Asmodean Advocate, Profession: Barrister, in Cheliax.
Draft up a lengthy, twisting contract in game, hidden within is tangled legalese that victimizes the NPC signee.
What check would the NPC signee need to make to recognize the deceit?
Profession: Barrister? A Wisdom Check? Perception? Knowledge: Local (because laws?)
Is it an opposed check, Asmodean Advocate Bluff vs. ????
So I'm not sure what your question is.
Are you asking to use Profession(barrister) to draft a contract, lets say you roll a 20. You're wondering what check would be necessary for the potential signee to read and recognize that the contract is unfair?
Well, this could probably go a couple different ways.
If the person asks you, it would be a bluff check on your part and would normally be opposed by sense motive.
If they're trying to find the unfair nature of the contract by reading it...I'm not sure. To be honest, I'm not sure how you could even write the contract to be unfair without cursory readings revealing confusing legal jargon. If a person is worried about being taken advantage of I think they probably would be worried about any confusing passages they don't understand.
Honestly, it's a bit confusing.
Based on this trait I'd go with sense motive. Probably opposed by Profession(Barrister) if they're reading the contract.
It would be a profession Check vs whatever D.C. the GM feels is appropriate to draft the contract.
Think of it opposite- What Check should a Player make to detect treachery in a document?
If they are trying to decipher the complex legal loopholes then its an opposed Barrister check yours made when the contract is drafted thus setting the DC. However it might not just be a matter of beating it even coming close might reveal something fishy just not everything.
If they are questioning your about the contract and having you explain meanings. Bluff which thankfully for the advocate is still barrister for them.
If they are questioning your about the contract and having you explain meanings. Bluff which thankfully for the advocate is still barrister for them.
Yes, but they have a much better chance of having Sense Motive than they are likely to have Profession(Barrister).
Admittedly, the whole thing can probably be avoided by reading the contract, and if it's written with a whole bunch or jargon and you don't easily understand it you refuse to sign until you can have someone you trust take a look at it. I mean do you really sign important contracts without taking the time to understand them, especially when its someone who is obviously evil if you take the time to look?
Depends on how bad I need the contract and how high my int/wis are. I mean if everyone was smart enough to keep from getting caught in these loopholes there wouldn't be a market.
OK, so you all can see the reason why I am asking. It is not clear at all.
All over the various Cheliax / Asmodean source materials it goes on about deceitfully complex contracts, legal tanglings and treachery through loopholes (that were obviously not discovered before signing.)
Since I am making one of these Barristers dedicated to just that, and plan on using contracts throughout the game (sometimes to deceive), I want to know ahead of time the mechanism for checking and possibly discovering my chicanery.
But it seems the rule mechanism for this is not clear - so this may need to be a DM question instead.
According to
A DC 25 Linguistics check is enough to confirm that the contract has no hidden clauses that could be used against the PCs.
I suggest using the same thing although the DC would probably be lower. Reason for the DC possibly being lower for your application:
Thank you, Gauss - at least some reference somewhere is found!
Interesting. I like that, especially since Linguistics is a trained-only skill. Makes my goal to use these that much easier.
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Though, the mechanics used sometime in an ooooold adventure path aren't the strongest possible foundation for a rules call. If there weren't clear rules for something, adventure paths sometimes just make something up.
Linguistics is certainly used to detect (and craft) forgeries, so it's close to this task.