and is hammering 'better' Codes that are closer to the deity in question. The only one I've seen was a justice oriented Code that emphasized LAW over good. The Paladins are LN for the most part, seriously Law focused with a 'mercy' list bereft of the Good ones, Lawful ones being added. While the Order is not 'good, there are no Benefits for Evil types. Another player called the Code 'Lawful good Hardass' and it fits.
A Paladin is defined by being Lawful and Good. Codes should always start with these two base assumptions.
A Paladin is defined by being Lawful and Good. Codes should always start with these two base assumptions.Does anyone have a thought or four on Paladin Codes? One size does not fit all anywhere else, and friends run differing codes that better fit the deities of their games, including some LE types.
Lawful good, losing class features for evil acts, and punish those who harm or threaten innocents, etc. are stock, but do you add or subtract?
A friend has assigned an Archetype to each paladin using deity and is hammering 'better' Codes that are closer to the deity in question. The only one I've seen was a justice oriented Code that emphasized LAW over good. The Paladins are LN for the most part, seriously Law focused with a 'mercy' list bereft of the Good ones, Lawful ones being added. While the Order is not 'good, there are no Benefits for Evil types. Another player called the Code 'Lawful good Hardass' and it fits.
I can understand that, though exceptions should be looked into. I came from 5E D&D when I came back to Pathfinder and talked to my GM about building a paladin that was more LN than LG and he was on board with it provided I start building a code and prove that he is human and flawed and is not completely evil or heartless.
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Honestly, I kind of wish they would drop the Lawful component, as it no longer really means what it used to back when there was a reason for it. Lawful Good used to sort of represent the best or highest Good, where Lawful indicated a degree of order, but also meant that the individual believed in acting for others benefits rather than the individuals. In a lot of ways, Lawful behavior was very similar to Good behavior while Chaotic behavior (it's all about the individual and ability to do what I want) was very close to Evil behavior, mainly different only in the motivations and intentions behind the behaviors.
Combined, it's more appropriate to PF's NG, which believes in doing the most good for the most people, but is less concerned with following unrelated/unimportant things like the legitimacy of an evil executive power or irrational conflicts of interest.
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Honestly, I kind of wish they would drop the Lawful component, as it no longer really means what it used to back when there was a reason for it. Lawful Good used to sort of represent the best or highest Good, where Lawful indicated a degree of order, but also meant that the individual believed in acting for others benefits rather than the individuals. In a lot of ways, Lawful behavior was very similar to Good behavior while Chaotic behavior (it's all about the individual and ability to do what I want) was very close to Evil behavior, mainly different only in the motivations and intentions behind the behaviors.
Combined, it's more appropriate to PF's NG, which believes in doing the most good for the most people, but is less concerned with following unrelated/unimportant things like the legitimacy of an evil executive power or irrational conflicts of interest.
No that was a 4th edition thing, we don't talk about that.
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That. Especially, they fall for a single willful Evil act. Not a Chaotic one
It also makes for some really odd concepts where a Paladin (or other LG type) has more in common with LE Outsider types and for whatever reason is super against CE Outsider types, despite the LE ones generally being a much larger and present threat. LE represents the cruelest and strictest interpretations of laws, rules, and discipline, typically used as a means to enforce things on others, while CE represents doing kind of whatever you want, respecting strength (as far as leadership), and surviving no matter what. It seems that a Paladin should be a heck of a lot more concerned about folks that misuse authority through the system and grind others down than folks that are more ruthless in how they gain power.
That's also part of the reason I wish they would switch it officially to NG only, as then you could have smaller factions within Paladins that focused on being against the Worldwound style CE threats, the Cheliax/Thrune style LE threats, and sort of everything else.
A paladin is lawful and good. If you want a holy warrior that is not lawful and good, there is one archetype and other classes available.And since those other classes are also available for LG holy warriors, maybe we should just get rid of the obviously unnecessary Paladin class ;-)
I actually like the Paladin class for what it is, and part of me would actually rather see a few of the other classes go and their options redistributed among Paladins and/or Battle Clerics. Now, I know that's not going to happen, but I personally think it would be better to go that route.
But, something you also have to consider is that not everyone has access to or uses all of the books and material for their games, so if a group is just using the CRB, the Paladin has a lot less competition.
If you really want a historical knight's code, I recommend getting your hands on a copy of a book on Chivalry written by Leon Gautier. It's in google books, or should still be.
I'm quite fond of the Old Code from Dragonheart as a good, baseline paladin code.
I've often said that if you're playing a pally, as long as you follow this code, you'd be hard-pressed to go wrong.
And, as an added bonus, it's actually simple and quite easy to remember.
A knight is sworn to valour.
His heart knows only virtue.
His blade defends the helpless.
His might upholds the weak.
His word speaks only truth.
His wrath undoes the wicked.
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Honestly, that is one of the best Paladin Codes I've seen. I tend to use it, too. I'm also fond of the code from Kingdom of Heaven:
“Be without fear in the face of your enemies.
Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death.
Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong – that is your oath.”
<PIMP SLAP>
"And that is so that you remember it"
Here's my go to paladin code in my homebrew setting
"A Paladin supports and defends Good and opposes Evil.
A Paladin is a Leader in righteous combat.
When it is necessary to fight, the Paladin will seek to guide and inspire his comrades, taking a forward position in the battle and facing the foe boldly. A Paladin does not hide from his foe or sneak about.
A Paladin is a Protector.
He will seek to prevent harm to the innocent and will place himself at risk in order to accomplish this if need be.
A Paladin is Just and works to promote and enforce Justice and the Law.
If a Paladin does not agree with a law, he must still respect it and should work to change it rather than disregarding it. The only exception to this is if the Paladin believes the law to be truly Evil. In this instance, the Paladin must follow the dictates of his conscience.
A Paladin is Honest.
He will not lie or otherwise seek to deceive a person. A Paladin does not cheat or seek to take unfair advantage in his dealings with others.
A Paladin is Loyal.
He does not betray his God, his liege-lord, his order, his family, or his friends.
A Paladin is Holy.
He seeks to do that which pleases his God in all manners of the Code, and knows that the purity of his soul has a profound impact on the abilities the Gods bless him with.
While it is not required that a Paladin worships insert God name here above other gods, he ignores the wishes of his patron God at his peril. Serving another God or Gods is possible for a Paladin provided that the path that he follows does not work against Good or Justice. It is not appropriate for a Paladin to work toward the ends of a dark aspect since the goals of such are not in keeping with what is Good and Just.
No that was a 4th edition thing, we don't talk about that.Honestly, I kind of wish they would drop the Lawful component, as it no longer really means what it used to back when there was a reason for it. Lawful Good used to sort of represent the best or highest Good, where Lawful indicated a degree of order, but also meant that the individual believed in acting for others benefits rather than the individuals. In a lot of ways, Lawful behavior was very similar to Good behavior while Chaotic behavior (it's all about the individual and ability to do what I want) was very close to Evil behavior, mainly different only in the motivations and intentions behind the behaviors.
Combined, it's more appropriate to PF's NG, which believes in doing the most good for the most people, but is less concerned with following unrelated/unimportant things like the legitimacy of an evil executive power or irrational conflicts of interest.
It was also a WOW and Everquest D20 thing as well.
No that was a 4th edition thing, we don't talk about that.
*shrugs* I unashamedly love 4E, and our group had a lot of fun playing it. We're only here because WotC started putting out really objectively bad supplemental material before letting 4E unceremoniously crash and burn (I understand why they did it, but unfortunately for them, it just caused our group to migrate to the very company that they developed 5E to try and compete against.)