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Help with Paladin's Codes


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew

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Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ok,
Still working on my home brew world. I have 9 gods that would have Paladins (6 true deitys, and 3 demigods). I would like each of them to have a unique Paladin's code, so players who want to play a Paladin have an idea of what is expected of them in game. I don't like to do 'gotchas' but I will slap a Paladin down hard if they break their Paladin's code.

As a preamble, let me say that I view a Paladin's code as specific to the god they worship. So, for example, a LG god is going to have a balanced code, good and law in equal portions. A NG god is going to focus more on good and less on law for their paladins. A LN god is goign to focus more on law than good for their paladins. I'll give details of the gods in the next post or two, just wanted to get this out of the way first.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Alignment/Name/Domains/Subdomains
LG/Listrana Redblade(Human)/Glory, Good, Law, Nobility/Angel, Archon, Heroism, Honor, Leadership
LG/Gormen Greatforge(Dwarf)/Artifice, Fire, Good, Law, Strength/Archon, Ash, Construct, Inevitable, Resolve, Toil
LG/Sobet(Dragon)/Good, Law, Magic, Nobility, Strength/Arcane, Archon, Azata, Divine, Leadership, Resolve
NG/Ambergriss(Human)/Good, Healing, Travel, Water/Azata, Restoration, Resurrection, Trade, Oceans
NG/Sincala Horandris(Elf)/Air, Good, Magic, Sun, Weather/Arcane, Angel, Cloud, Day, Divine, Seasons
NG/Sithana Nehandris(Elf/Drow)/Charm, Good, Healing, Liberation, Protection/Archon, Defense, Freedom, Love, Purity, Restoration
LN/Kom Thunderhoof(Centaur)/Animal, Law, Plants, Weather/Fur, Growth, Inevitable, Seasons, Storms
LN/Alcinea(Human)/Death, Destruction, Law, Repose, Travel/Ancestors, Archons, Catastrophe, Exploration, Inevitable, Souls
LN/Bast(Feline)/Animal, Community, Knowledge, Law, Protection/Archon, Defense, Family, Fur, Home, Memory


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Listrana Redblade is a human demigod. She's probably the epitomy of a Paladin herself. She was a LG human Knight, chivelrous to a fault, and a terror on the battlefield. She died while defending her home city during a massive siege by an alliance of monstrous humanoids. However, she was so determined to defend her city, she refused to die for 7 days after taking an arrow through her eyeslit. She fought off wave after wave until she was sure her replacement was ready to take her place, and then she keeled over. Even then though, she couldn't stop fighting, and she self ascended to demigod status. She's the only current god who has done this, the rest who ascended did so through means the elder gods know, and she frankly makes the rest of the gods nervous (even the other LG ones). Her big thing would be defending innocents.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Gormen Greatforge is the father of all dwarves. He has an issue with elves because the drow god lured some of his dwarves to go down into the earth with the original drow (thus forming the duerger). He's a very serious stodgy type (despite his wife being a party happy lusty drunken lush that hits him with frying pans when he's too stodgy). He believes in hard work and pride in a job well done. He hates choas and evil because they are destructive rather than constructive. Most of his Paladins would be crafters on the side, just because. They'd also be somewhat tolerant of things like spousal infidelity and drunken excesses, mainly because Gormen doesn't give his wife grief over such things (except when she takes up with some lousy elf).


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sobet is the mother of all good dragons. She's a giant female dragon with metallic scales. She's also the mother of all neutral dragons, although she doesn't talk about that much, since their father is her brother Hectet. She's not human at all. All the humanoid gods descended from a pair of gods who died long ago, the first gods. Sobet did not, she's all her own, and refuses to tell where she came from. Her hide is made up of gold, silver, copper, brass and bronze scales. She has followers who are of different races other than dragons though, and thus has paladins (Granted, most of them are half-dragons or have dragon blood in their veins). She's very prim and proper. She believes that being good is hard, and that's a good way to figure out what is good vs evil. If it's easy, it's probably evil. She expects her followers to be strong and be an example to others. Her thought processes are alien, of course, since she's not human. Evil dragons would be killed on sight, neutrals only if they insist on attacking the helpless.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ambergriss is a demigod, the half-god offspring of Alcinea and a river spirit (her one attempt at romance). He's the only good ocean/river god, the true deity in charge of oceans is a monstrously evil person, so despite being a demigod he's got a very loyal following amongst sailors. He tries the best he can to help travellers, but he's not powerful enough to go up against the one-eyed Ocean God, so the best he can do is try to mitigate things and keep old One-Eye from noticing ships on the ocean. He's a very mellow and laid back fellow. He doesn't have a lot of Paladins, he's a bit too mellow for them, but a few do follow him. He has an inside with his mother Alcinea though, and can often talk her into releasing souls she's claimed to be resurrected (In my world, resurrection is difficult, as you have to negotiate with Alcinea, goddess of death and judgement, or whatever god has a greater claim to a soul than her to get them back).


Any "gotcha!" moments are kinda the GMs fault.

I let my players know well ahead of time what would piss off their deity. Most of the time it's just plain common sense unless there is something that would be unique to the church. (Not cutting your hair for example)


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sincala is the Mother of Elves, and the first elf. Her and her husband (who was a drow, and whose jealousy of how she was worshipped more than him drove the rift that created the elf/drow schism) were the first elves. They also had two divine children, one drow and one elf. She's very much a healer type, who brings sunshine and happiness. She's not rigid enough to be good at discipline, she'd rather nurture than punish. She very much is against evil though, and mourns for her lost husband and children (the drow). She's a druidic goddess, but has some elven paladins, and even a few non-elf ones.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Scott_UAT wrote:

Any "gotcha!" moments are kinda the GMs fault.

I let my players know well ahead of time what would piss off their deity. Most of the time it's just plain common sense unless there is something that would be unique to the church. (Not cutting your hair for example)

Sort of why I want to work out the codes ahead of time.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sithana is the daughter of Sincala and the Drow God. She's the one who stopped her father from killing her mother, and who scarred his once handsome face. She's a drow, but a good one. She's sort of a cross between her mother and her father. She's very martial in combat, but very nurturing/healing type outside combat. She's very much about freedom, it's one of her main tenets. She considers those who take the freedom of choice away from others to be the very worst of evil. She despises racism, and will have a follower of any race, so long as they adhere to her tenets. However, anyone professing to follow a drow god is going to get an arched eyebrow by 90% of the population, at the very least.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Kom Thunderhoof is a druidic god of nature. He's a centaur, a really big and dangerous one. More of a Ranger though, if you look at his abilities and preferences. Like Sobet, he's not one of the gods descended from the first gods, he's a nature god that sprang into being separately. He's only a demigod though. His big thing is that what looks like chaos in nature is actually perfectly understandable order. He doesn't like true chaos because it is anathema to natural law, which he says works quite well within itself, despite how those of lesser wisdom might think it's chaotic. He'd be much more concerned with natural order and law than goodness, with his paladins. Most of his paladins would be nature warden types.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Alcinea is the goddess of death and judgement. She's a human god, and somehow all souls go to her after death for adjudication, even those of non-humans. She then bundles them up based on what they did in life and sends them off to where they belong. She's LN so she will just as calmly send souls to a god or goddess she hates if they belong to that god as she will one she likes. She does seem to have a weakness for her son Ambergriss, sometimes relenting and releasing a soul back to the mortal world at his behest. All resurrections that occur once a soul has reached her require her approval, which is very hard to get. The stronger the soul is, the faster she is likely to process it (in other words, the higher the level of character who dies, the faster she is likely to collect their soul). She's the ultimate judge, and her paladin's would favor law over good at all times.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Bast is the goddess of felines, mother of all cats great and small and sentient and non. She doesn't have a husband, which often begs the question of how she managed to be the mother of all cats, but nobody that's asked her has ever gotten a good answer out of her. She believes in family first, and knowledge. There's a reason why they say curiosity kills the cat. Her paladins tend to be investigators more than anything else, going everywhere and learning what they can of evil and chaos in order to send back word to protect their loved ones and charges. She has an unfortunate turn-over rate. Like Sobet and Kom, she's not descended from the First Gods, and refuses to talk about them. There's rumors she predated the first gods. She hates the idea of 'the ends justify the means' and she'll just as serenely strike down a LG paladin who uses that argument as she will an Anti-Paladin. She considers both to be rabid animals.


mdt wrote:
Alcinea is the goddess of death and judgement. She's a human god, and somehow all souls go to her after death for adjudication, even those of non-humans. She then bundles them up based on what they did in life and sends them off to where they belong. She's LN so she will just as calmly send souls to a god or goddess she hates if they belong to that god as she will one she likes. She does seem to have a weakness for her son Ambergriss, sometimes relenting and releasing a soul back to the mortal world at his behest. All resurrections that occur once a soul has reached her require her approval, which is very hard to get. The stronger the soul is, the faster she is likely to process it (in other words, the higher the level of character who dies, the faster she is likely to collect their soul). She's the ultimate judge, and her paladin's would favor law over good at all times.

I like this one. It sounds like her Paladin might have a serious problem with intelligent undead and, to a lesser extent, unintelligent undead. They would probably have a huge vendetta against murders.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ironicdisaster wrote:
mdt wrote:
Alcinea is the goddess of death and judgement. She's a human god, and somehow all souls go to her after death for adjudication, even those of non-humans. She then bundles them up based on what they did in life and sends them off to where they belong. She's LN so she will just as calmly send souls to a god or goddess she hates if they belong to that god as she will one she likes. She does seem to have a weakness for her son Ambergriss, sometimes relenting and releasing a soul back to the mortal world at his behest. All resurrections that occur once a soul has reached her require her approval, which is very hard to get. The stronger the soul is, the faster she is likely to process it (in other words, the higher the level of character who dies, the faster she is likely to collect their soul). She's the ultimate judge, and her paladin's would favor law over good at all times.
I like this one. It sounds like her Paladin might have a serious problem with intelligent undead and, to a lesser extent, unintelligent undead. They would probably have a huge vendetta against murders.

Yes, absolutely! She is enraged by undead, and they are anathema to her. I should have specified that. Her Paladin's code is going to have a big chunk of it be about undead, necromancy, and murderers. Murderer's send people to her before she's ready for them, they are usurping her authority.


mdt wrote:
Ironicdisaster wrote:
mdt wrote:
Alcinea is the goddess of death and judgement. She's a human god, and somehow all souls go to her after death for adjudication, even those of non-humans. She then bundles them up based on what they did in life and sends them off to where they belong. She's LN so she will just as calmly send souls to a god or goddess she hates if they belong to that god as she will one she likes. She does seem to have a weakness for her son Ambergriss, sometimes relenting and releasing a soul back to the mortal world at his behest. All resurrections that occur once a soul has reached her require her approval, which is very hard to get. The stronger the soul is, the faster she is likely to process it (in other words, the higher the level of character who dies, the faster she is likely to collect their soul). She's the ultimate judge, and her paladin's would favor law over good at all times.
I like this one. It sounds like her Paladin might have a serious problem with intelligent undead and, to a lesser extent, unintelligent undead. They would probably have a huge vendetta against murders.
Yes, absolutely! She is enraged by undead, and they are anathema to her. I should have specified that. Her Paladin's code is going to have a big chunk of it be about undead, necromancy, and murderers. Murderer's send people to her before she's ready for them, they are usurping her authority.

Also, I would imagine that older souls would be worth more to her because of their experience, so if there's a housefire and you can carry either father or son, but not both, son gets saved first. It makes it a little cold, but she doesn't really HAVE to sugar coat it. You don't have to pay homage to this Goddess. You don't have to like her, or even acknowledge that she exists. You'll go to her anyway.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ironicdisaster wrote:
mdt wrote:
Ironicdisaster wrote:
mdt wrote:
Alcinea is the goddess of death and judgement. She's a human god, and somehow all souls go to her after death for adjudication, even those of non-humans. She then bundles them up based on what they did in life and sends them off to where they belong. She's LN so she will just as calmly send souls to a god or goddess she hates if they belong to that god as she will one she likes. She does seem to have a weakness for her son Ambergriss, sometimes relenting and releasing a soul back to the mortal world at his behest. All resurrections that occur once a soul has reached her require her approval, which is very hard to get. The stronger the soul is, the faster she is likely to process it (in other words, the higher the level of character who dies, the faster she is likely to collect their soul). She's the ultimate judge, and her paladin's would favor law over good at all times.
I like this one. It sounds like her Paladin might have a serious problem with intelligent undead and, to a lesser extent, unintelligent undead. They would probably have a huge vendetta against murders.
Yes, absolutely! She is enraged by undead, and they are anathema to her. I should have specified that. Her Paladin's code is going to have a big chunk of it be about undead, necromancy, and murderers. Murderer's send people to her before she's ready for them, they are usurping her authority.
Also, I would imagine that older souls would be worth more to her because of their experience, so if there's a housefire and you can carry either father or son, but not both, son gets saved first. It makes it a little cold, but she doesn't really HAVE to sugar coat it. You don't have to pay homage to this Goddess. You don't have to like her, or even acknowledge that she exists. You'll go to her anyway.

Not really even cold. If you stop and think about it, most good characters would carry out the younger first, especially children, over the elderly. In fact, the elderly would be kicking and screaming (unless they were evil) if you tried to pull them out first.

Given a 90yo woman, a 30 year old woman, and a 10yo girl, and only having time to pull one from the fire, almost everyone would pull the girl.


mdt wrote:
Ironicdisaster wrote:
mdt wrote:
Ironicdisaster wrote:
mdt wrote:
Alcinea is the goddess of death and judgement. She's a human god, and somehow all souls go to her after death for adjudication, even those of non-humans. She then bundles them up based on what they did in life and sends them off to where they belong. She's LN so she will just as calmly send souls to a god or goddess she hates if they belong to that god as she will one she likes. She does seem to have a weakness for her son Ambergriss, sometimes relenting and releasing a soul back to the mortal world at his behest. All resurrections that occur once a soul has reached her require her approval, which is very hard to get. The stronger the soul is, the faster she is likely to process it (in other words, the higher the level of character who dies, the faster she is likely to collect their soul). She's the ultimate judge, and her paladin's would favor law over good at all times.
I like this one. It sounds like her Paladin might have a serious problem with intelligent undead and, to a lesser extent, unintelligent undead. They would probably have a huge vendetta against murders.
Yes, absolutely! She is enraged by undead, and they are anathema to her. I should have specified that. Her Paladin's code is going to have a big chunk of it be about undead, necromancy, and murderers. Murderer's send people to her before she's ready for them, they are usurping her authority.
Also, I would imagine that older souls would be worth more to her because of their experience, so if there's a housefire and you can carry either father or son, but not both, son gets saved first. It makes it a little cold, but she doesn't really HAVE to sugar coat it. You don't have to pay homage to this Goddess. You don't have to like her, or even acknowledge that she exists. You'll go to her anyway.
Not really even cold. If you stop and think about it, most good characters would carry out the younger first, especially...

Oh, I just meant that it would be colder than if the goddess was all "The children are our future," like a teacher, as opposed to the farmer, who would say "That one's not ripe yet."


My idea of a simple code would be
Take no life unready for taking.
Children are empty vessels, allow them to grow and be filled.
All necromancy is foul and robs me of what is my due. Stamp it out relentlessly.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Alright, first pass at Alcinea's Paladin Code, since she got the most attention so far....


  • Those that raise undead are an abomination and should be sent to their punishment in my courts as swiftly as you can.
  • Show no mercy to the undead, for they an abomination to me and a perversion of the natural cycle of life and death.
  • Protect those who cannot protect themselves, when I am ready for them, they will be mine.
  • Suffer not a murder to live, for he has usurped my authority.
  • Mortals will war, this is their right. Those who take up arms give up their right to live their alloted time.
  • Thou art a judge, fear not giving out thy judgements, but make thy judgements fair and balanced.

So, very much more centered on law and anti-undeath. Alcinea's Paladin's are church appointed judges, handing out low justice per the laws of the land. So long as the laws are not morally repugnant nor violating other tenets, they'll uphold them. If taxes are 50%, well, that's distasteful, but it's the law. If the law is your body get's turned into an undead after you die, then that's an abomination of a law and they'll strike it down. Someone killed in war is not murder, except for unarmed civilians, as those who take up arms give up their right to live out the time Alcinea appointed for them.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ironicdisaster wrote:


Oh, I just meant that it would be colder than if the goddess was all "The children are our future," like a teacher, as opposed to the farmer, who would say "That one's not ripe yet."

LOL, actually, she's the sort of goddess of death who'd say the latter, but mean both. :) She'd say "That one's not ripe yet.", but actually mean both that the child isn't ready to be taken, and that it's future is not yet fulfilled. :)


I like death goddesses for some reason. In my own world, I have two, the goddess of death, and the goddess of getting dead.


This is the thread from the RPG site where we came up with a lot of stuff for the Paladin's code in my game. It evolved a good deal from the first post. Maybe you can get some inspiration from it.

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=19506&highlight=paladin%27s+ code


cranewings wrote:

This is the thread from the RPG site where we came up with a lot of stuff for the Paladin's code in my game. It evolved a good deal from the first post. Maybe you can get some inspiration from it.

Aforementioned thread

Fixed it for you.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
cranewings wrote:

This is the thread from the RPG site where we came up with a lot of stuff for the Paladin's code in my game. It evolved a good deal from the first post. Maybe you can get some inspiration from it.

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=19506&highlight=paladin%27s+ code

Great stuff, thanks. I think I can swipe some of that stuff and get another 2-3 done.


mdt wrote:
Listrana Redblade is a human demigod. She's probably the epitomy of a Paladin herself. She was a LG human Knight, chivelrous to a fault, and a terror on the battlefield. She died while defending her home city during a massive siege by an alliance of monstrous humanoids. However, she was so determined to defend her city, she refused to die for 7 days after taking an arrow through her eyeslit. She fought off wave after wave until she was sure her replacement was ready to take her place, and then she keeled over. Even then though, she couldn't stop fighting, and she self ascended to demigod status. She's the only current god who has done this, the rest who ascended did so through means the elder gods know, and she frankly makes the rest of the gods nervous (even the other LG ones). Her big thing would be defending innocents.

She would probably be the biggest on duty to your country. She would abhor cowards, and one of her followers would hold off an entire horde of enemies to prevent others from coming to harm.

Code ideas:
Never leave a man behind.
Always hold the line
The proper place for my faithful is in the breach.

Her Paladins would often become Stalwart Defenders


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
mdt wrote:
Listrana Redblade is a human demigod. She's probably the epitomy of a Paladin herself. She was a LG human Knight, chivelrous to a fault, and a terror on the battlefield. She died while defending her home city during a massive siege by an alliance of monstrous humanoids. However, she was so determined to defend her city, she refused to die for 7 days after taking an arrow through her eyeslit. She fought off wave after wave until she was sure her replacement was ready to take her place, and then she keeled over. Even then though, she couldn't stop fighting, and she self ascended to demigod status. She's the only current god who has done this, the rest who ascended did so through means the elder gods know, and she frankly makes the rest of the gods nervous (even the other LG ones). Her big thing would be defending innocents.

First swipe at Listrana's (probably the most restrictive)


  • A Paladin shall act with compassion, maintain true humility, champion justice and foster hope.
  • A Paladin shall purge from all feelings of hatred, arrogance, selfishness and despair from themselves.
  • A Paladin shall follow the laws of the land, so long as doing so does not violate his code or tenets.
  • A Paladin shall seek to overthrow savagery and chaos wherever it may be found.
  • A Paladin shall defend the weak against the strong.
  • A Paladin shall protect the innocent from the depraved.
  • A Paladin shall not suffer evil, save when they are redeeming one who has fallen, but they shall not suffer evil if that evil is not truly repentant. When asked for mercy, a Paladin shall extend it, but only to one who has not already lied in seeking mercy.
  • A Paladin shall not suffer those who are the essence of Evil, such as Demons and Devils, for they are the enemy of all that is good.
  • A Paladin shall maintain themselves and all their belongings, for they are a symbol of Good and Law, and a slovenly Paladin is an insult to all they stand for.
  • A Paladin does not Lie, Cheat or Steal. They do not take deceitful advantages. A Paladin shall maintain their honor at all times. A Paladin knows the difference between war, which requires a tactical mind, and chivalry, which requires a higher standard.
  • A Paladin does not overindulge in any vice, be it drugs, alcahol, or sex. This is not to say that a Paladin may not drink, take medicine, or have sex. But a Paladin must always hold themselves to a higher standard and not behave as a gutter snipe.
  • A Paladin does not seek excess wealth, only seeking that which he needs to fulfill his duties. A Paladin is to be charitable to the poor.

Quite a lot of restrictions, but then again, Listrana is the LG god of Paladins, and she has the highest standards. She was a field commander, so she doesn't insist on stupid tactics, that would waste the lives of men under you. However, if it's down to single combat, then flanking or throwing sand in the eyes is right out. If it's a war, then those restrictions fall off. She doesn't insist they be celibate or non-drinkers, but she won't have drunks or drug abusers or lushes either.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ironicdisaster wrote:


She would probably be the biggest on duty to your country. She would abhor cowards, and one of her followers would hold off an entire horde of enemies to prevent others from coming to harm.

Code ideas:
Never leave a man behind.
Always hold the line
The proper place for my faithful is in the breach.

Her Paladins would often become Stalwart Defenders

Yep, Listrana is the most restrictive and martial. The idea of leaving a man behind though, not sure about that. Mainly the tactics of war may require it. However, she would have problems with a coward leaving someone to cover the rear.


"Bast is the goddess of felines" - curious, that's the first time I've heard of Bast, or any other feline-based deity, as LN. Sekhmet perhaps, as a leonine avatar of divine vengeance, but Bast? Interesting... I can imagine there being various parables that illustrate the tenets and values of the faith. Rather than providing direct answers, they also serve as riddles, keeping the minds of Bast's chosen sharp.

- Keeper of the home: above all else, be loyal to your home and family. Like a mother to her children, let no sacrifice be too great, nor no discomfort too troubling.

- Vigil in the darkness: as the cats hunt the rats that nibble at corners and spread filth, ensure that your community is not undermined by corruption, decadence or strife. Be vigilant and wary against threats, both overt and covert

- Flame of the hearth: keep up the spirits and energy of those around you, and do not let despair or gloom claim them. When the people around the fireplace are happy and content, the family thrives. Strive to strengthen your home and kin, and spread love and harmony among its members. Do not indulge in excesses, but neither take away from life what makes it worth living.

- Grace of the keeper: your body and mind are Bast's surest weapons, keep them fit. Do not allow them, or those of your companions, to lapse into weakness, for this will dishonor you and the goddess alike. May your excellence be an example to others.

- Soul of lion, skin of housecat: be humble and do not boast of your own deeds. There is no shame or deceit in arriving unheralded, or observing unnoticed. Let the blessing and prosperity of your home and kin be your pride, husband it and let it speak for you - to those who would listen.

- Velvet paw, reaving claw - To your friends, be gentle. To your rivals, be respectful. To your true foes, be merciless. Should they not repent, let their blood be upon them.

- Judgement of the shining eyes - In the end your duty is to all, high and low. Do not scorn neither the high with your lack of courtesy, nor the low with your lack of compassion. Never let your pride blind you to the needs and value of others.

In general, I imagine it to be a fairly unusual paladin order... rogues, urban rangers, and bards might be just as attracted to it as paladins, inquisitors perhaps even more than any of the above, and multiclasses would be common among paladins. Paladins of Bast should be discreet, inquisitive, and relatively free-thinking - in fact, other paladins may consider them deceitful. They would often present an unassuming facade to the world, both because they consider foolish pride among the greatest of vices (it hinders their work, encouraging envy and conflicts and thus leading to discord and strife) and because they focus on working in their home community rather than providing an impressive front. Undead - especially those masquerading as humans, evil members of the community, or frankly anyone who would harm their kin and friends has good reasons to fear them. At least, when they know of them - there is a saying that the most accomplished paladins of Bast can only be known by the spirit and seeming blessing of the community they are in.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Shaman wrote:

"Bast is the goddess of felines" - curious, that's the first time I've heard of Bast, or any other feline-based deity, as LN. Sekhmet perhaps, as a leonine avatar of divine vengeance, but Bast? Interesting... I can imagine there being various parables that illustrate the tenets and values of the faith. Rather than providing direct answers, they also serve as riddles, keeping the minds of Bast's chosen sharp.

Yeah, I've never understood the idea of Bast being Chaotic. If you look at cats, they're actually very lawful. They follow specific routines and codes. Bast doesn't go willy nilly all around, she goes in very specific places and in very specific ways. She's wise and inscrutible.

And riddles are a very lawful type of thing, they follow rules, they have rhyme and meter.

The Shaman wrote:


- Keeper of the home: above all else, be loyal to your home and family. Like a mother to her children, let no sacrifice be too great, nor no discomfort too troubling.

- Vigil in the darkness: as the cats hunt the rats that nibble at corners and spread filth, ensure that your community is not undermined by corruption, decadence or strife. Be vigilant and wary against threats, both overt and covert

- Flame of the hearth: keep up the spirits and energy of those around you, and do not let despair or gloom claim them. When the people around the fireplace are happy and content, the family thrives. Strive to strengthen your home and kin, and spread love and harmony among its members. Do not indulge in excesses, but neither take away from life what makes it worth living.

- Grace of the keeper: your body and mind are Bast's surest weapons, keep them fit. Do not allow them, or those of your companions, to lapse into weakness, for this will dishonor you and the goddess alike. May your excellence be an example to others.

- Soul of lion, skin of housecat: be humble and do not boast of your own deeds. There is no shame or deceit in arriving unheralded, or observing unnoticed. Let the blessing and prosperity of your home and kin be your pride, husband it and let it speak for you - to those who would listen.

- Velvet paw, reaving claw - To your friends, be gentle. To your rivals, be respectful. To your true foes, be merciless. Should they not repent, let their blood be upon them.

- Judgement of the shining eyes - In the end your duty is to all, high and low. Do not scorn neither the high with your lack of courtesy, nor the low with your lack of compassion. Never let your pride blind you to the needs and value of others.

Nice,

Let me adjust it slightly...


  • Protect - Be like lioness with cubs, guard the pride with all. It is the all, and nothing else matters.
  • Guard - Like small ones, hunt the night for the filth that threatens pride. Dangers come in the night, rarely by the light. But keep nose to wind, just in case. Don't sleep with rats and snakes.
  • Spirit - Like cubs, be spirit of the pride. Be like ray of light on cloudy day. Keep pride happy and healthy. Keep belly full but not fat. Pride is what make life good.
  • Groom - Clean is good, clean is fast, clean is dangerous to those that hunt your pride. Don't be fat, don't be lazy, don't let claws dull or eyes laze.
  • Courage - Be not a coward. Death is not the end, it is the beginning. Sell life dearly if you must, but it is better to laugh at fear, and laugh at enemy as enemy cowers. Laugh harder if enemy destroy self.
  • Caution - Roar only when ready to fight. Tell not your tales, pride will tell tales if tales are worthy. When asked, answer without answering, and without revealing. Let asker be wise enough to learn answer.
  • Love - Love pride, and bask in love of pride.
  • Respect - Show rivals respect, accept respect of rivals.
  • Death - Enemies deserve death, let enemy death be on enemy head. If enemy become friend, more respect for all.
  • Judgement - Keep mind sharp. Watch all, learn all, know all. Know where head belong, and bare throat when due. Remember who to bare throat to. Give due when due, expect due when due.

What do you think? I think Bast would need a more 'alien' code, that had to be deciphered a bit. A Paladin of Bast would be much more likely than any other to 'lie' through misdirection, and also to run from a fight, in order to pull the enemy into a bad situation. If the enemy puts themselves in a bad situation from trying to do evil, well, that's their problem isn't it? The Paladin of Bast seeks to protect the pride, the community. A Paladin of Bast is more concerned with towns and hamlets than countries, with friends and family than political entities.


Ironicdisaster wrote:
cranewings wrote:

This is the thread from the RPG site where we came up with a lot of stuff for the Paladin's code in my game. It evolved a good deal from the first post. Maybe you can get some inspiration from it.

Aforementioned thread

Fixed it for you.

Thanks (:

I just realized that thread was kind of long. I think this was my final post that got used for my game. I know that tithing is unpopular on these boards because money = power in Pathfinder. My game isn't coin dependent so it doesn't matter, but its something to think about for other people.

The Paladin’s Powers

Paladins are holy warriors that intentionally develop a connection to the plane of positive energy. They’re connection to this energy is developed through rigorous meditation and maintained by a purity of heart. It is not a gift of the divine – it is earned through hard work and contemplation in the same way a wizard earns his magic.

Paladins must be aware of their thoughts and their actions, maintaining a life of righteousness if they wish to keep a strong connection to the positive energy plane. This doesn’t require adherence to a strict code of conduct as much as it requires the paladin to adhere to his conscience – a conscience heavily ingrained for it is the source of his power. The paladin’s inner witness, his angel of thought, must be in accord with the rest of his being. Due to the influence of the positive plane, no doubt that conscience will be very demanding.

Many paladins are members of a knightly order, and will follow a code of chivalry (Song of Roland). While this isn’t necessary to maintain their powers, it is a natural part of many paladins’ characters, and necessary to maintain their social standing.

While a paladin’s abilities aren’t tied to a specific code of conduct, the following evil acts automatically corrupt a paladin and cause him to lose his powers:

Passing Up a Chance to Save Someone, within Reason
Torture (though he can use strong arm and intimidation tactics)
Stealing or Lying out of Self Interest
Killing or Maiming a Defenseless Foe
Killing or Maiming a Surrendering Enemy

Paladins are known more for what they DO rather than what they abstain from. When searching for the right course of action, a paladin must understand that what is done for the cause of good cannot be foul -- what is foul cannot serve good. A paladin being true to his conscience will perform the following deeds whenever he has the opportunity:

Donate at least 10% of his Personal Wealth to Charity
Protect the Innocent, the Meek, and the Helpless
Stand Up for the Cause of Goodness
Set an Example for others with Pious Behavior
Attempt to Redeem the Fallen

A paladin will always attempt to redeem an evil person, unless the fair law of the land demands justice. Even if a paladin’s prisoner is guilty of crimes that warrant the death penalty, a paladin will not exact that revenge unless he has been given the authority to by the law of the land. There are limits to what a paladin has to give quarter to. While a paladin will always side with mercy and compassion for common evil, the evil of wizards, sorcerers and demons is so vile and dangerous that there isn’t any way to take them into custody safely. A wizard that surrenders is most likely just waiting for the dawn when his strength recharges and he can unleash hell.

While there is a great deal of restrictions on a paladin’s behavior, there are many things he can get away with and not suffer a loss of spiritual power:

Lie when Absolutely Necessary
Break the Law when Absolutely Necessary
Run Away from a Fair Fight
Keep a Fair Share of the Spoils of Battle (if no known rightful owner exists)

Keep in mind that what you might think of as absolute necessity and what a paladin thinks of as absolute necessity may not be the same thing. A paladin will not lie, cheat or steal because he is cold, hungry, tired, afraid of deserved punishment, for fear of economic repercussions, to avoid the just prosecution of the law or to improve his own circumstances in any way because it is important to the Paladin to be an example to others: for weaker men will at best do less than whatever the paladin does. If a man of average character sees the paladin steal to save someone’s life, he will steal for something less.

The Twelve Paladin Virtues

Faith
Charity
Justice
Sagacity
Prudence
Temperance
Resolution
Truth
Liberality
Diligence
Hope
Valour

Elisabeth Moon -- Divided Allegiance

Most think being a holy warrior means gaining vast arcane powers, that they would be nearly invincible against any foe. But truth is that while Paladin are skilled at fighting, that was the least of their abilities. A quest might involve no fighting at all, or a battle against beings no steel could pierce.

Above all paladins show that courage is possible. It is easy enough to find reasons to give in to evil. War is ugly as many know. But we do not argue that war is better than peace; paladin are not that stupid. It is not peace when cruelty reigns, when stronger men steal from farmers and craftmen., when the child can be enslaved, or the old thrown out to starve, and no one lifts a hand. That is not peace: that is conquest and evil.

Paladins do not start quarrels in peaceful lands, never display their skills to earn applause. But we are the sword of good defending the helpless and teaching by our example that one person can dare greater force to break evil's grasp on the innocent. Sometimes that can be done without fighting, without killing, and that is best.

But some evil needs direct attack, and paladins must be able to do it, and lead others in battle. Wonder why paladins are so likeable? It is important, we come to a town, perhaps, where nothing has gone right for a dozen years. Perhaps there is a temple there and sometimes there is not. The people are frightened, and they have lost trust in each other, in themselves. We may lead them into danger, some will be killed or wounded. Why should they trust us?

Because we are likeable, and other people will follow us willingly. And that's why we are more likely to choose a popular adept as a candidate rather than the best fighters.

Charlemagne's Code of Chivalry (The Song of Roland), duties of the knight:

To fear God and maintain His Church
To serve the liege lord in valour and faith
To protect the weak and defenceless
To give succour to widows and orphans
To refrain from the wanton giving of offence
To live by honour and for glory
To despise pecuniary reward
To fight for the welfare of all
To obey those placed in authority
To guard the honour of fellow knights
To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
To keep faith
At all times to speak the truth
To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
To respect the honour of women
Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
Never to turn the back upon a foe.

Charlemagne's Exhortation, 800 AD:

Love God Almighty with all your heart and all your powers
Love your neighbour as yourself
Give alms to the poor as ye are able
Entertain strangers
Visit the sick
Be merciful to prisoners
Do ill to no man, nor consent unto such as do, for the receiver is as bad as the thief
Forgive as ye hope to be forgiven
Redeem the captive
Help the oppressed
Defend the cause of the widow and orphan
Render righteous judgment
Do not consent to any wrong
Persevere not in wrath
Shun excess in eating and drinking
Be humble and kind
Serve your liege lord faithfully
Do not steal
Do not perjure yourself, nor let others do so
Envy, hatred and violence separate men from the Kingdom of God
Defend the Church and promote her cause.


mdt wrote:
mdt wrote:
Listrana Redblade is a human demigod. She's probably the epitomy of a Paladin herself. She was a LG human Knight, chivelrous to a fault, and a terror on the battlefield. She died while defending her home city during a massive siege by an alliance of monstrous humanoids. However, she was so determined to defend her city, she refused to die for 7 days after taking an arrow through her eyeslit. She fought off wave after wave until she was sure her replacement was ready to take her place, and then she keeled over. Even then though, she couldn't stop fighting, and she self ascended to demigod status. She's the only current god who has done this, the rest who ascended did so through means the elder gods know, and she frankly makes the rest of the gods nervous (even the other LG ones). Her big thing would be defending innocents.

First swipe at Listrana's (probably the most restrictive)

  • A Paladin shall act with compassion, maintain true humility, champion justice and foster hope.
  • A Paladin shall purge from all feelings of hatred, arrogance, selfishness and despair from themselves.
  • A Paladin shall follow the laws of the land, so long as doing so does not violate his code or tenets.
  • A Paladin shall seek to overthrow savagery and chaos wherever it may be found.
  • A Paladin shall defend the weak against the strong.
  • A Paladin shall protect the innocent from the depraved.
  • A Paladin shall not suffer evil, save when they are redeeming one who has fallen, but they shall not suffer evil if that evil is not truly repentant. When asked for mercy, a Paladin shall extend it, but only to one who has not already lied in seeking mercy.
  • A Paladin shall not suffer those who are the essence of Evil, such as Demons and Devils, for they are the enemy of all that is good.
  • A Paladin shall maintain themselves and all their belongings, for they are a symbol of Good and Law, and a slovenly Paladin is an insult to all they stand for.
  • A Paladin does not[/list]...
  • Disclaimer: I like what you are doing and I plan on stealing your ideas. Of course I want to understand the ideas so I am going to ask questions, not as a poster but in the context of a player looking for clarification. I am doing this mostly so that if someone throws these questions at me I will have an answer. Anyone other then MDT feel free to answer also.

    Quote:
    A Paladin shall purge from all feelings of hatred, arrogance, selfishness and despair from themselves.

    Is this a mechanical issue or just an RP thing. How will you(the GM) determine when I(the paladin) have these feelings. If I am hit by a spell such as crushing despair do I have to atone?

    Quote:
    A Paladin shall seek to overthrow savagery and chaos wherever it may be found.

    So if a tribe of savages or chaotic people are minding their own business I have to go and mess with them. What exactly am I expected to do about such a situation?

    Quote:


    A Paladin does not overindulge in any vice, be it drugs, alcahol, or sex. This is not to say that a Paladin may not drink, take medicine, or have sex. But a Paladin must always hold themselves to a higher standard and not behave as a gutter snipe.

    Does this basically mean everything in moderation?

    edit:changed "or" to "are" and "men" to "mean"

    Andoran

    Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I know what I'm playing if I get into your game. :)

    Silver Crusade

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

    Dotting. I love threads like this. I really need to do this for my homebrew too.

    wraithstrike wrote:
    So if a tribe of savages or chaotic people are minding their own business I have to go and mess with them. What exactly am I expected to do about such a situation?

    It could lead to trouble. At the very least it could lead to fun values dissonance to RP. I can't help but think there would be some rules of engagement to prevent things from going ugly by default. If it's just a peaceful chaotic tribe, the paladin is probably just going to be obligated to try and persuade them towards order, or to show them by example. At least that's kind of how I'm figuring it's meant.

    I'm imagining this applying more to rooting out anarchists, vigilantism, mob justice, and the like right now.

    Quote:
    A Paladin shall protect the innocent from the depraved.

    I can't help but suspect that many of these paladins might be very pro-censorship, which could bring them into conflict with any Shelyn-like religions in the setting. Sure it's taking that line to an extreme, but it could be something to play with.

    Played more straight, they'd at the very least they'd be gunning for the likes of Gilles de Rais and Marquis de Sade.


    mdt wrote:

    Yeah, I've never understood the idea of Bast being Chaotic. If you look at cats, they're actually very lawful. They follow specific routines and codes. Bast doesn't go willy nilly all around, she goes in very specific places and in very specific ways. She's wise and inscrutible.

    And riddles are a very lawful type of thing, they follow rules, they have rhyme and meter.

    Actually, as per the pathfinder alignment scales, many qualities a cat symbolizes - independence, flexibility and freedom - are generally considered typical for chaotic alignments. Now, this might be more a matter of symbolism rather than studied behavior - I'm not an expert on cat behavioral patterns - but in human perception, its behavior has made it the symbol for such qualities (or, depending on the interpretation, vices). Remember, chaotic alignments do not mean you can do stuff "just because" without rhyme or reason - it simply means you are more adaptable in your approach. You place people over institutions and the particulars of the current situation over established dogma (whether religious, social or legal). I'd put it as neutral - laws and rules are important, but they must also be flexible and change with the times, or they will simply be empty husks of words or hidey-holes for corruption to hide behind. It might not be the most iconic paladin deity, but Bast sponsors them nonetheless - perhaps as a ploy of her own, perhaps to balance out some of her less discriminating followers, or perhaps because of a divine agreement she made of other deities, pledging to provide for such an order. She is not the kind to give her reasons outright, after all :) .

    So apart from the fact that am partial to having a deity of cats be neutral or chaotic on the law-chaos action, but let's see what we have to work with here. The cat's watchfulness is certainly a lawful-compatible aspect, and its focus on grooming can be interpreted as representative of purification. A lawful society may have an intricate web of "clean" and "unclean" activities that is independent of good or evil. Anything from handling dead flesh to spilling blood or even being wrongly accused or victim of a crime can carry social stigma. This doesn't imply any wrongdoingWhen a speeding car sprays you with mud all over, it's none of your fault - but you should change your clothes and take a bath before going anywhere. Yes, this may cause some situations where the deity's dogma causes situations people today may cause uncomfortable, such as having the mother of a stillborn child undergo a ritual before she can go out of her home - but as they are perceived, they serve a beneficial role, removing from her any stigma that she may face. Bast would thus be a guardian of spiritual well-being, just as she is of mental and physical one. A further lawful idea is to strengthen the community life that holds a society together, and provides a framework of time people can rely on. Overall, though, they would probably keep themselves somewhat aside from the society's structure - it is their duty to be mindful of kings just as they are of paupers, of the revered and of the despised. Even in the most stratified system, they go between and beyond, making sure everything is as it should be.

    One other thing: as LG followers of a LN deity, paladins will likely adhere to a somewhat idealistic and, well, good interpretation of their code. The one we discussed can be fairly LN, and has a general disposition to separate the world between "us" and "not us", with only those on the inside being treated as proscribed. A LG paladin can consider everyone a member of their pride and treat them accordingly - after all, Bast is a goddess to all the world, not just their village or clan. Likewise, they might be a bit more forgiving than the iconic clerics or inquisitors of their faith, both sides often exchanging arguments about how to best achieve the goals of their faith or on the value and even religious appropriateness of mercy or ruthlessness. In the end, Bast tolerates both groups and others beside, even a group of LE cults that see her as vengeful, unforgiving deity that culls the weak and corrupt, and never forgets a slight, planning patiently to repay it tenfold. Sometimes the kittens in the litter don't get along - that is only natural, is it not?


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Mikaze wrote:

    Dotting. I love threads like this. I really need to do this for my homebrew too.

    wraithstrike wrote:
    So if a tribe of savages or chaotic people are minding their own business I have to go and mess with them. What exactly am I expected to do about such a situation?

    It could lead to trouble. At the very least it could lead to fun values dissonance to RP. I can't help but think there would be some rules of engagement to prevent things from going ugly by default. If it's just a peaceful chaotic tribe, the paladin is probably just going to be obligated to try and persuade them towards order, or to show them by example. At least that's kind of how I'm figuring it's meant.

    I'm imagining this applying more to rooting out anarchists, vigilantism, mob justice, and the like right now.

    No problems, happy to answer questions, helps me work out what I mean by the codes. :) Yes, this is not the 'chaotic barbarians must be conquered and civilized'. This is the root out anarchists, vigilanties, stop mob justice, etc. If a tribe of savages is peaceful, then it's their right to live in peace. A Paladin with this code would be perfectly within the code to try to convert them to law though, but not by sword, he'd preach and lead by example. He's not obligated to stay and do so if he has other business to attend to (although I would expect one who's role playing to report the tribe to his church so they can send out a cleric or priest as a missionary). The only time a Paladin would be required to use violence is when there is danger to innocence, etc. So, if said peaceful tribe practiced ritual human sacrifice on children once per year, he'd be obligated to go in and smash them apart, or at least to organize the forces of the church. Missionaries could be sent first, but physical force used to stop the sacrifices would be acceptable. I hope that helps.

    As soon as they start doing things that

    Mikaze wrote:


    Quote:
    A Paladin shall protect the innocent from the depraved.

    I can't help but suspect that many of these paladins might be very pro-censorship, which could bring them into conflict with any Shelyn-like religions in the setting. Sure it's taking that line to an extreme, but it could be something to play with.

    Played more straight, they'd at the very least they'd be gunning for the likes of Gilles de Rais and Marquis de Sade.

    Yeah, Listrana's Paladin's would, at the very least, be a little uncomfortable around brothels and such. I have two goddesses in this world that deal with brothels. Millicivit (Human) and Sintallia (Succubus). Millicivit is NN, and Sintallia is NE. Millicivit is a combination of lust, love and fertility. So, she's just as much worshipped by mothers as she is prostitutes. Her priests and clerics are sometimes also prostitutes. She absolutely hates Sintallia. Sintallia is the S&M goddess (complete with leather whip). Sintallia loves nothing more than fomenting issues with Paladins and Millicivit, corrupting her clergy and ruining her reputation.

    Because Millicivit is also the goddess of love and fertility, Listrana's Paladins would give her and people claiming to worship her the benefit of the doubt. Sintallia's followers would likely be watched like hawks. A temple of Sintallia a Paladin of Listrana would feel perfectly justified in shutting down, by force if necessary. Same with a brothel that had a shrine to her. One of Millicivits... much more gray area.


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    wraithstrike wrote:

    Disclaimer: I like what you are doing and I plan on stealing your ideas. Of course I want to understand the ideas so I am going to ask questions, not as a poster but in the context of a player looking for clarification. I am doing this mostly so that if someone throws these questions at me I will have an answer. Anyone other then MDT feel free to answer also.

    No problem, as I said above, helps me work out that I've got the codes correct.

    wraithstrike wrote:


    Quote:

    A Paladin shall purge from all feelings of hatred, arrogance, selfishness and despair from themselves.

    Is this a mechanical issue or just an RP thing. How will you(the GM) determine when I(the paladin) have these feelings. If I am hit by a spell such as crushing despair do I have to atone?

    It's an RP thing. Spells that force you into things never, in my game, count as things that hurt Paladins. If you get hit by Dominate and get forced to kill an innocent, that's not you choosing to do it. You're no more to blame than the sword is.

    If the player get's angry in game and starts smashing things in character, then the Paladin has lost his temper. If the player throws up his hands and says in character 'We're done for' then the character has given up hope.

    wraithstrike wrote:


    Quote:

    A Paladin shall seek to overthrow savagery and chaos wherever it may be found.

    So if a tribe of savages or chaotic people are minding their own business I have to go and mess with them. What exactly am I expected to do about such a situation?

    Answered above...

    wraithstrike wrote:


    Quote:

    A Paladin does not overindulge in any vice, be it drugs, alcahol, or sex. This is not to say that a Paladin may not drink, take medicine, or have sex. But a Paladin must always hold themselves to a higher standard and not behave as a gutter snipe.

    Does this basically mean everything in moderation?

    Yep, basically, if the Paladin get's drunk, or has a girl in every town (or three) or is hanging out at the temple of Millicivit all the time blowing his money, or he's gambling away his equipment, he's breaking the code.

    It doesn't say he can't have a beer with his friends, or go out on a date (although seeing a prostitute is probably pushing the line), or play a bit of poker with his friends. It says he shouldn't let it become a vice.


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    The Shaman wrote:
    Lots of good stuff

    I'm going to print that out and add it to the back of my book on my gods for my game. :)

    You pretty much nailed it on the head. If you look at mythology, while cats (lower case C) are more neutral, Bast herself is more lawful. She's the queen, she expects obedience from every cat, and they give it without question. Of course, she's smart enough not to ask them to do things they can't do.

    But yes, she would have LE inquisitors in evil temples to her, as well as LG paladins (granted, both are rare). If the kittens squabble, they squabble, that's what kittens do. If they get too rough, mommy will step in and cuff both upside the head and groom both until they calm down. :)

    I can literally see a Paladin of Bast with followers in a battle with an LE Inquisitor and her followers, both sides trying to kill the other for 'heresy', and then a pride of lions leaps out of the forest line, knocks them to the ground and slaps them silly. :)

    Both sides walking home sulking, dragging their swords, and muttering 'But they started it!'. :)

    When a Paladin chooses to follow a LN diety, he's accepting that his Diety is ok with evil, as long as it behaves itself. Cat's are very much creatures of nature. They accept it for what it is. Bast accepts evil, as long as evil plays by the rules. Just like she accepts good, if it plays by the rules. She just get's her self into a snit when they try to break the rules. If the mouse can get away, that's fine. If the mouse pulls a 357 magnum, then that's not ok. :)

    A Paladin is going to interpret Bast's code with a lot of goodness, but I think a Paladin that picks Bast is more worried about protecting his friends, local town, or country. It's more of an internal thing. A Paladin of Bast is not the kind who heads off to foreign lands to defeat great evil. He's the kind who sets out to protect his own lands, to minister to the weak, to protect them, to do great deeds to help his own.

    Nothing wrong with that, and I like the idea of people having an option like that for a Paladin. There's too much emphasis on crusading with the default Paladin, racing off to foreign lands to smash the heretics. There's also need for the Paladins that stay home and keep an eye out for cults and predators at home.


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    I know what I'm playing if I get into your game. :)

    LOL


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    mdt wrote:


    LG/Gormen Greatforge(Dwarf)/Artifice, Fire, Good, Law, Strength/Archon, Ash, Construct, Inevitable, Resolve, Toil

    Ok,

    So, first swipe at Gormen's code. He's a creator, and also very stodgy, so he's going to be pretty lawful (although, given his choice of wife in my campaign, he's going to stay away from things like fidelity to spouses and drunkeness, his head is hard, and he makes all his wife's pots and pans so he can be sure the metal is soft enough to dent when she hits him on the head with it). :)

    Actually, I'll paste in his wife's goddess entry, as it affects his outlook.


    • Hard work is the sign of an ordered mind and healthy body. Never shirk your duty, never put off to tomorrow what you can do today.
    • You are a Paladin, you are the shield and armor that protects those who are weaker than you. Never stop improving the temper of your metal, never be satisfied with what you are, always improve. Improve your body. Improve your gear. Improve your mind.
    • Don't let anyone confuse you with those zealots who seek only to destroy. You make me look bad. A true Paladin knows that destruction is the way of the enemy. Seek to build and create, for there is no surer way to show others that hard work has rewards than to be a creator.
    • Don't let my wife talk you into getting drunk in a bar, you'll wake up without your armor and gear. Don't let her talk you into playing cards either, you'll end up the same way.
    • Don't associate with evil. If evil wants to be redeemed, that's fine, but it's not your job to hold their hand. Give 'em a chance, and cut 'em down if they're trying to fool you.
    • If you say you're going to do something, you better do it! If you can't keep your own oaths, why would you expect anyone to keep theirs to you?
    • Everyone get's afraid, don't let your fear have control. Fear is life's way of letting you know you're alive, use it, don't let it use you.
    • Be honest and forthright, those who traffic in trickery are not true Paladins. Stealth and subterfuge are beneath you, lead by example, not from the shadows.

    Gormen is very much the typical gruff in your face dwarf. Stealth? Trickery? Tactics? Bah, that's stuff for elves (damn elves). Gormen still has trouble remembering the difference between drow and elves, he remembers when they were one people, and to him, they're pretty much the same thing, sneaky pointy eared b****rds who are too smug for their own good. No elven paladins in his crew. :) Not even half-elves. Dwarves have a tendency towards gambling and drink, so he tells his Paladins to avoid that (although it's questionable whether it's because he doesn't approve or whether it's because he's afraid it really will be his wife serving the alcohol or dealing the cards).


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Gormen's wife (for those that are interested). Not your typical dwarf. :)

    Selvaara Flinttankard
    Deep Mother, Ale Mother, Brewmistress

    Alignment: CG
    Power: Demigod
    Symbol: A tankard
    Favored Weapon: Whatever comes to hand (improvised weapons)
    Domains: Charm, Chaos, Good, Knowledge
    Subdomains: Azata, Love, Lust, Protean, Memory
    Worshipers: Dwarves, Alchemists, Brewers, Drunks, Bards
    Credo: Hey love, pass the flagon around again! Hey you, scruffy beard! Get your beard out of my keg! (Sound of wooden tankard smashing on dwarf skull) Hey you lot, clear that table off, Skegly's gonna dance and sing the Ballad of the Lazy Elf Whore! Wha? Credo? Eat, Drink and be merry! That last part means screw like minks, in case you ain't figured it out hon. Now, shut up and drink, we gotta drink up all this ale before it turns sour. Hey Skegly! That's not how that goes, sit down and let someone who knows how to sing get up there! And put your pants back on, nobody wants to see that, you moron!
    Description: Selvaara is out to prove that dwarves do not have to be dour, stodgy old miners. She's a loud, boisterous, lusty, lush of a deity. Every night is a party, and it's time to get on with tonight's. If there's a dirty limerick or tavern song involving a dwarf, she probably wrote it, or laughed at it, one of the two.
    She usually appears as a somewhat plump well endowed dwarf with a tankard of ale in one hand, and a keg under the opposite arm. She has long blonde hair tied up in a ponytail, and usually isn't wearing any shoes (they get in the way of dancing). She doesn't really use any specific real weapon, she usually uses whatever is to hand, be it a tankard, a keg, a frying pan. It's said that Gormen has taken to making all his wife's kitchenware so he can make sure it's soft enough not to dent his head, as it's going to eventually end up hitting him in the forehead. He doesn't appear to mind his wife's infidelities, except when they involve an elf.
    Organization: Selvaara is much too drunk to remember to organize herself a religion. She tends to treat religion much like she treats the use of weapons, just use whatever is handy. This has led to some rather odd clergy over the millenia. She's not nearly as stodgy about elves as her husband is, much to his annoyance. Most of her clergy are alchemists (either by vocation or hobby), and most dwarven brewmasters have small shrines to her.
    Pantheon: Selvaara Flinttankard is a member of the Dwarven Pantheon. She is wife (usually) to Gormen Greatforge.

    Silver Crusade

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

    posting on the go, just wanted to say Good Lord please keep this up :)


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    mdt wrote:


    LG/Sobet(Dragon)/Good, Law, Magic, Nobility, Strength/Arcane, Archon, Azata, Divine, Leadership, Resolve

    Sobet is the mother of all good dragons, and also of neutral dragons (although she doesn't talk about how they came about, considering it's her brother who's the father of all evil and neutral dragons). She hates her brother Hectet. Her Paladins are going to be highly focused on evil dragons and ridding the world of them. So her Paladin code is going to be heavily skewed by that. Paladin's of Sobet are the dragonhunters of the world. Dragons are not like mortals, they don't change alignment easily, there might be a neutral black dragon or 3, but they are the exception, not the rule. So Sobet's code has a lot less flexibility when dealing with enemies. Unlike most Paladins, her Paladins are going to be hoardy. They aren't going to want to part with anything if they can help it. Not because they are selfish, but because they are hoarding against a future battle. Resources make the battle.


    • Know the enemy, for only by knowing their tricks and wiles can you defeat them.
    • Suffer not an evil dragon, for it is an abomination to me, and a danger to all mortals. Root it out and destroy it.
    • Throw not your life away pursuing the evil ones. Be wise enough to know what fights you can win and what fights you cannot.
    • Your oath is your bond, and is my pride. Do not wound my pride.
    • Protect those who are weaker than you, for you are a symbol of what dragons should and can be.
    • Hoard your resources, do not dispense them lightly, for you never know when you will need those resources to battle the evil ones.
    • Hone your body, your mind, and your gear. You will be tested with each new confrontation, do not be found lacking.
    • Suffer not fools, for they will drain your resources. Spend not your resources to rescue a fool from his own foolishness, he has reaped what he sowed.
    • Be not foolish enough to think you can stand on your own, even if you are one of my children. Those who would take you down will often band together, as a wolf pack takes down the mightiest of bears. Nor can a lone wolf take down a bear. Guard those who will guard you, and do not let the evil ones have them.

    In general, dragons are fairly solitary, but Sobet knows her Paladin's will be in the hot stuff a lot more often, and can't survive alone. They will need boon companions. She's also not one to deal with fools much, if someone's stupid enough to get themselves into hot water, she sees no reason anyone should go out of their way to rescue them. That's a waste of resources, since the idiot will just get himself in trouble again and expect you to rescue him a second time, and a third, and so on.

    Sobet's Paladins are very militant, and highly focused on evil dragons. Most of her Paladins are going to be dragon kin (half-dragons, draconic, dragon blooded). I could easily see a lot of them having a level or two of sorcerer (draconic bloodline).


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    mdt wrote:


    NG/Ambergriss(Human)/Good, Healing, Travel, Water/Azata, Restoration, Resurrection, Trade, Oceans

    Ok, Ambergriss is not a god that's going to have a huge amount of Paladins. He's very laid back, very easy going. His code isn't going to be very difficult, and he'll probably be the god I suggest for anyone playing a Paladin that thinks they may have trouble following some of the other gods' codes.


    • Compassion is the most important part of your job, not destroying things. You can't teach those who are dead. Help those who need it, give mercy to those who ask it, and defend those who can't defend themselves from evil.
    • Protect your ship and crew mates, the evils of the world are many, and they need your strength at their side.
    • Don't let evil have a way into your life, don't associate with evil unless you're redeeming it, and be careful not to be tricked by it if you are.
    • Show good by example, not by yelling at people, they won't listen if you're just yelling, but they will watch and remember if you do.
    • Don't lie, cheat or steal. It makes you look like a jerk.


    mdt wrote:

    A Paladin is going to interpret Bast's code with a lot of goodness, but I think a Paladin that picks Bast is more worried about protecting his friends, local town, or country. It's more of an internal thing. A Paladin of Bast is not the kind who heads off to foreign lands to defeat great evil. He's the kind who sets out to protect his own lands, to minister to the weak, to protect them, to do great deeds to help his own.

    Nothing wrong with...

    Overall, I still don't think Bast is nearly as lawful as you make her out... I'm unaware of cats having nearly as complex a social hierarchy as dogs, for example, do. The kittens follow the mother, until they grow up. Then again, I don't have anything against a LG-ish splinter of a normally different faith having its own knightly order - as long as you justify it well.

    In general, I think a paladin of Bast would much rather protect the home than bring fire and brimstone to the heathen, or seek out dragons to slay. It's just that s/he might have fairly loose definition of what "home" is, and consider all the world her oyster. Or litterbox, as the case might be. I can imagine them as traveling minstrels of sorts, snooping out (undercover) abroad for threats to their own community, but also making sure they do the good work wherever they go.

    Btw, when you mentioned prostitution a while ago, it might be a strange idea but I'd think some orders might have fairly leisurely rules on perusing prostitutes, at least to the extent that it doesn't interfere with the paladin's duties. This would obviously depend on how this is viewed in their society - paladins generally adhere to the laws - and if the business is in the hands of criminals, but it might actually be a pretty good match. Remember, as a good character, a paladin would naturally be care for not getting their partner in trouble. However, in many societies, extramarital sex is a serious infraction and gravely punished. A scorned son or dishonored daughter may well be a reason for a blood feud - and even if it is not, things like that can get a woman (or, very rarely, man) in a whole lot of trouble, possibly dooming them to a status of outcast. This is not something a paladin would wish on anyone, least of all someone a lover. They are also agents of a higher order, and may soon be forced to depart to far away or even to certain doom. Marriage is an option, if an expensive route with far-reaching implications, but even then, the paladin's duties prevent them from truly dedicating themselves to their family. Paladins are adventurers, after all, and people of duty - and every day it might lead to their death. Paladins might not rush to their deaths, but they seldom run away if a sacrifice is needed - but as married men and women, they make it a sacrifice of their families as well. If you are going to be the kind of family man that walks out to his death tomorrow - even if it is for the good of all - are you really good for your family? Why not leave it to someone who actually WOULD care for their spouse and children till Death does them part? Even if all the town sings your praises, you are leaving your loved one a widow(er) and your children orphans - which is, to put it mildly, irresponsible. Sure, lesser men might be eager to consummate their love without any care of what would happen to their loved ones later - but you are a paladin, and you should care about all good people, especially your beloved.

    If you find true love that overcomes all, fine enough - but in the meantime, a lot of good, honest and well-meaning paladins find sleeping on their own a somewhat unpleasant prospect, but do not feel able or willing to have a socially appropriate relationship. Prostitution, which is a compensated service that brings no (further) dishonor to their partner and no further obligation on the part of the paladin, might actually be the most ethical option for a paladin to get some intimate companionship and sexual release. In fact, adventurers in general, with their risky lifestyles, low life expectancy and high level of disposable cash, might be among the most fitting patrons of the red lights districts, and for good reason.


    The Shaman wrote:
    mdt wrote:

    A Paladin is going to interpret Bast's code with a lot of goodness, but I think a Paladin that picks Bast is more worried about protecting his friends, local town, or country. It's more of an internal thing. A Paladin of Bast is not the kind who heads off to foreign lands to defeat great evil. He's the kind who sets out to protect his own lands, to minister to the weak, to protect them, to do great deeds to help his own.

    Nothing wrong with...

    Overall, I still don't think Bast is nearly as lawful as you make her out... I'm unaware of cats having nearly as complex a social hierarchy as dogs, for example, do. The kittens follow the mother, until they grow up. Then again, I don't have anything against a LG-ish splinter of a normally different faith having its own knightly order - as long as you justify it well.

    In general, I think a paladin of Bast would much rather protect the home than bring fire and brimstone to the heathen, or seek out dragons to slay. It's just that s/he might have fairly loose definition of what "home" is, and consider all the world her oyster. Or litterbox, as the case might be. I can imagine them as traveling minstrels of sorts, snooping out (undercover) abroad for threats to their own community, but also making sure they do the good work wherever they go.

    Btw, when you mentioned prostitution a while ago, it might be a strange idea but I'd think some orders might have fairly leisurely rules on perusing prostitutes, at least to the extent that it doesn't interfere with the paladin's duties. This would obviously depend on how this is viewed in their society - paladins generally adhere to the laws - and if the business is in the hands of criminals, but it might actually be a pretty good match. Remember, as a good character, a paladin would naturally be care for not getting their partner in trouble. However, in many societies, extramarital sex is a serious infraction and gravely punished. A scorned son or dishonored daughter may well be a reason for a blood...

    I submit that mdt's Bast might be exactly as lawful as mdt makes her out to be. It's a homebrew campaign.


    Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    The Shaman wrote:


    In general, I think a paladin of Bast would much rather protect the home than bring fire and brimstone to the heathen, or seek out dragons to slay. It's just that s/he might have fairly loose definition of what "home" is, and consider all the world her oyster. Or litterbox, as the case might be. I can imagine them as traveling minstrels of sorts, snooping out (undercover) abroad for threats to their own community, but also making sure they do the good work wherever they go.

    Oh, some will. These are generalities I speak of. 95% of Bast's Paladins will be more concerned with a single town, a single country, a single clan. But some will be concerned with a single continent, a single world. All of them will be protecting home, it's just that some have bigger ideas of what home are than others.

    The Shaman wrote:


    Btw, when you mentioned prostitution a while ago, it might be a strange idea but I'd think some orders might have fairly leisurely rules on perusing prostitutes, at least to the extent that it doesn't interfere with the paladin's duties. This would obviously depend on how this is viewed in their society - paladins generally adhere to the laws - and if the business is in the hands of criminals, but it might actually be a pretty good match. Remember, as a good character, a paladin would naturally be care for not getting their partner in trouble. However, in many societies, extramarital sex is a serious infraction and gravely punished. A scorned son or dishonored daughter may well be a reason for a blood feud - and even if it is not, things like that can get a woman (or, very rarely, man) in a whole lot of trouble, possibly dooming them to a status of outcast. This is not something a paladin would wish on anyone, least of all someone a lover. They are also agents of a higher order, and may soon be forced to depart to far away or even to certain doom. Marriage is an option, if an expensive route with far-reaching implications, but even then, the paladin's duties prevent them from truly dedicating themselves to their family. Paladins are adventurers, after all, and people of duty - and every day it might lead to their death. Paladins might not rush to their deaths, but they seldom run away if a sacrifice is needed - but as married men and women, they make it a sacrifice of their families as well. If you are going to be the kind of family man that walks out to his death tomorrow - even if it is for the good of all - are you really good for your family? Why not leave it to someone who actually WOULD care for their spouse and children till Death does them part? Even if all the town sings your praises, you are leaving your loved one a widow(er) and your children orphans - which is, to put it mildly, irresponsible. Sure, lesser men might be eager to consummate their love without any care of what would happen to their loved ones later - but you are a paladin, and you should care about all good people, especially your beloved.

    That's also more of a god by god thing. Ambergriss isn't going to care one way or the other, as long as it's not forced prostitution. Alcienea doesn't care as long as it's legal wherever it's going on. Bast could care less (cat's don't think about things like that). Gormen withholds judgement, mainly to avoid getting hit by a frying pan. :) Sobet, being draconic, and we all know how dragons tend to spread around their blood to other races, could care less. Kom's a nature god, sex is natural, any stupid rules humans put around it don't count.

    Listrana, on the other hand, prefers her paladin's celibate, but if she can't have that, then married and with their wives. Sincala and Sithana are opposed to prostitution on general principles, but non-paid coupling is pretty much ok with both of them.

    Most Paladins are going to have issues with cheating on a spouse, because that's lieing for personal gain. Now, if the spouse approves of the extramarital activity, then only Listrana would have an issue with it.

    As to the argument about your job being dangerous and not being with your family, that's true of just about any job. You certainly wouldn't say that the town guard should never marry, nor should any soldier? Doctors are exposed to diseases, they should not marry? It's something for each individual to consider, but as a hard rule, I don't see any god saying "Don't have kids and raise more people to worship me". :)


    Sure, a few deities might not be very fond of it. However, in many societies it can be an option, and in fact possibly the least problematic one for conscientious characters who nevertheless do not want to repress their urges all the time.

    Regarding adventures, they are by default the ones go above and beyond the norm when it comes to living risky. Death-defying stunts and endangering your body and soul are part and parcel of their "job." It might make them famous, but I'd say they might not necessarily make the best role models you'd want for your kids, or the best suitors for your daughters/sons.

    Now, the vast majority of the adventuring profession might not be so conscientious about this, but the fact is that they tend to be a rather daredevil sort, often not adhering to what is "normal" in society, and often come up with crazy schemes that occasionally leave them rich - and at least as often, leave them penniless. I'm just saying that kind of people might not necessarily be the best candidates for long-term relationships. It's not really a big thing, just something I remembered arguing about before.


    Not all paladins are adventurers. I am sure that paladins of Listrana would be splitting their time praying with the temple monks (priest-monks, not monk-monks) and beating the hell out of the city guard to make them look less like pansies when the time comes to defend the women and children.

    "By the Red Blade, I don't know whether to put you maggots in a tabard and mail or a dress and bonnett! Let me know who is defending who, ladies!"

    Grand Lodge

    I'm going to put out there that trying to restrict the feelings of paladins is a bad idea, the Jedi did this and look where it got them. You can put codes in that tell them to not make decisions when afflicted by hate or rage. Basically telling them to go and calm down before making decisions they might regret.

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